4.4 Megapixels does the job! (UPDATED to 10MP FINE).

[bunnspecial]

I had to buy a bunch of D1 series cameras to get working ones, but the price each when I was hunting for them was comically low-usually $10-20 a camera, especially bought in lots.

My D5 is the most expensive camera I’ve ever bought, but it was still a lot less than new.

This is a hobby for a lot of us. There are far more expensive hobbies out there.

Aside from that, I enjoy working on and repairing camera gear. Lately one of my things has been repairing external batteries and flash gear from Metz and Quantum. By new MSRP I probably am currently sitting on $20k+ worth of this stuff. My actual cost is a fraction, and repaired it’s worth quite a bit more than what I paid. As an example, I generally pay $15-25 for a dead Quantum Turbo SC. B&H sells these new for $460. It costs me about $20 to rebuild one, and I can sell them all day for $80-90. Meanwhile, I always have a bunch around for my own use-I get to real-world test my repairs before selling and use what is perceived as pricey pro gear.

 

[OldMacs4Me]

Back in 2014 I was running a display resolution of 1280x960. Took a 10,000 Km road trip. Tons of pics on my old 8MP Oly waterproof CCD camera. Worked up a series of nice slide shows typically 1200x800 pixels. They displayed beautifully crisp and filled most of the screen of that eras reasonably priced monitors. Today I could go back to the same originals and prepare similar slide shows at say 1800x1200. For the most part they would still display quite well if I was not looking too critically. But if I were to display them at close to full screen on some of todays bigger monitors, the weakness in detail capture would become painfully obvious.

IOW you need to be thinking about how your images will appear on the gear you will be using 5 or 10 years from now. That said on a tiny sensor camera it is quite possible that 4.4MP captures all the detail the camera can deliver. That is very true of my little Fuji CMOS, but with my little Oly CMOS I can see improvements as I go from small to medium to large image sizes. Neither holds a candle to my 1" Lumix when it comes to detail capture. And I noticed a slight improvement over the Lumix when I borrowed a Canon APS-c format camera.
Relative sensor sizes:
Tiny Sensor Cameras ~4.8x6.4mm
Lumix 8.8x13.2mm
APS-c 16x24mm
Full frame 24x36mm.

 

[jwolf6589]

not everyone buys their gear new. used gear can be a bargain.

i thought this thread was about megapixels, not money.

True. However with electronics used gear on eBay generally has no warranty and will break down faster.

 

[r.harris1]

True. However with electronics used gear on eBay generally has no warranty and will break down faster.

How much faster does it break down when you buy something used? Personally, I’ve bought a lot of great stuff used from KEH (180 days warranty), MPB (180 days), smaller camera shops (usually 90-180 days), and all has been of high quality (or according to description) and still functions great. Purchase from reputable places and you should be good and if not, you return it.

 

[bunnspecial]

I've bought from KEH and B&H a lot too, and never have had issues.

If you research used purchases ahead of time, you will often find if there are known issues with the item you're looking. One of the ones that comes to mind for me is the autofocus motor on a lot of first generation Nikon AF-S lenses(80-200 f/2.8, 300mm f/4, and 28-70 f/2.8 are three that come to mind) and Nikon ran out of parts for them a long time ago. My 300 f/4 squeaks pretty badly, which can be a sign of a failing motor, or can be an annoyance for years. I don't use the lens a lot(I honestly should sell it, especially since my 300 f/2.8 AF-S VR aside from the weight is better for almost any situation where I'd use a 300mm lens, but then a 300mm f/4 with a squeaky motor is not worth that much) but I've had it for probably 4 years now and it just keeps going. I also gambled and paid about half the normal selling price back when I did buy it based on the squeaking motor.

I've had good luck with Ebay gear, and I've had good luck with local camera shops also. My D800 was bought from a local shop, and it had an issue pretty much the day I brought it home. I took it back, and ended up working out a deal with the shop. They sent it off for repair, but the issue that needed the repair was deep enough into the camera that doing a full CLA(clean-lubricate-adjust) made a lot of sense, as did replacing the shutter. They sold the camera for about $100 less than then-current KEH or Ebay prices based on the shutter having 150,000 clicks, and I bought it knowing that. We split the cost of the repair(about $300 total) since they were making right on selling me a functioning camera, but the camera returned to me after the repair was far better than the camera I sent in. That I thought was more than reasonable.

My most recent issue with KEH was buying a D3X that actually was a standard D3. Fortunately they gave me no issue with returning it, and I bought one privately.

