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davidg4781

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Oct 28, 2006
2,806
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Alice, TX
I’m trying to optimize my Wi-Fi at home. One thing I was considering doing is putting the Apple TV’s for n Ethernet via Wi-Fi since they’re basically sitting next to each other.

Then I found out these max out at 100 mbps.

Is this going to really be an issue? My internet speed is 200 mbps. But do I even need 100 mbps to stream non-4K media?
 

IngoX

macrumors regular
Jan 4, 2022
135
97
Sweden
100 mbps is plenty. Netflix recommends 25 Mbps for 4k, 5 Mbps for HD. Always good to wire your network if possible to keep wifi uncongested.
 
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-Gonzo-

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2015
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You don’t even need 100mbps for 4K media, for 4K streaming you need a minimum of 25mbps.
 

peripatetic

macrumors member
Apr 16, 2005
31
37
I’m trying to optimize my Wi-Fi at home. One thing I was considering doing is putting the Apple TV’s for n Ethernet via Wi-Fi since they’re basically sitting next to each other.

Then I found out these max out at 100 mbps.

Is this going to really be an issue? My internet speed is 200 mbps. But do I even need 100 mbps to stream non-4K media?
If you can do it, do ethernet. Not just speed that matters but also latency. Videos and apps simply load faster that require an online connection -- noticeably faster on ethernet than on wi-fi.
 
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w5jck

Suspended
Nov 9, 2013
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I agree with @peripatetic. These days almost every new tech toy and device uses Wi-Fi, including smart plugs, smart lightbulbs, etc. Before you know it, you have 30+ Wi-Fi connected devices, and it can get to be like a traffic jam on the way to work. Ethernet helps a lot, and yes, 100 mbps is enough to get reliable streaming of 4K content.
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
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s this going to really be an issue? My internet speed is 200 mbps. But do I even need 100 mbps to stream non-4K media?
100Mbps is overkill for streaming services like Netflix, Hulu, ATV+, etc. in 4K, and super-overkill for 1080p and below.

Netflix recommends 5Mbps for 1080p, and 25Mbps for 4K, but in reality, it never goes above 3.5Mbps for 1080p or 17.5Mbps for 4K.

Other streaming services can be higher, such as ATV+. I think it can be 60Mbps for 4K content. Still well below the capabilities of the ATV4's Ethernet link speed.

If you streamed your own local content from a media server, maybe you might have something with really high bit-rates, but it sounds like this is not your scenario.


Another reason to keep things wired is for latency, as some have already mentioned, but if you are just streaming video, you probably wouldn't notice a difference between wired and wifi.


Network congestion could be a good reason to go wired, especially if you are using a 2.4GHz band.


If you used something like Steam Link, or even screen sharing/AirPlay, this could have both a positive and/or negative performance change when going to a wired setup. Although, I think I remember seeing somewhere that Steam Link was capped at 100Mbps.
 

You’re not me

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2021
151
188
I run ethernet to anything and everything that has a port in it and turn off the Wi-Fi. That leaves much more bandwidth available to the things that need to be wireless, phone, watches, iPads, HomePod minis and occasionally using a MacBook away from a desk. It also helps Bluetooth devices since they’re 2.4ghz. If you’re going to pull cable through walls and such, think way ahead about what network speeds you might need in the not to distant future. A year and a half ago when I did my house I used cat.8 cable and at the time I thought it was overkill but I’m already putting in 10g switches so it won’t be too many more years before I have to upgrade.
 

techwarrior

macrumors 65816
Jul 30, 2009
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Ditto what others have said, go with ethernet whenever possible and 100Mbps is more than enough for ATV.

For those with an interest in the bits and bytes of why preserving capacity for WiFi only devices is a good strategy, a look under the hood of the tech is helpful.

There are two aspects to the strategy. One is bandwidth, think of a highway at rush hour. A one lane road can handle X cars, two lanes, X * 2, etc. Networks have limits to how much traffic can pass through a port, and WiFi is basically a single port on the network. Yes, some WiFi routers have multiple frequencies, but everything passes through a single port to the wired uplink or even between the radio receiver\transmitter and network ports.

