and the mac Mini M2 is pretty amazing, so you'll get that secondary benefit also :-D
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Surface Devices
- Thread starter Dave245
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm not sure if this was mentioned: Panos Panay, leader of the Surface and Windows teams, is leaving Microsoft
If I was grading his performance, I would rate him a D minus. I think MSFT had so many opportunities to succeed with the Surface but shot themselves in the foot, either because of poor design choices, poor marketing, and/or poor pricing decisions.
While the Surface line may be successful in some respects I think it could have been more so
If I was grading his performance, I would rate him a D minus. I think MSFT had so many opportunities to succeed with the Surface but shot themselves in the foot, either because of poor design choices, poor marketing, and/or poor pricing decisions.
While the Surface line may be successful in some respects I think it could have been more so
I saw that and don't quite really know what to think. I agree with the poor choices but he was the only person I would put up there with Steve Jobs on presentation of keynotes and I could tell he really cared but I am interested to see what comes out next. Since they are having a Surface event in a few days and he leaves right before it makes me curious if maybe he didn't agree with the new changes coming, which might be a good thing.
Yep the surface line was 10 out of 10 for innovation but always 6 out of 10 for implementation as most were nerfed by some poor hardware option's
Yeah - apparently to work for Amazon in their devices division ....Panos Panay has left MicrosoftI thought Surface was his baby
Seems like not anymore and money talks...Panos Panay has left Microsoft
Q-6
I'm not sure he's a good fit for Amazon, I think with all his passion he would have been good at Apple.
MacBook Pro M2 Max is getting burned right now om GPU rendering... Kinda surprised they decided to outright attack the MacBook like that.
Looks like there will be a lot less Surface products going forward, with many planned already cancelled:
Report: Microsoft is Refocusing its Surface Business on More Popular Form Factors
Speculating he was offered a decent amount more and possibly dissatisfied with MS at the same time.
Q-6
If the reports of Microsoft scaling back on products is true (apparently they cut Duo 3, Surface Studio 3 and so on) then I can understand why he's decided to leave. It seems like no one wants service devices, Duo has been a flop and most people buy iPad's over Surface Pros. All in all I'm surprised Microsoft haven't just stopped Surface altogether, I suspect the only reason they haven't is because it's worth around 2 Billion!!
The core devices are ok - Surface Pro and Surface Laptop are pretty solid offerings, if a bit pricy and usually with quite dated internals from release. The Go products are just bad though. They were built to hit a price point and there's so much compromise - bad plastic chassis, eMMC storage, low resolution displays. It cheapens Surface as a halo brand.
The Laptop Studio is also worse than the Surface Book, and should never have been allowed to replace it. Unlike the Surface book it does little any other 360 convertible can't do, and at a way higher price. If the above article is true, that's the right thing for the brand. IMO ditch the Laptop studio and bring back the Surface Book, drop the Go products and focus on Surface Pro, Surface Laptop and Surface Book. Keep them up to date internally and refresh the designs (thinner bezels etc) every 4-5 years, as Apple does with the MacBook Pro.
The Surface studio is a weird one, it's a good product by all accounts, but WAY too expensive, and could do with using proper desktop parts. I think it could have a place in the lineup if they could address that.
While Surface devices were aspirational, originally conceived to illustrate what could be done in the 2in1 space. They have suffered from weak performance and high pricing without the following Apple has. The major OEM's now know how to design & produce good 2in1's with quality and reasonable pricing.
TBH I think MS should focus on Surface being MS and stop trying to compete with Apple. Most definitely stop with the comparisons as they nearly always backfire. MS needs some standout products unique to it's brand Surface and Surface Book accomplished this to some extents. Regular notebooks just dont see it as there is a literal sea of well designed offerings on the market place at far better pricing...
Q-6
The head of the division just got s***canned (I mean he 'resigned')? The Go is now business-only? Half the projects have been discontinued? I've unfortunately been on this ride before.
We're witnessing Microsoft doing to Surface what they did to their phone line. They'll keep it around with fewer and fewer products, slowly suffocating it while publicly stating "Oh we're totally still committed to Surface" right up until they finally, quietly, kill it for good.
They just can't help themselves. Any time they make something good, they have to destroy it while giving a big middle finger to the fans they created.
Having said that, maybe I'll find a way to snag a Surface Go 4. Two more cores and an 256gb SSD is a nice upgrade, even if I did wish there was more RAM. Unlike my Zune and my Windows Phones, it won't become a paperweight when Microsoft gives up on it.
