Other 15 Pro / Pro Max camera hardware changes are really disappointing

[the future]

Here are the hard facts after doing some research:

• The main 1x camera on both new Pro models is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The ultra wide 0,5x camera on both new Pro models is also exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The 3x tele camera on the 15 Pro is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max, which was already exactly the same as on the 13 Pro / Pro Max. Again, no new sensor, no new glass.
• The 5x tele camera on the 15 Pro Max is indeed brand new. Sadly, it replaces the 3x camera instead of being added. So on the Pro Max, you now have native optical focal lengths of 13 mm, 24 mm and 120 mm. For my personal use cases, this is actually worse than the native optical focal lengths trio of the regular Pro at 13 mm, 24 mm and 77 mm. The gap between 24 and 120 is huge and for me 77 is a more frequently usable focal length than 120.

All other photography-related improvements mentioned in the keynote are indeed software based. Will they come to the 14 Pro models as well? Probably not.

Long story short, from a hardware camera / photography point of view, the only real reason to get a 15 model is if you know you‘ll use the 120 mm tele lens from the Pro Max a lot.

Edit: If you want to call this a „hardware improvement“, there is apparently a new nanoscale coating on the wide-angle lens to reduce lens flare. Better than nothing, I guess.

 

[Steve121178]

Yep. Very disappointing update. That's two years in a row Apple have dropped the ball.

Seems like innovation is exclusively for their competitors these days.

And let's not get started on how poor iOS is these days with a very slow drip-feed of mediocre improvements when it really needs a very major overhaul. Everyone knows it apart from Apple.

 

[flashflooder]

Yep. Very disappointing update. That's two years in a row Apple have dropped the ball.

Seems like innovation is exclusively for their competitors these days.

And let's not get started on how poor iOS is these days with a very slow drip-feed of mediocre improvements when it really needs a very major overhaul. Everyone know it apart from Apple.

hard disagree on iOS major overhaul. I'd rather they keep working on incremental improvements.... You say it's poor but it's still miles better than anything else in the space imo.

 

[TJ82]

Yes I think going nuclear on iOS would do more harm than good in usability. File management is the major weakness - everything else just needs tweaked until they find the sweet spot.

When are the reviews coming - I want to see some proper photo comparisons. Could be the 15 is greater than the sum of its parts, which is often the case with tech. Software advances on the Sony A7 series are the reason to upgrade for example. Earlier models were awfully clunky and had poor focus tracking. Does the 15 take better photos and videos? All I want to know. The rest is guff.

 

[Torty]

Why is 3x better for you than 5x? If I want to zoom I want to zoom. And it's never enough.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Feels like a chassis limitation at this point and that goes for all phones. Similar to audio speakers there’s only so much you can do if constrained to a specific size so you use things like spatial audio or other ways to manipulate small devices to emulate big sound.

Apple ‘reset’ the weight with the new Pro materials so it gives them room to creep back up to stainless steel weights but the weight coming from the camera even more now. Going to be a very top heavy phone just wait.

 

[the future]

When are the reviews coming - I want to see some proper photo comparisons. Could be the 15 is greater than the sum of its parts, which is often the case with tech. Software advances on the Sony A7 series are the reason to upgrade for example. Earlier models were awfully clunky and had poor focus tracking. Does the 15 take better photos and videos? All I want to know. The rest is guff.

You’re right, that is all that really matters. And I do expect the new A17 Pro chip as well as the new „Photonic Engine“ to make a difference. But in the end computational wizardry can only go so far and the hardware capabilities are still very, very important. And here very little changed this year.

Why is 3x better for you than 5x? If I want to zoom I want to zoom. And it's never enough.

I like to take portraits and for that 77 mm is much closer to the „classic“ focal length of 85 mm. More zoom is (in general) only useful if you want to take a picture of an object that is quite far away and you can’t get closer to. But sometimes you want to take a picture of an object that you can‘t get further away from and then 120 mm may very well be to long to even be able to capture the whole object at all.

Feels like a chassis limitation at this point and that goes for all phones.

Other flagship phones added a longer tele and didn‘t replace the shorter tele that was present before. The Samsung S23 Ultra, for example, has 13, 24, 70 and 230 mm cameras.

 

[Torty]

You’re right, that is all that really matters. And I do expect the new A17 Pro chip as well as the new „Photonic Engine“ to make a difference. But in the end computational wizardry can only go so far and the hardware capabilities are still very, very important. And here very little changed this year.



I like to take portraits and for that 77 mm is much closer to the „classic“ focal length of 85 mm. More zoom is (in general) only useful if you want to take a picture of an object that is quite far away and you can’t get closer to. But sometimes you want to take a picture of an object that you can‘t get further away from and then 120 mm may very well be to long to even be able to capture the whole object at all.



Other flagship phones added a longer tele and didn‘t replace the shorter tele that was present before. The Samsung S23 Ultra, for example, has 13, 24, 70 and 230 mm cameras.

