Using Tiger in 2013

[gojaguars]

Greetings to everyone.

I'm currently on a white 2010 MacBook but I am a previous owner of a PowerBook G4 15-inch (2005). A friend of mine is selling a Core 2 Duo 17-inch MacBook Pro from 2006 in mint condition for $370. I am very interested in buying it because it comes with Tiger, which was always my favorite Mac OS X release.

I know that it could be a bit difficult to use 10.4 in 2013 because Apple has long abandoned this OS. However, I was wondering if, perhaps, there was someone here who would know just how usable (or unusable) Tiger would be today.

What I mean is that I would be extremely grateful to find out the answers to these questions:

1. What is the latest version of Safari that can be installed on Tiger? Can it support modern YouTube and websites?
2. If not, what other modern browsers could be installed?
3. Will I be able to have the Classic environment or will I be forced to rely on Rosetta?
4. What is the latest version of Microsoft Office that could be installed? I have a student's license of Office 2011 that allows me to install my copy on 3 Macs.
5. I know that waiting for 10.4.12 is pointless but does Apple still release any updates at all for 10.4.11? Security fixes etc.?

I do apologize if my post appears to be silly for some but I would appreciate any feedback. Of course, running Tiger in 2013 is absurd but the nostalgia of my old PowerBook G4 is killing me

Thank you for reading.

 

[AQUADock]

1. Safari 4.1.3 but it may struggle rendering some websites.
2. Almost any other web browser that is supported by tiger will be the same as safari. If you must you could try camino.
3. You can use sheepshaver for OS 9.
4. You can only install office 2008 on tiger 2011 doesn't work.
5. No I think they stopped releasing security updates in 2009.

Overall in just makes much more sense to run mountain lion. You could however install snow leopard and theme it to look like tiger I could help you in that if you want.

 

[Intell]

I very much advise against running Intell Tiger or Leopard. They are both very outdated and are full of security holes.

 

[gojaguars]

1. Safari 4.1.3 but it may struggle rendering some websites.
2. Almost any other web browser that is supported by tiger will be the same as safari. If you must you could try camino.
3. You can use sheepshaver for OS 9.
4. You can only install office 2008 on tiger 2011 doesn't work.
5. No I think they stopped releasing security updates in 2009.

Overall in just makes much more sense to run mountain lion. You could however install snow leopard and theme it to look like tiger I could help you in that if you want.

Thank you for such a rapid response. I honestly didn't think Tiger had so many compatibility problems already. I've used Camino on my PowerBook G4 and it was decent but the speed was too slow. Perhaps Camino on Intel would be better?

I very much advise against running Intell Tiger or Leopard. They are both very outdated and are full of security holes.

Thank you for the advice. I'll read more about this.

 

[AQUADock]

Thank you for such a rapid response. I honestly didn't think Tiger had so many compatibility problems already. I've used Camino on my PowerBook G4 and it was decent but the speed was too slow. Perhaps Camino on Intel would be better?



Thank you for the advice. I'll read more about this.

It would be faster but not as fast as a newer browser.

 

[benwiggy]

I am very interested in buying it because it comes with Tiger, which was always my favorite Mac OS X release.

One shouldn't argue over matters of taste, of course, but can I ask: what particularly about Tiger is it that you find so advantageous, that is not in Leopard or later releases?

Leopard was objectively a significant improvement in features, functions and underlying technologies. Not least of which is Time Machine, allowing automated backups. I would advise anyone to upgrade for that alone.
There's also QuickLook preview images in the Finder, Spotlight searching and a host of other features.

It also includes under-the-hood technologies, like 64-bit, CoreAnimation and others which are essential for modern applications. This is why so many up-to-date apps don't work on Tiger.

Having used every version of OS X since 10.2, I would say that much of the general user experience is still the same, though there are substantial new features and changes. (I had to use a Snow Leopard Mac the other day and was surprised how much I couldn't do that I had got used to in ML.) Unless there is an actual bug or lack of specific framework for some required app or workflow, I can't think of a reason for staying with such an old OS.

One point from your questions:
3. Classic mode and Rosetta are not the same. Classic emulation allows PPC Macs to run apps written for OS 9 or earlier. Rosetta allows Intel Macs to run PPC code for written for OS X. Classic doesn't work on Intel Macs, but there is Sheepshaver, a third-party emulator. However, my advice is to seek up-to-date versions of your apps that are compatible with your OS.
Once you start relying on "vintage" apps and ancient OSes on older hardware, then you run the risk of something failing that cannot be replaced easily. If you make sure that your work can be continued on a new computer with new software, then you are set for ever.

 

[gojaguars]

One shouldn't argue over matters of taste, of course, but can I ask: what particularly about Tiger is it that you find so advantageous, that is not in Leopard or later releases?

