What is Tile thinking (Tile response)

[Polly Mercocet]

If Chipolo can launch a Find My compatible tracker to coexist with their current trackers, so can Tile.

Interesting, looks like they got around the limitation by launching a separate product that works solely with the Find My network alongside their usual product line that integrates with their own app and network.

If Tile's business does take a hit from the Find My network I can imagine them doing the same. But then it complicates things for consumers. Going down this road you will end up with one tracker for iOS, one for Android, one for Samsung and whatever other Android OEMs do their own proprietary versions, and finally one for their own network. Bit of a marketing nightmare.

I can see why Tile wants to avoid that personally. OP's email says that they want one product that works across all platforms. The approach Chipolo has had to take to get around Apple's restrictions has already given up that way of doing things.

 

[the future]

An Android network that works along the lines of Apple's would have way more devices by sheer volume as well, so if companies do have to pick one or the other, the obvious incentive would be pick Google's

This is not nearly as clear cut as you make it sound. In more affluent countries (= countries where many people live that have expensive things to track and/or are willing and able to buy trackers in the first place) iOS has way more market share than any “world wide average“ number will account for (and the most affluent users at that). Also, many „Android“ devices would actually not be part of a hypothetical Google tracking network as they are „China Android“ devices and have no Google apps or services.

 

[Polly Mercocet]

This is not nearly as clear cut as you make it sound. In more affluent countries (= countries where many people live that have expensive things to track and/or are willing and able to buy trackers in the first place) iOS has way more market share than any “world wide average“ number will account for (and the most affluent users at that). Also, many „Android“ devices would actually not be part of a hypothetical Google tracking network as they are „China Android“ devices and have no Google apps or services.

Just from a quick google, Android has half the marketshare in the UK and over 60% throughout Europe. It looks like it's only the US where iOS has the majority marketshare.

So you are partially correct, it's not as clean cut as pure global numbers, but it will depend on which markets any given company is aiming for. Find My is the better option if you are aiming for the USA market definitely. Android has the edge if you want to sell to Europe, and there's plenty of wealthy countries in Europe.

As for the Chinaphones only ones sold within China itself have no Google services. Virtually all Chinese phones sold to international markets, with the exception of Huawei, do have the Play Store and other Google services included, e.g. Xiaomi.

 

[the future]

Just from a quick google, Android has half the marketshare in the UK and over 60% throughout Europe. It looks like it's only the US where iOS has the majority marketshare.

So you are partially correct, it's not as clean cut as pure global numbers, but it will depend on which markets any given company is aiming for. Find My is the better option if you are aiming for the USA market definitely. Android has the edge if you want to sell to Europe, and there's plenty of wealthy countries in Europe.

As for the Chinaphones only ones sold within China itself have no Google services. Virtually all Chinese phones sold to international markets, with the exception of Huawei, do have the Play Store and other Google services included, e.g. Xiaomi.

But also in the affluent countries not all customers are the same. To put it simple, if iOS has 50% of the customers in the UK, it has the „better“ (i.e. more affluent, willing to spend money on accessories like trackers) half. For the same reason the App Store still has approx. twice the revenue of the Play Store, although there are way more users in total using Android.

 

[Polly Mercocet]

But also in the affluent countries not all customers are the same. To put it simply, if iOS has 50% of the customers in the UK, it has the „better“ (i.e. more affluent, willing to spend money on accessories like trackers) half. For the same reason the App Store still has approx. twice the revenue of the Play Store, although there are way more users in total using Android.

This is not necessarily true. It's incorrect to assume affluent people only buy iPhones. Samsung's flagship Galaxy S21 Ultra is priced virtually the same as the flagship iPhone 12 Pro Max. Within the UK market at least, most people with Android phones don't have crappy cheap ones, they mostly buy the flagships.

You also have to take into account that the way people buy their phones is different too. In the US the few carriers have all the power and the phones are not subsided these days. In the UK it is very different, if you want a certain phone you can buy it on any network, so the networks compete on price and having the best deals, and if you take out a 24 month contract the cost of the phone is subsidised. Then you usually get extra deals thrown your way to keep you as a loyal customer or the competition will try to outdo those deals to take your business. It's highly competitive.

Naturally, as with any market, the end result of more competition is better deals for the consumer, driving down the cost of phones. There's people living in council estates with the latest iPhones. An iPhone is not a status symbol over here and flagship Samsungs are the most common on the Android side.

 

[the future]

This is not necessarily true. It's incorrect to assume affluent people only buy iPhones. Samsung's flagship Galaxy S21 Ultra is priced virtually the same as the flagship iPhone 12 Pro Max. Within the UK market at least, most people with Android phones don't have crappy cheap ones, they mostly buy the flagships.

You also have to take into account that the way people buy their phones is different too. In the US the few carriers have all the power and the phones are not subsided these days. In the UK it is very different, if you want a certain phone you can buy it on any network, so the networks compete on price and having the best deals, and if you take out a 24 month contract the cost of the phone is subsidised. Then you usually get extra deals thrown your way to keep you as a loyal customer or the competition will try to outdo those deals to take your business. It's highly competitive.