Routers and Access Points have bandwidth limitations on both a per port basis, and on a device basis. Part of how the bandwidth is accommodated is memory or cache used to store every little packet until it can be processed and forwarded (or discarded) to the right destination. A 4 port gigabit switch has 4 1000mbps ports, but the backplane can typically manage 2-3 times as much bandwidth so that no one port gets bogged down. This is helpful for peer to peer traffic like copying a file between two wired computers and leaving some capacity for devices using the other ports.

The second is access control. Wired networks, and Wireless networks face a lot of noise and conflict. Wired benefits from requiring a physical connection, nothing passes through without being physically connected, but even that can face collisions where multiple signals arrive at the same time (or too many arrive at the same time) and fail to get processed so must be retransmitted, the cache sometimes can't keep up with bursts of data.

Wireless adds exposure to any signal in the vicinity on the same frequency. Think of AM radio in your car, and how stations bleed over each other at greater distances. Where radio lacks data to identify the source of a single, WiFi and ethernet have some identifiers that allow the access point (or router) to filter out signals that don't belong on the network. But, it all hits the radio receiver at once and gets queued to be filtered. Too much and the queue flushes and requires a packet be retransmitted. So, anything you can do to minimize signals hitting the radio will improve your network speeds.

What are the things that hit the receiver? Anything with a signal in the same frequency ranges. 2.4Ghz WiFi is particularly vulnerable. Radar, Microwaves, wireless home phones, bluetooth, wireless keyboards and mice all transmit signals on frequencies that might match the WiFi signal frequencies. So, every signal sent to and from these is in the air, will be "heard" by the access point, and analyzed to determine if it is noise or legitimate. That not only delays legitimate traffic, but can cause temporary outages. Queues to manage this are limited and data packets expire after a short duration. Apps monitor for acknowledgement of receipt of a packet and failing to receive an ACK in time will force them to retransmit a packet, adding to the congestion.

All of this to say, anything you can wire takes stress off of the network to process more legitimate traffic. Wiring devices, avoiding frequencies in the same range as neighboring networks, using 5Ghz on devices that are capable, even creating a faraday cage around your home to block signals from neighbors (ok, that may be a little extreme). Obviously, wired connections are an easy way to offload some congestion if reaching the location with ethernet cable is possible.
 

Canyda

macrumors 65816
Sep 7, 2020
1,017
1,242
I run my main ATV on wired connection to my router and it's amazing.

The other ATV is literally on the other side of the dividing wall on wifi and it still gets more than 200 mps, which is also pretty terrific.
 

davidg4781

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Oct 28, 2006
2,806
402
Alice, TX
Thanks for all the feedback!

I ordered another Velop node to have 3 total to match the 3 Apple TVs I have. I HOPE to plug them all in via ethernet. One node is currently getting about 75% of the download speed of my 200mbps so I might move that, but I think it'll be ok.

There's a smart TV one of of them. I'm even thinking of putting that on ethernet, but I don't think we use the smart TV features though so that might just get the wifi turned off.
 

Boyd01

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
7,716
4,598
New Jersey Pine Barrens
I'm gonna say "it depends". I have two ATV4's and initially wired them on gigabit ethernet. I agree that 100BT is plenty fast for streaming, but these devices just "feel" kind of slow in terms of the user interface, showing the contents of playlists, etc. When I upgraded from the ATV3, they definitely felt slower due to the more graphics-heavy interface. Now, my situation is probably different because I have a Mini as an iTunes server with about 600 movies and 600 TV shows and that is where I noticed the difference. That server is on ethernet and can come close to saturating it.

Anyway, one ATV4 is at the far end of the house and ethernet seems to work better for that one. But I switched to 802.11ac wifi on the bedroom ATV4, which is only 10 feet from the wifi router. It feels a bit faster than the hardwired ethernet ATV4, but the difference is not that great.