We're witnessing Microsoft doing to Surface what they did to their phone line. They'll keep it around with fewer and fewer products, slowly suffocating it while publicly stating "Oh we're totally still committed to Surface" right up until they finally, quietly, kill it for good.
They just can't help themselves. Any time they make something good, they have to destroy it while giving a big middle finger to the fans they created.
Having said that, maybe I'll find a way to snag a Surface Go 4. Two more cores and an 256gb SSD is a nice upgrade, even if I did wish there was more RAM. Unlike my Zune and my Windows Phones, it won't become a paperweight when Microsoft gives up on it.
Is like that in many big corporations. I walked away and far happier for it, lot more to life than $$$. If your a visionary constrained by the bookkeepers your going to go sooner or later as they lack your vision that pays their wage...
Q-6
Surface devices originally were created to show OEM's on what a Windows Halo device could/should be (to force them to up their game, quality and offerings) and to push Windows on new form factors and in new forms.
That is unfortunately no longer desired/wanted by their leadership for the most part.
Lots of good people which worked on consumer devices and services left Microsoft - it't just not a priority for them and it shows. Balmer made many mistakes, but it was a fun and innovative time with my Nokia Lumias (Windows Phone), Zune and Co.
As usual with Microsoft, lots of good ideas, but the execution and especially the (longer term) comitment is lacking.
I think Surface's future heavily depends on these 2 factors:
CPU
1) Can the Qualcom/Nuvia "Oryon" ARM CPUs finally deliver high performance?
2) Can Intel 15Gen? CPUs finally deliver on efficeny and battery life improvemenets to match their performance + can they be cooled down enough?
3) Do they start to work again with AMD in this space (after all Xbox works well) and then can they offer good performance/efficeny/battery life?
OS
1) Windows vNext (aka Windows "12") is - again - supposed to be a modular OS/offering.
From a lightweight ChromeOS like "EdgeOS" (educations, low spec devices) up to the full fledged "classic" Windows Pro/Enterprise/iOT versions you know and love/hate - all infused with their AI stuff like Copilot and more.
If the rumors are true: RIP to a Surface Pro Mini/11 inch...
Don't think I will ever get a compact small form factor Windows tablet/2-1...
So many cancelled attemps, both OS and device wise...
2014~ Nokia Lumia 2020 (WinRT)
2014~ Surface Mini (WinRT)
2017-2020 AndromedaOS > 10X > unfortunately turned into an Android device (Duo) and never launched (Neo)
2023+ Surface Pro Mini/11 inch
That is unfortunately no longer desired/wanted by their leadership for the most part.
Lots of good people which worked on consumer devices and services left Microsoft - it't just not a priority for them and it shows. Balmer made many mistakes, but it was a fun and innovative time with my Nokia Lumias (Windows Phone), Zune and Co.
As usual with Microsoft, lots of good ideas, but the execution and especially the (longer term) comitment is lacking.
I think Surface's future heavily depends on these 2 factors:
CPU
1) Can the Qualcom/Nuvia "Oryon" ARM CPUs finally deliver high performance?
2) Can Intel 15Gen? CPUs finally deliver on efficeny and battery life improvemenets to match their performance + can they be cooled down enough?
3) Do they start to work again with AMD in this space (after all Xbox works well) and then can they offer good performance/efficeny/battery life?
OS
1) Windows vNext (aka Windows "12") is - again - supposed to be a modular OS/offering.
From a lightweight ChromeOS like "EdgeOS" (educations, low spec devices) up to the full fledged "classic" Windows Pro/Enterprise/iOT versions you know and love/hate - all infused with their AI stuff like Copilot and more.
If the rumors are true: RIP to a Surface Pro Mini/11 inch...
Don't think I will ever get a compact small form factor Windows tablet/2-1...
So many cancelled attemps, both OS and device wise...
2014~ Nokia Lumia 2020 (WinRT)
2014~ Surface Mini (WinRT)
2017-2020 AndromedaOS > 10X > unfortunately turned into an Android device (Duo) and never launched (Neo)
2023+ Surface Pro Mini/11 inch
An update on my Mac adventure... I had it for two days and returned it...