OK so this is a very individual topic. When I needed a zoom it was almost always when I wanted to take pictures from animals. And for that purpose 3x is almost nothing. I would even replace 3x with 10x or more.

 

[the future]

OK so this is a very individual topic. When I needed a zoom it was almost always when I wanted to take pictures from animals. And for that purpose 3x is almost nothing. I would even replace 3x with 10x or more.

Yeah, animals are a prime example of objects you often can‘t (or sometimes shouldn‘t) get close enough to without a long tele zoom. Other animals than pets on your own couch, of course.

 

[drugdoubles]

Here are the hard facts after doing some research:

• The main 1x camera on both new Pro models is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The ultra wide 0,5x camera on both new Pro models is also exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The 3x tele camera on the 15 Pro is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max, which was already exactly the same as on the 13 Pro / Pro Max. Again, no new sensor, no new glass.
• The 5x tele camera on the 15 Pro Max is indeed brand new. Sadly, it replaces the 3x camera insted of being added. So on the Pro Max, you now have native optival focal lengths of 13 mm, 24 mm and 120 mm. For my personal use cases, this is actually worse than the native optical focal lengths trio of the regular Pro at 13 mm, 24 mm and 77 mm. The gap between 24 and 120 is huge and for me 77 is a more frequently usable focal length than 120.

All other photography-related improvements mentioned in the keynote are indeed software based. Will they come to the 14 Pro models as well? Probably not.

Long story short, from a hardware camera / photography point of view, the only real reason to get a 15 model is if you know you‘ll use the 120 mm tele lens from the Pro Max a lot.

Edit: If you want to call this a „hardware improvement“, there is apparently a new nanoscale coating on the wide-angle lens to reduce lens flare. Better than nothing, I guess.

May be only good for people taking photos of birds or wild life animals with a phone then

 

[JamesMay82]

hard disagree on iOS major overhaul. I'd rather they keep working on incremental improvements.... You say it's poor but it's still miles better than anything else in the space imo.

I would agree with the the posters comments but I recently fired up an old iPhone and iMac and they feel like different machines completely. I think its only when you look back to appreciate what we have now. iMessage, airdrop, photos in the cloud etc.

 

[AlixSPQR]

5x zoom for wildlife isn’t enough.
I agree with OP.

 

[JH101]

Here are the hard facts after doing some research:

• The main 1x camera on both new Pro models is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The ultra wide 0,5x camera on both new Pro models is also exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max. No new sensor, no new glass.
• The 3x tele camera on the 15 Pro is exactly the same as on the 14 Pro / Pro Max, which was already exactly the same as on the 13 Pro / Pro Max. Again, no new sensor, no new glass.
• The 5x tele camera on the 15 Pro Max is indeed brand new. Sadly, it replaces the 3x camera insted of being added. So on the Pro Max, you now have native optival focal lengths of 13 mm, 24 mm and 120 mm. For my personal use cases, this is actually worse than the native optical focal lengths trio of the regular Pro at 13 mm, 24 mm and 77 mm. The gap between 24 and 120 is huge and for me 77 is a more frequently usable focal length than 120.

All other photography-related improvements mentioned in the keynote are indeed software based. Will they come to the 14 Pro models as well? Probably not.

Long story short, from a hardware camera / photography point of view, the only real reason to get a 15 model is if you know you‘ll use the 120 mm tele lens from the Pro Max a lot.

Edit: If you want to call this a „hardware improvement“, there is apparently a new nanoscale coating on the wide-angle lens to reduce lens flare. Better than nothing, I guess.

Where did you find these specs, as dpreview say "The iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max have an improved main camera with a bigger sensor"?

 

[LiE_]

I'm sure Apple said the 15 Pro has new sensors.

The iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max have an improved main camera with a bigger sensor and the same high 48MP pixel count as before with a 24mm equivalent focal length. Unlike last year's model, users can pick a default focal length for whenever the camera app opens, from either 24, 28, or 35mm equivalent options. The new main camera has improved lens coatings and full coverage of Focus Pixels (Apple's marketing term for phase detection) and sensor shift stabilization as well.

Apple announces iPhone 15 and 15 Pro with USB-C, improved designs and better cameras

Apple's latest iPhones mix things up, but keep many things the same. Here's a rundown of the designs, cameras, and other changes in the new iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro models.

www.dpreview.com

 

[the future]

Where did you find these specs, as dpreview say "The iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max have an improved main camera with a bigger sensor"?

They got fooled by the presentation. The speaker said „a bigger sensor … than iPhone 15“. Which means that though the non-pro models now have a 48MP sensor as well, it‘s smaller than the one in the Pro 14/15.

 

[the future]

I'm sure Apple said the 15 Pro has new sensors.

No, they didn‘t. Re-stream the presentation.

 

[the future]

Here are the slides (for the main camera) from last years and this years keynotes. Same sensor, same glass.