I also prefer hardwiring everything on my gigabit LAN, but in this case there was a slight improvement over wifi. Now, I live alone and no longer use my old laptop, so my iPhone is really the only other thing that uses wifi. So, IMO, I don't think there's a simple answer to this question. It depends on your network, your devices and their distance from the wifi router.
 
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Dimwhit

macrumors 68020
Apr 10, 2007
2,068
297
I run ethernet to anything and everything that has a port in it and turn off the Wi-Fi. That leaves much more bandwidth available to the things that need to be wireless, phone, watches, iPads, HomePod minis and occasionally using a MacBook away from a desk. It also helps Bluetooth devices since they’re 2.4ghz. If you’re going to pull cable through walls and such, think way ahead about what network speeds you might need in the not to distant future. A year and a half ago when I did my house I used cat.8 cable and at the time I thought it was overkill but I’m already putting in 10g switches so it won’t be too many more years before I have to upgrade.
I just wired my house for Ethernet, and I put in really good Cat8. Not only does it future-proof me for quite a while, but the cable I used allows for Power over Ethernet, which will be nice.

I'm definitely on board with Ethernet to everything you can (ATV, desktop computers, TVs, etc.).

Edit: By the way, which 10g switch did you get, and do you like it? I need to get one.
 

Boyd01

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Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
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New Jersey Pine Barrens
I'm definitely on board with Ethernet to everything you can (ATV, desktop computers, TVs, etc.).

Bear in mind that the Apple TV 4 only has 100-Base-T ethernet which limits it to about 13 MB/sec. But it also has 802.11ac wifi which can provide something like 65MB/sec (in my experience with an Airport Time Capsule). So I don't think this is quite such a simple choice. You have to consider your router's capabilities, its placement in relation to the ATV, the overall load on your network and whether the ATV would actually benefit from a faster connection.
 
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Tapper

macrumors member
Dec 30, 2013
53
12
Los Angeles, CA
As of two days ago I'm experimenting. My ATV 4k 1st gen has always been wired but it only obtains 80Mbps because it is constrained by my MoCA 1.1 ECB2500C network adapter, limited by its 100Mbps ethernet port. But I connected the ATV to my Ubiquiti AP-AC-Pro access point and now the throughput is 225Mbps which is what my Spectrum internet maxes out at.

I've been watching the movie Eternals in 4K DolbyVision IMAX on my new LG C1 65" OLED and boy does it look beautiful.

I suppose I'll revert back to the hardwired connection simply to reduce network traffic and congestion as several posts have already addressed.
 

davidg4781

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Oct 28, 2006
2,806
402
Alice, TX
As of two days ago I'm experimenting. My ATV 4k 1st gen has always been wired but it only obtains 80Mbps because it is constrained by my MoCA 1.1 ECB2500C network adapter, limited by its 100Mbps ethernet port. But I connected the ATV to my Ubiquiti AP-AC-Pro access point and now the throughput is 225Mbps which is what my Spectrum internet maxes out at.

I've been watching the movie Eternals in 4K DolbyVision IMAX on my new LG C1 65" OLED and boy does it look beautiful.

I suppose I'll revert back to the hardwired connection simply to reduce network traffic and congestion as several posts have already addressed.

Were you not getting that same beautiful picture over Ethernet? 2/3 of my TVs are 720p so Ethernet looks to be able to support that with no issue.
 

Tapper

macrumors member
Dec 30, 2013
53
12
Los Angeles, CA
Were you not getting that same beautiful picture over Ethernet? 2/3 of my TVs are 720p so Ethernet looks to be able to support that with no issue.
All streaming was satisfactory with my wired 100 ethernet connection. Like so many have already stated above you only need 25Mbps at most for 4k and per this summary article. I just wanted to see if streaming 4k DolbyVision IMAX was going to struggle over wifi. I had no reason to believe it would other than wifi traffic congestion.
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
6,666
2,906
Edit: By the way, which 10g switch did you get, and do you like it? I need to get one.