Naturally, as with any market, the end result of more competition is better deals for the consumer, driving down the cost of phones. There's people living in council estates with the latest iPhones. An iPhone is not a status symbol over here and flagship Samsungs are the most common on the Android side.

First of all, it has been proven over and over again that — on average — iOS users are more affluent; this is just a fact and not debatable. Second of all, the „flagships Samsungs“ are absolutely not „the most common on the Android side“; maybe this is true for a few people you know, but please check out the ASP of Samsung phones - it is way lower than iPhone ASP. Lastly, while nominally just as expensive, Android „flagships“ are sold way below list price basically right from release.

 

[macOS Lynx]

1 billion finders are about to be turned on by default.

Android market share does not matter in this case. Installed Tile apps, that are set to respond/subscribe? are what matters.

I estimate around 9:12am 4/30/21 apple will have a larger finding network than Tile ever will.

Ok? That doesn’t matter. A business’s success is dictated by how large their find network is?

it doesn’t matter if there’s going to be 1 billion devices if only 20% of phone owners can actually use, no? Not saying Tile has a network that large, and I also don’t know why we keep going back to their network size. That’s not my point at all.

I thought Samsung tags work with any android device?

Nope, only Samsung Galaxy phones.

 

[Polly Mercocet]

First of all, it has been proven over and over again that — on average — iOS users are more affluent; this is just a fact and not debatable. Second of all, the „flagships Samsungs“ are absolutely not „the most common on the Android side“; maybe this is true for a few people you know, but please check out the ASP of Samsung phones - it is way lower than iPhone ASP. Lastly, while nominally just as expensive, Android „flagships“ are sold way below list price basically right from release.

I am guessing you're basing that first point on US data? If you're going to declare something "just a fact and not debatable" I'd like to see the source so I can examine the data.

As to your second point, when I said flagship Android phones are most common I was referring specifically to the UK market. I am aware this is not true universally.

Addressing your final point, you seem to have missed the whole point of my previous comment. The price of any smartphone is cheaper than the list price if you buy one on a 24 month contract in the UK because the networks subsidise the cost of the handset and there is enough competition that prices end up being driven down rapidly.

Most people here buy phones on 24 month contracts so for most people there is literally no difference in the cost of an iPhone or a flagship Samsung, they choose based on personal reference.

 

[the future]

I am guessing you're basing that first point on US data? If you're going to declare something "just a fact and not debatable" I'd like to see the source so I can examine the data.

Just google it.

As to your second point, when I said flagship Android phones are most common I was referring specifically to the UK market. I am aware this is not true universally.

It‘s not true in the UK either.

 

[Polly Mercocet]

Just google it.

Alright.

I found this from 2016. Based solely on US data.

Also found this from 2013. Also based solely on US data.

All articles about iPhone owners being more wealthy seem to be coming from research conducted in the US.

Your views are clearly very US centric. The US is not the world you know.

It‘s not true in the UK either.

Here is a list of the most popular smartphones in the UK as of Q4 2020.

It is literally all iPhones and flagship Samsungs. No cheap Androids there.

 

[ZBoater]

Apple can’t compete with the Tile Slim. Yet.

 

[matrix07]

The main reason they're not joining the Find My network is because Apple's rules dictate you cannot be part of Find My and run your own independent app at the same time.

That's true but not true at the same time. See words can be confusing.

In short, Tile can do what Chipolo does. Launches new Tile that's only accessible through Find My and keeps old Tile that's accessible to their own app and Android.

 

[matrix07]

All articles about iPhone owners being more wealthy seem to be coming from research conducted in the US.

Your views are clearly very US centric.

His not US centric. I don't live in the US and I can say with my own experience that iOS users, in general, are more affluent. This is true in Japan, in India, in Brazil, in Spain.. all over the world.
That doesn't mean no rich persons own Android, or less rich own iPhone. It's just that statistic lean toward iOS users.

 

[matrix07]

Nope, only Samsung Galaxy phones.

That's really surprising. There is iOS app for tracking Samsung's, no?

 

[macOS Lynx]

That's really surprising. There is iOS app for tracking Samsung's, no?

Nope.

From Samsung’s website:

Galaxy SmartTag is only compatible with Samsung Galaxy phones. Use with a Galaxy smartphone running Android 8.0 or higher with 2.0GB RAM and above. SmartThings app required.

 

[Deliro]

I am not surprised. To join the Find My Network (in their business eyes) would be to admit that their product can't really compete. They will find out soon enough, that their business is already dying.

While it will hurt, they are still the leader and are completely viable for most platforms. They also have several tiers of solutions. Definitely won’t “die” anytime soon. I liked my tiles, but I had first gens and they ended up being e-waste as some of the earlier ones you couldn’t change the battery.

What sold me on the airtags was their user replaceable battery, kinda surprising. I’m also pretty heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem. But millions aren’t and that’s why Tile will be around for awhile for those who want trackers.

