I was wondering why people are still using leopard on there core 2 duo macs when they can easily upgrade to a newer OS whats so great about leopard, and whats the differences between leopard and snow leopard?
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Why are people still using OSX leopard?
- Thread starter garrettstech
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Who says Snow Leopard or Lion is "a better OS"? There's no need to upgrade to a different OS version unless that version provides something needed that the current version doesn't provide. I see nothing in SL or Lion that I need that Leopard doesn't already provide. And what difference does it make what choices others may make? Just use whatever OS version you want and ignore what everyone else chooses to do.I would like to know why people are still using leopard on there core 2 duo macs when they can easily upgrade to a better OS whats so great about leopard, and whats the differences between leopard and snow leopard?
Because they want too - pure and simple.
If an operating system fits their needs and the newer one does not offer them anything to really draw them in, why should they upgrade?
I don't always jump on the newsest OS, I waited on Snow Leopard, and Lion, unless there is a motivation, I'll hold off.
For some people, saving $30 is far more important than having a secure, supported OS.
What can you say? Some people have very, very different priorities.
What can you say? Some people have very, very different priorities.
I'm sure there are a few who are dissuaded from upgrading because of the cost, but that's clearly not the issue for many, especially with such a trivial amount. Leopard is a secure OS that does everything that many people need. Unless there's some feature in SL or Lion that they specifically want or need, there's simply no need to upgrade for the sake of upgrading.
Got plenty of buddies who still use SL. They are happy with it, they know what's what, and as posted above, why upgrade for upgrades sake?
Were it not for the fact that I was in my "Update Year" and so both my MBP and MBA are new, and came with Lion installed, I might have left SL on my iMac. I decided to upgrade it in order to have the three machines in sync so to speak. Sl was fine, and still is.
Were it not for the fact that I was in my "Update Year" and so both my MBP and MBA are new, and came with Lion installed, I might have left SL on my iMac. I decided to upgrade it in order to have the three machines in sync so to speak. Sl was fine, and still is.
Leopard has not gotten security updates for over six months now. It has numerous known, acknowledged, and unpatched vulnerabilities in Safari, OS X's text handling, OS X's media playback, and many other functions. It also trusts several security certificates that are known to have been stolen.
If you're using Leopard, you're trusting your obscurity to protect you. Fortunately, Leopard is pretty obscure now.
Leopard requires only 384 MB RAM for "normal" tasks (at least in my VM; only more for the installation (512 MB?)). It is pretty fast (boots via EFI, not via BIOS), has a x86_64 kernel, supports all 64-Bit third party kernel extensions, which i do not want to use on a real machine (possible kernel panics), supports encrypted virtual memory, and so on. I would use it on PowerPC G4/G5 hardware, because it is the first and last OS, which supports PowerPCs and Time Machine. Many PowerPC G4/G5 users here on MR like 10.5.8 (with all additional updates), because it is very fast and stable.I was wondering why people are still using leopard on there core 2 duo macs when they can easily upgrade to a newer OS whats so great about leopard, and whats the differences between leopard and snow leopard?
My "newest" PowerPC is a blue & white G3
, so i've no Leopard on PowerPC hardware.
Before my mac was stolen, I used SL on it. I didn't want to upgrade to Lion due to all the problems I had with it. And honestly, SL wasn't any different from Leopard. If I could have done it all over again (and didn't have to worry about reinstallings like Adobe and Final Cut Suite which can take hours) I would have left Leopard on it, with it's usable expose.
There are vulnerabilities in every OS, including SL and Lion. Just because you close some in an upgraded version doesn't mean the new version is not at risk from others. There is no completely secure OS. Also, the fact that a vulnerability exists doesn't mean it will be exploited. Many vulnerabilities, both patched and unpatched, have never been exploited. If someone upgrades to SL or Lion because they think by doing so that they no longer have to employ safe computing practices, then they're upgrading for the wrong reason.
Ouch! That hurts! ;-)
A lot.
Correct. ;-)
And your motivation to post such *YouKnowWhat* is? Many people do not use Leopard for the network access (in a lab, for example). Many Leopard users use File Vault, other encrypted disk images or PGPdisk Whole Disk Encryption. + Leopard supports encrypted virtual memory. Leopard is pretty secure, if you use it in the right environment. Espionage professionals find always a way, even on OSs with all official security updates.
Correct & +1. ;-)
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It's a devil-you-do vs. devil-you-don't situation.
With Leopard, you're running an OS that has both known and unknown problems. With Snow Leopard or later, you're running an OS that, for the most part, only has unknown problems.