Leopard was objectively a significant improvement in features, functions and underlying technologies. Not least of which is Time Machine, allowing automated backups. I would advise anyone to upgrade for that alone.
There's also QuickLook preview images in the Finder, Spotlight searching and a host of other features.

It also includes under-the-hood technologies, like 64-bit, CoreAnimation and others which are essential for modern applications. This is why so many up-to-date apps don't work on Tiger.

Having used every version of OS X since 10.2, I would say that much of the general user experience is still the same, though there are substantial new features and changes. (I had to use a Snow Leopard Mac the other day and was surprised how much I couldn't do that I had got used to in ML.) Unless there is an actual bug or lack of specific framework for some required app or workflow, I can't think of a reason for staying with such an old OS.

One point from your questions:
3. Classic mode and Rosetta are not the same. Classic emulation allows PPC Macs to run apps written for OS 9 or earlier. Rosetta allows Intel Macs to run PPC code for written for OS X. Classic doesn't work on Intel Macs, but there is Sheepshaver, a third-party emulator. However, my advice is to seek up-to-date versions of your apps that are compatible with your OS.
Once you start relying on "vintage" apps and ancient OSes on older hardware, then you run the risk of something failing that cannot be replaced easily. If you make sure that your work can be continued on a new computer with new software, then you are set for ever.

Hello. Oh, I understand perfectly your point of view. Of course, Tiger lacks many features that are available in Leopard/SL, much like Lion lacks features from Mountain Lion. My feelings towards 10.4 are purely nostalgic.

About Classic vs. Rosetta. I know they are not the same. In my question I was trying to find out if I could run older PPC apps on Intel or if I was only stuck with OS X apps for PPC via Rosetta. Thank you for clarification on the matter

Oh, well. The lack of security updates and incompatibility with Office 2011 is why I'll still get the MacBook Pro but will install Snow Leopard instead.

Thanks to everybody for the responses.

 

[valdikor]

will install Snow Leopard instead.

Are you depending on any Rosetta apps? If not, what are your reasons to "jump" to Snow Leopard and not straight to Mountain Lion which will run perfectly fine on the MBP? Why resist progress?

 

[MichaelLAX]

About Classic vs. Rosetta. I know they are not the same. In my question I was trying to find out if I could run older PPC apps on Intel or if I was only stuck with OS X apps for PPC via Rosetta. Thank you for clarification on the matter

For further clarification:

If it is running PPC Tiger, it can have the Classic Environment activated, which, if installed, will run OS 9 in a separate window. This is not available in Intel Tiger.

Intel Tiger will have Rosetta installed automatically to run PowerPC apps.

Further information on SheepShaver and its cousin Chubby Bunny, which will run Classic apps on Intel, check out my posting here

 

[Drew017]

OP just to clarify…

- The highest version of Mac OS X this particular MacBook Pro can run is OS X Lion (Not Mountain Lion as has been stated) However I don't recommend using this OS… if you were going to upgrade you should upgrade to Mac OS X Snow leopard

- I totally understand your feelings of nostalgia towards Tiger, because I started off with Panther on my old PPC iBook, then went to Tiger. However, it's probably not wise to use it as your main OS. Tiger has stability, security issues, and many features in the OS aren't present that are in OS X currently (especially Time machine)

- I would recommend that if you were to get this machine, you dual boot it with Snow Leopard, so you can get use out of it, then boot back into Tiger once in a while or whatever so you can satisfy your desire to use it.

 

[ironjaw]

I'm writing this on my iBook G4 12" that I bought back in September 2003. It's running Tiger 10.4.11 and using Camino Browser with flash, ads and Java turned off. You could say that I feel nostalgic because I took it out today after 3 years in storage.

It was my very first Mac. I used it through two universities, writing so many essays, letters, dissertations during late nights. I've listening to music in iTunes and installed Tiger 10.4 for the first time after the grand opening of the Apple Store in Birmingham Bullring. I've toiled through sweat and tears with my iBook G4. I can't tell you how many times I've slightly burned myself on its wristpad but whatever its flaws, yes it's outdated, I know that but the form factor of the 12" and Tiger being simple, no gestures, or being overcomplicated just makes it feel perfect. It has a special place in my heart.

 

[AlbertEinstein]

Having been stuck with Tiger on a G4 Cube once my iMac failed i can only bring praise to that OS.

 

[128keaton]

Having been stuck with Tiger on a G4 Cube once my iMac failed i can only bring praise to that OS.

Amen to the Cubes! I have one running 10.3/OS 9. I plan to 'tiger' it soon though.

 

[MichaelLAX]

I once installed Intel Tiger into VMWare Fusion 2.0 and it worked. However, Fusion 2.0 will only run on Snow Leopard and not in Lion and presumably then, not in Mt. Lion.