 

[Marli]

Ok? That doesn’t matter. A business’s success is dictated by how large their find network is?

For a product like this.. that's all that matters.. If all you want is a tracker that works in BT range, Maybe Tile has a place, if they are a lot cheaper.. but for tracking that needs a network, Tile is dead. I have a handful of tiles, and their Network is very poor at beast.. most people just turn off the app and background updating to save battery, so most tile users are participating in their network anyway.

And yes, there are a lot of Android phones out there, that make up a big part of the smartphone base.. but 90% of these will never buy a tracker of any sort anyway.. so they just don't matter.

 

[Tavicu]

Tile: "Apple is anti competitive and has monopoly and don't help us"
Apple opens Find My network
Tile: "We won't join it"

:|

 

[Polly Mercocet]

And yes, there are a lot of Android phones out there, that make up a big part of the smartphone base.. but 90% of these will never buy a tracker of any sort anyway.. so they just don't matter.

If Google launches a competing network for trackers, which is a virtual certainty, it does matter because all those Android phones will form a huge network. Data from said network could easily be used on an iPhone app as well as on Android.

 

[macsplusmacs]

Tile: "Apple is anti competitive and has monopoly and don't help us"
Apple opens Find My network
Tile: "We won't join it"

:|

Basically their entire "anti-trust". argument.

Tile will be fine. They will continue to sell to the cheaper customers with android. Tile will just lose the customers that unit for unit pay way more for apps, accessories, etc. than Android people do. (fact).

iOS users.

If Google launches a competing network for trackers, which is a virtual certainty, it does matter because all those Android phones will form a huge network. Data from said network could easily be used on an iPhone app as well as on Android.

If google does this expect 6% of their phones to be able to run the service 365 days after launch. Just like whatever flavor andorid they launch each year.

LOL.

 

[phr0z3n]

Tile probably wants to lock us all in to a subscription which they probably can't do if they joined the Find My network.

 

[minnemike]

I read an article and Tile does have a strategy - they are trying to get their ecosystem built into bluetooth chips as a native function... which would then allow a larger scope like Apple now has. They are in talks with the major chip manufacturers - not sure if it goes anywhere though. Chip manufacturers will probably be pushed by bigger entities like Google and Apple to not do this.

Edit update: I guess they are already in the works???

Tile's location-tracking tech to be integrated into Bluetooth chips | AppleInsider

Tile on Monday announced that its location-tracking technology, which normally helps to find things like keys and wallets, will soon be integrated into the Bluetooth chips of major suppliers.

appleinsider.com

 

[macOS Lynx]

For a product like this.. that's all that matters.. If all you want is a tracker that works in BT range, Maybe Tile has a place, if they are a lot cheaper.. but for tracking that needs a network, Tile is dead. I have a handful of tiles, and their Network is very poor at beast.. most people just turn off the app and background updating to save battery, so most tile users are participating in their network anyway.

And yes, there are a lot of Android phones out there, that make up a big part of the smartphone base.. but 90% of these will never buy a tracker of any sort anyway.. so they just don't matter.

I mean, you could easily say the same thing about iPhone owners. I see a lot of excitement here and in the tech communities I partake in, but when I ask my non-techy friends if they plan to get an AirTag most of them either say "No" or "What's that? Seems stupid."

I think for a product like this what matters more is adaptability and access. We'll see how the Find My Network grows and in the future Tile may be threatened, but considering the overwhelming availability of Tile-partnered devices + their much larger variety of branded devices (such as one that fits in wallets) I'd say for now, at worst, they just lose some iOS customers.

I'm excited to see where the Find My network goes, and it in theory could kill Tile, but I mean, in theory Apple Music could've caused Pandora, Deezer, and Tidal to all just disappear, but they clearly are still around with decently-sized userbases.

 

[DoubleFlyaway]

I'm a long-time Tile user who is jumping ship. I like my Tiles, but they do leave a fair amount to be desired. They have made a couple of significant improvements-- replaceable batteries and a louder speaker, at least in their "pro" version. But the biggest issue is simply that they aren't as reliable as I want them to be. If I need to find something, it is hit or miss whether it will function properly to play a sound at the exact moment I need it to. The Tile will have been in contact with my item recently enough for me to know it is somewhere in my house, but I have had a lot of frustrating experiences with needing to find something NOW and Tile not having the responsiveness I need.

I think/expect that with the precision tracking, AirTags will be a significant improvement in the one area where Tile is lacking in my eyes.

 

[matrix07]

I read an article and Tile does have a strategy - they are trying to get their ecosystem built into bluetooth chips as a native function... which would then allow a larger scope like Apple now has.

That will be a very bad idea. First off I couldn't see Apple buying said chips so there goes one major customers. I even don't want anything I'll buy to have those chips that will invade my privacy and send my location data to Tile.
Having Tile ecosystem on a chip is not a selling point. It's the opposite as far as I concern.