What's the difference? Put simply, you can exploit Leopard just by being a decent programmer and following the maps laid out in the vulnerability reports.
To exploit Lion or Snow Leopard, you first have to find vulnerability on your own, which is a fairly difficult thing to do. Then you have to exploit it, as above. The finding of the weakness is far more difficult than the exploiting.
No, but there sure are a lot of straw men in here!
Well, it's pretty hard for a patched vulnerability to be exploited.
And as I said, Leopard is a pretty tiny portion of a minority OS, so it's a very small target to hit.Again with the straw men. Nobody said that having a patched OS was the only thing you had to do. Only that is the first step.
To inform the dangerously ignorant. To wit:
Neither of which is of any protection whatsoever against the myriad of code execution vulnerabilities that Leopard has.
[size=-2](Security features that would help are sandboxing and ASLR. Leopard does support these features, but they are not used by the system, hence the widespread vulnerabilities.)[/size]
Leopard is pretty insecure, from a technical standpoint. Operationally, it can be used securely...so long as you strictly limit how it is used. The vast, vast majority of people won't do that; they simply don't have the skills and understanding necessary.
What is your intent here? Do you really think you're going to convince people to abandon Leopard and upgrade, just because you think a newer version is safer? You haven't presented one justification for upgrading. Many of the vulnerabilities that exist in any OS will likely never be exploited. Many are discovered and patched before anyone exploits them. That's what I meant about patched vulnerabilities. They were never exploited, even before they were patched.
I've run Leopard for 4 years and have had exactly zero vulnerabilities exploited. Zero malware. Zero compromises. Zero crashes. Zero kernel panics. Zero re-installs. Millions of others have had the same experience. Just because a newer OS is released doesn't mean it's always better. There are disadvantages to upgrading to consider. Each person has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages and make a choice that best meets their needs.
I have no interest in trying to convince people to stay on Leopard or Tiger or any OS. Neither do I have an interest in trying to sell them on the idea of upgrading. There is no "right" or "wrong" choice here. What matters is what works best for each user.
Well said. Leopard runs just fine on my G4 mini. SL and Lion run just fine on all our newer Macs.
I'm trying to make people aware of the risks that are involved with using unsupported software
We all agree that the risk, in practical terms, is small. But I disagree with the notion that, because it is currently small, you should ignore it or remain ignorant of it.
I'm not selling software upgrades; I have no stock in Apple or any other tech company. I don't make a penny if you upgrade, and I don't lose a cent if you happen to visit the wrong site and get compromised. I just want people to be aware of the problems of the technology they are using. If they decide to use it anyway, that's their choice.
We all agree that the risk, in practical terms, is small. But I disagree with the notion that, because it is currently small, you should ignore it or remain ignorant of it.
I'm not selling software upgrades; I have no stock in Apple or any other tech company. I don't make a penny if you upgrade, and I don't lose a cent if you happen to visit the wrong site and get compromised. I just want people to be aware of the problems of the technology they are using. If they decide to use it anyway, that's their choice.
A better question, why are people bothered by what OS someone else uses? Who cares? They use it because they like it and/or it suits their needs.
It's a personal choice. Not everyone cares about being on the latest & greatest version of a particular widget, especially when the configuration a person is working on meets all of their needs.
I'm happy for you. Mine can't, either, at least not in any way that I know.
But if:
- You're running Leopard
- You have QuickTime enabled, or have Java enabled, or download and read a PDF in Preview, or are running Safari
- Someone tricks you into visiting a malicious website
- Someone develops and embeds a malicious PDF/Movie file/Java Applet on that site
Then you would be. No "cancel." No password box. Instant code running on your Leopard Mac.
Note that that's a long list of ifs, all of which would have to happen, for this to work, but it is possible under Leopard just by exploiting known holes.
Thank you for that informative contribution to this thread.
(I actually liked Leopard a lot, and had no issues with it at all right up until the day I upgraded.)
I could compile the same kind of "if" scenarios for Snow Leopard and Lion and Mountain Lion and any other OS out there. What's the point? It's not gonna happen.
But you'd be making them up, or they'd rely on "user deliberately gives password out" stupidity.
It can, and does, but it won't happen to you or me, so who cares?
Your post is like asking why people are driving cars from 2005 (or earlier than 2012 really). The answer may simply be that that the OS they currently have is working well for them.
One argument that I would offer as a possibility is that the new OSs are a bit more hardware intensive. At least in my experience. I am running Lion by the way.
One argument that I would offer as a possibility is that the new OSs are a bit more hardware intensive. At least in my experience. I am running Lion by the way.