The instructions for installing Tiger came from this German blog, before he password protected his blog. I have his email address somewhere if someone wants to contact him about this project (send me a private message).

The blog claims it will work in Fusion 4.0, but he admitted to me that he had only installed Tiger in VMWar Fusion 2 (which I then purchased on eBay).

[click on image to enlarge]

 

[MacAndrew07]

At my college there are over 200 PowerMac G4's quicksilvers all running Tiger 10.4.11 with FCP, the big problem is finding a decent browser for the PPC and Tiger

 

[MichaelLAX]

At my college there are over 200 PowerMac G4's quicksilvers all running Tiger 10.4.11 with FCP, the big problem is finding a decent browser for the PPC and Tiger

Why not just accept that these are editing stations and use a more modern Mac for more modern activities? Network them to the extent that you need to obtain content from the internet to edit. Screen sharing (VNC) can allow you to actually control the more modern Mac from the PPC Mac.

 

[647156]

At my college there are over 200 PowerMac G4's quicksilvers all running Tiger 10.4.11 with FCP, the big problem is finding a decent browser for the PPC and Tiger

What's wrong with TenFourFox? It's the latest version of Firefox, made compatible with PPC and 10.4/10.5 since Mozilla stopped supporting them.

As fort virtualising Tiger if you want access to it without running it natively, it's actually very straightforward now with the improvements that VMware have made to OS X support in more recent releases, even though VMware have actually only ever officially supported 10.5 and higher. I've got unmodified Tiger Server 10.4.11 (installed from the Universal Tiger Server 10.4.7 DVD - all other Tiger discs are either PPC-only or machine-specific) running in VMware Workstation 9 (same codebase as Fusion 5) - all you need to do is patch VMware to unlock the native OS X support if using VMware Workstation or Player on Windows (as the support for OS X is only officially available in for OS X, but they share the same codebase so it is there in all versions), then boot up a VM from the Tiger Server 10.4.7 DVD. I believe Tiger may not work if your underlying processor is Sandy Bridge or newer though, this is on a first-generation Core i5.

 

[MichaelLAX]

... all you need to do is patch VMware to unlock the native OS X support if using VMware Workstation or Player on Windows (as the support for OS X is only officially available in for OS X, but they share the same codebase so it is there in all versions), then boot up a VM from the Tiger Server 10.4.7 DVD. I believe Tiger may not work if your underlying processor is Sandy Bridge or newer though, this is on a first-generation Core i5.

Do you have a link to more specific instructions on how to do this (since I already have Tiger Server)? This might be fun to attempt!

 

[647156]

There's nothing around that I'm aware of specifically regarding Tiger, I just used the same patch that is available to unlock 10.5+ support - I think by the time VMware had developed native support for OS X that meant unmodified versions of OS X could be virtualised, everyone had forgotten about Tiger, few people seem to have tried this to find that it works with nothing else needed. If you're using Fusion on OS X you shouldn't need a patch as it officially supports OS X (Server only, if 10.6 or below); if you're using Workstation on Windows it needs patching (as Apple only allowed VMware to virtualise OS X on top of OS X), I think this was the one I used : http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/files/file/20-vmware-unlocker-for-os-x/ (use at your own risk etc, though it's never caused me any problems).

When creating the VM I set the guest type to "Mac OS X Server 10.5" from the list of available options (Tiger isn't listed as they never officially supported it).

Tiger's not the oldest version of OS X that can be virtualised nicely either by the way

 

[MichaelLAX]

Thanks! I'll look into this.

I am working on the Mac side...

 

[teripittman]

Using Tiger in 2013

I have it on two machines, a G5 tower and a G4 ibook. Both are PPC machines. I work from home and use the G5 to remote into my work machine (a PC running XP!) The ibook was on the scrap pile at Free Geeks and I had to put a hard drive into it.

If you use Tiger, install TenFour for your browser. It's designed for OS 10.4 and is very fast. Since it's based on Firefox, it's very usable. You can also run Dropbox on Tiger (which is why I don't run Ubuntu on the G5. You can't install Dropbox on the PPC version.) I have the system folder for OS 9 installed, so I can use it if needed. I don't really use a lot of OS 9 apps. I have Apple Works installed but also have Libre Office and the Gimp. The only issue I have is that I can't sync my iphone to either computer. You can't upgrade to a version of iTunes that supports the phone without upgrading the OS. Since I can sync with my Linux laptop, I do that instead.

Apple may consider these computers obsolete, but they are still very useful. The G5 is at least as fast as my work computer! And I like being able to get a few more years out of a computer that I couldn't have afforded new. I will always prefer to buy my Apple products one generation behind.