 

[JH101]

They got fooled by the presentation. The speaker said „a bigger sensor … than iPhone 15“. Which means that though the non-pro models now have a 48MP sensor as well, it‘s smaller than the one in the Pro 14/15.

ok, but where have you seen the specs?

• Phone 15 pro Main: 48MP, ƒ/1.78 aperture
• vs
• iphone 15 Main: 48MP, ƒ/1.6 aperture

Looks like we will have to wait and see if the smaller but brighter 15 sensor is as good as the bigger? pro sensor (think I need a real life comparison in RAW from each)

 

[the future]

ok, but where have you seen the specs?

• Phone 15 pro Main: 48MP, ƒ/1.78 aperture
• vs
• iphone 15 Main: 48MP, ƒ/1.6 aperture

Looks like we will have to wait and see if the smaller but brighter 15 sensor is as good as the bigger? pro sensor (think I need a real life comparison in RAW from each)

Those specs are correct, but the non-pro sensor is both smaller (2.00 vs. 2.44 pixel size) and a different focal length (26 vs 24 mm). It will be fine, I guess, but not quite up there with the pro sensor.

 

[JH101]

Those specs are correct, but the non-pro sensor is both smaller (2.00 vs. 2.44 pixel size) and a different focal length (26 vs 24 mm). It will be fine, I guess, but not quite up there with the pro sensor.

cheers. Sold my camera for the 15pro (and the 1" sensor), but looks like it will be a 15 pro max buy and then again next year if we get the 1" sensor. hey ho...

 

[skidu]

Glad someone mentioned this, getting rid of the 77mm lens is definitely a step backwards. I feel they'll either add it back next year in the redesigned model or if they want to keep the iconic 3 camera setup - have some clever periscope lens like Sony have with the Xperia 1 IV.

Either way, pretty poor upgrade from someone who updates yearly. Also if the main sensor had changed or gotten larger then focal length would have also changed. So it almost confirms it's the same sensor as the 14 pro.

 

[Samut]

They got fooled by the presentation. The speaker said „a bigger sensor … than iPhone 15“. Which means that though the non-pro models now have a 48MP sensor as well, it‘s smaller than the one in the Pro 14/15.

You are correct. I was initially excited about this yesterday and jumped right back into camera part of the presentation when the stream was available. Only to be disappointed by the fact apple presented sensor specs in a very misleading way.

Most likely for purpose as they could not present any improvements to any of the cameras.

It would be great to have slightly larger sensors for better image quality. 48 megapixel pro raw is quite good but would benefit from larger sensor and lower noise reduction.

Most likely these much needed updates to sensors will come next year and if you currently have 13 or 14 pro it might be a good idea to wait.

 

[JH101]

Glad someone mentioned this, getting rid of the 77mm lens is definitely a step backwards. I feel they'll either add it back next year in the redesigned model or if they want to keep the iconic 3 camera setup - have some clever periscope lens like Sony have with the Xperia 1 IV.

Either way, pretty poor upgrade from someone who updates yearly. Also if the main sensor had changed or gotten larger then focal length would have also changed. So it almost confirms it's the same sensor as the 14 pro.

Question on this. If the main camera is 24mm at 48MP, then you zoom into 77mm isn't this the equivalent to the old 12mp camera at approx same mp? (as the new 120mm is now 24mp, so should get you higher rez at similar cropped in ranges) Cheers

edit/ here copied from someone on Dpreview

13mm @ 12mp
24mm @ 48mp
24mm @ 24mp
28mm @ 24mp
35mm @ 24mp
48mm @ 12mp
77mm @ 12mp / 120mm @ 12mp (pro max)

 

[skidu]

You are correct. I was initially excited about this yesterday and jumped right back into camera part of the presentation when the stream was available. Only to be disappointed by the fact apple presented sensor specs in a very misleading way.

Most likely for purpose as they could not present any improvements to any of the cameras.

It would be great to have slightly larger sensors for better image quality. 48 megapixel pro raw is quite good but would benefit from larger sensor and lower noise reduction.

Most likely these much needed updates to sensors will come next year and if you currently have 13 or 14 pro it might be a good idea to wait.

Honestly, I think they've plateaued with the main sensor (for now) I would prefer to see them put their efforts into a larger mp sensor for the ultra wide or better aperture for the tele like f2.2 or something @ 70-80mm

 

[the future]

Question on this. If the main camera is 24mm at 48MP, then you zoom into 77mm isn't this the equivalent to the old 12mp camera at approx same mp?

Not even close. The 2x „crop-zoom„ will give you approx. 12 MP at 48 mm. Not even Apple pretends that cropping the main camera so hard to 77 mm will give you usable pictures. That‘s why even their „7 cameras“ marketing line is for Macro-13-24-28-35-48-120. Nothing between 48 and 120.

(as the new 120mm is now 24mp, so should get you higher rez at similar cropped in ranges) Cheers

The 120 mm lens has a 12 MP sensor.