There was nothing wrong with it but I just couldn't find a a good use for it. We just moved into a new house and for the first time I had my own game/computer room to furnish and wanted a desktop setup which I originally planned to do with a $1000 gift card, by buying the Surface Dock, a monitor and just using my laptop connected to it and a screen with a mouse and keyboard. Well apparently, I am stupid to assume that a $249 would have an HDMI port, so I bought that and a Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse. Get home and start setting everything up to realize there isn't an HDMI port... So I went back to Best Buy and bought a USB-C to HDMI adapter but while waiting for a sales rep to help out, I went to the Mac section and played around with the Mac Mini and was curious about the M2 Chip. Went home and hooked everything up and did some more research on the Mac Mini and it tickled my fancy enough that I decided to return the Surface Dock and buy the Mac Mini to use as the Desktop and I could still connect my Surface if I wanted to with the adapter.
Well I made a mistake by assuming that the Microsoft Wireless Keyboard and Mouse with a USB adapter would not work on the Mini, so I bought a $79 Bluetooth keyboard which was way overpriced and was advertised specifically "for a Mac" also and went home. Well for the life of me I could not get the keyboard to work during setup, so I just decided to throw a hail Mary and put the Microsoft USB Wireless dongle in and slap me silly, because it detected it right away. So I was going to have to go Back to Best Buy and return the Keyboard and spent the night thinking and realizing I really didn't have any use for the Mini and instead of buying things for my current equipment, I got that feeling you get with free $1000 money and being in an electronic store... "Why buy stuff for my old things when I can just buy some new things!" So I decided to return the Mac Mini as well and came up with a much better idea.
So now with that $1000 gift card I got a Monitor, wireless keyboard and mouse. A $70 USB-C hub that DOES have an HDMI port that I can just hook up to my Surface. Realizing I still had quite a bit of money left, I also decided to buy upgrade my Xbox series S to an Xbox series X since I have a 4k TV that i couldn't utilize with the Series S
All in all, I feel pretty content about it and am enjoying some Starfield in all it's 4k glory. Oh and also the new house... =)
There was nothing wrong with it but I just couldn't find a a good use for it. We just moved into a new house and for the first time I had my own game/computer room to furnish and wanted a desktop setup which I originally planned to do with a $1000 gift card, by buying the Surface Dock, a monitor and just using my laptop connected to it and a screen with a mouse and keyboard. Well apparently, I am stupid to assume that a $249 would have an HDMI port, so I bought that and a Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse. Get home and start setting everything up to realize there isn't an HDMI port... So I went back to Best Buy and bought a USB-C to HDMI adapter but while waiting for a sales rep to help out, I went to the Mac section and played around with the Mac Mini and was curious about the M2 Chip. Went home and hooked everything up and did some more research on the Mac Mini and it tickled my fancy enough that I decided to return the Surface Dock and buy the Mac Mini to use as the Desktop and I could still connect my Surface if I wanted to with the adapter.
Well I made a mistake by assuming that the Microsoft Wireless Keyboard and Mouse with a USB adapter would not work on the Mini, so I bought a $79 Bluetooth keyboard which was way overpriced and was advertised specifically "for a Mac" also and went home. Well for the life of me I could not get the keyboard to work during setup, so I just decided to throw a hail Mary and put the Microsoft USB Wireless dongle in and slap me silly, because it detected it right away. So I was going to have to go Back to Best Buy and return the Keyboard and spent the night thinking and realizing I really didn't have any use for the Mini and instead of buying things for my current equipment, I got that feeling you get with free $1000 money and being in an electronic store... "Why buy stuff for my old things when I can just buy some new things!" So I decided to return the Mac Mini as well and came up with a much better idea.
So now with that $1000 gift card I got a Monitor, wireless keyboard and mouse. A $70 USB-C hub that DOES have an HDMI port that I can just hook up to my Surface. Realizing I still had quite a bit of money left, I also decided to buy upgrade my Xbox series S to an Xbox series X since I have a 4k TV that i couldn't utilize with the Series S
All in all, I feel pretty content about it and am enjoying some Starfield in all it's 4k glory. Oh and also the new house... =)
Last edited:
Just switch between macOS & Windows as needs be. 2011 15" MBP is our media server, soon to be 12 years young. Asus is the primary PC, M1 MBP takes care of Mac heavy lifting duties and an Acer 2in1 fulfils the tablet need with a desktop OS.
The 2016 Surface Book is still alive and kicking and still gets the job done for basic tasks, dents and all
Q-6
The 2016 Surface Book is still alive and kicking and still gets the job done for basic tasks, dents and all
Q-6
I can't speak for the Go tablets, but I picked up a Laptop Go 2 a few weeks ago and quite like it - for the price point it's more than acceptable, and since Apple doesn't make a 12" ultraportable Mac anymore it filled a niche for me.