On the whole, it's been pretty rare that I've had camera equipment break as anything other than a direct result of something I did. The last major one I had, that still stings a few years later, was stupidly leaving my D800+17-35mm f/2.8 in the back seat of my car not in a case. I reached in to pull my backpack out, and it caught the camera strap and tumbled onto the ground. The camera was fine, but the lens ended up with both the focus and zoom jammed. Nikon wanted enough to repair it that I just figured I'd buy another(it had a squeaky focus motor anyway). That was in maybe 2018 and I still haven't bought another of thoese lenses-if I ever did replace it I'd probably opt for the 16-35 instead...

 

[mollyc]

i’ve not bought used from a “big” store but have small local stores.

my most recent purchase is a 60 year old film camera that has a one year warranty. if you shop local you’ll get better service. even one of my other used cameras i learned didn’t work after the store warranty and while they didn’t refund me, they did take the camera back and give me store credit for a different copy.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Only two of my lenses were bought new. Every other was bought second hand and have been excellent.

 

[jwolf6589]

i’ve not bought used from a “big” store but have small local stores.

my most recent purchase is a 60 year old film camera that has a one year warranty. if you shop local you’ll get better service. even one of my other used cameras i learned didn’t work after the store warranty and while they didn’t refund me, they did take the camera back and give me store credit for a different copy.

There is a camera shop in my area. I took note of it encase my cameras break and no longer being sold.

 

[OldMacs4Me]

OKAY OKAY. Was at the ice castles in Cripple Creek, CO and noticed some grainy photos on my Air so I have upped the res to 10MP.

If the light was poor the camera probably grabbed a high ISO, perhaps 1600. Tiny sensor cameras seldom deliver their full potential when the ISO is above 400. And reducing the resolution adds an additional handicap.

 

[bunnspecial]

If the light was poor the camera probably grabbed a high ISO, perhaps 1600. Tiny sensor cameras seldom deliver their full potential when the ISO is above 400. And reducing the resolution adds an additional handicap.

Small sensors may make it more pronounced, but I’ve yet to see a sensor where any increase over base ISO didn’t degrade IQ at least some. On a full frame sensor going from 100 to 200 is barely perceptible, but it’s there if you look for it.

That’s why I use the lowest I can get away with regardless of the camera.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Small sensors may make it more pronounced, but I’ve yet to see a sensor where any increase over base ISO didn’t degrade IQ at least some. On a full frame sensor going from 100 to 200 is barely perceptible, but it’s there if you look for it.

That’s why I use the lowest I can get away with regardless of the camera.

This is so true. People say this camera or that camera will shoot at ISO 2000 and still be fine. I say it’s a sliding scale. It maybe better than an older camera, but it’s still got more noise and grain at higher ISO’s than a lower setting.
It’s just whatever you find acceptable to you. No one else.

 

[OldMacs4Me]

Small sensors may make it more pronounced, but I’ve yet to see a sensor where any increase over base ISO didn’t degrade IQ at least some. On a full frame sensor going from 100 to 200 is barely perceptible, but it’s there if you look for it.

That’s why I use the lowest I can get away with regardless of the camera.

Definitely more pronounced with small sensors.

FWIW I set the Fuji to an ISO of 200. For whatever reason that's where I get the cleanest image. Generally ISO 400 is OK but I can see the loss. ISO 800 is barely acceptable, used only if lighting is so crappy that I have no choice. The little Oly does well at 400 and I don't hesitate to use 800 but I still prefer to keep it down around 200 or 100.

Keep in mind that in my film days I tried to avoid faster films as I found the grain distracting not creative.

 

[jwolf6589]

If the light was poor the camera probably grabbed a high ISO, perhaps 1600. Tiny sensor cameras seldom deliver their full potential when the ISO is above 400. And reducing the resolution adds an additional handicap.

Updated to 10MP fine. Have taken some photos and will examine later tonight on MacBook Air 15 inch.

 

[bunnspecial]

This is so true. People say this camera or that camera will shoot at ISO 2000 and still be fine. I say it’s a sliding scale. It maybe better than an older camera, but it’s still got more noise and grain at higher ISO’s than a lower setting.
It’s just whatever you find acceptable to you. No one else.

Yes, exactly.

I will use whatever ISO will support the apertures I have available/need and of course shutter speeds fast enough to avoid motion blur since, at the end of the day, noise is a lot more tolerable to me(and easier to to fix) than motion blur.

Still, though, my default is ton use the lowest ISO I can reasonably get away with.

In some ways VR can be a game changer in this respect, but it's also not the end-all-be-all. When I went from the 24-70 f/2.8G to the f/2.8E VR, I found that when people are involved, especially kids, I MIGHT get a 1 stop benefit sometimes, or might still use the same shutter speeds I use to. I don't have the "G" lens anymore but do have the now-ancient 35-70 f/2.8D that I can make these sort of comparisons with since I do use it side-by-side sometimes. My X-T5 claims something crazy like 7 stops when using the body with a stabilized lens, but in the real world with moving subjects, no.