I have tried 2 10Gbe switches:

QNAP QSW-1208-8C
NETGEAR 8-Port 10G Ethernet Smart Managed Pro Switch ((XS708T)

Had problems with the QNAP being some 4 times slower going from my iMac to a QNAP NAS. The unit was replaced, but still had the same problem.

Replaced with the Netgear and the problem went away. However I have recently encountered the same problem, iperf3 results to a QNAP NAS are 4 times slower than from the QNAP to my iMacPro. The problem may be an issue with my anti-virus (Sophos). A fix was due in November, but so far hasn't appeared. Unsure now whether the issue with the QNAP was their issue or some issue with my IMac hardware and/or software.
 
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rayward

macrumors 68000
Mar 13, 2007
1,697
88
Houston, TX
I have buffering issue on my ATV 4th gen when watching movies from my own library. I have gigabit Ethernet and a Speedtest on the ATV gives me 90+mb/s, so it’s not the connection. The iMac it streams from gets 900+mb/s so it’s not that either. Everything is wired. The router is the AT&T box that comes with the fiber service.

Even when watching older 720p content from my library, it simply doesn’t buffer. The gray line never gets ahead of where we are in the movie, so it is always on the edge and regularly freezes. I have tried restarting the ATV multiple times. It has plenty of memory available - enough to store an entire movie. Movies used to buffer 5-10 minutes in advance, but now it’s probably only a few seconds.

Would a 4K ATV fix this? I know it has a faster network modem and processor, but are they even the problem?

Any help would be appreciated because, right now, it’s unwatchable.
 
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-Gonzo-

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2015
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I have buffering issue on my ATV 4th gen when watching movies from my own library. I have gigabit Ethernet and a Speedtest on the ATV gives me 90+mb/s, so it’s not the connection. The iMac it streams from gets 900+mb/s so it’s not that either. Everything is wired. The router is the AT&T box that comes with the fiber service.

Even when watching older 720p content from my library, it simply doesn’t buffer. The gray line never gets ahead of where we are in the movie, so it is always on the edge and regularly freezes. I have tried restarting the ATV multiple times. It has plenty of memory available - enough to store an entire movie. Movies used to buffer 5-10 minutes in advance, but now it’s probably only a few seconds.

Would a 4K ATV fix this? I know it has a faster network modem and processor, but are they even the problem?

Any help would be appreciated because, right now, it’s unwatchable.
Is it updated to the latest tvOS version, should be 15.2?

The reason it doesn’t build up a buffer is because you’ve got Quick Start switched on so will play instantly at the best resolution available depending of your bandwidth, whereas turning Quick Start off will store up a buffer beforehand so you could try turning it off and see if that improves things.
Settings - Apps - iTunes Movies and TV Shows.
 
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-Gonzo-

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2015
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Ethernet on AppleTV is only 100 Mbps, as was original posters concern. But not the problem.
Oh ok, didn’t realise that as mines on Wi-Fi and getting 300+
I have edited that part of the post now ?
 

Boyd01

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Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
7,716
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New Jersey Pine Barrens
I have buffering issue on my ATV 4th gen when watching movies from my own library. I have gigabit Ethernet and a Speedtest on the ATV gives me 90+mb/s, so it’s not the connection.

Something odd is happening there. I have an ATV4 on gigabit ethernet with about 1200 movies/TV shows on a 2014 Mini as a server. Never noticed a problem like that. Second ATV4 is connected via 802.11ac wifi and no problems there.
 

davidg4781

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Oct 28, 2006
2,806
402
Alice, TX
Something odd is happening there. I have an ATV4 on gigabit ethernet with about 1200 movies/TV shows on a 2014 Mini as a server. Never noticed a problem like that. Second ATV4 is connected via 802.11ac wifi and no problems there.

Curious… how do you steam those movies? Thought the Apple TV app under library like purchase movies? Or though that Home Share app (I can’t remember for sure what it’s called). I haven’t been able to get that to work for years but it may have been I was still on High Sierra.
 

Boyd01

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
7,716
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New Jersey Pine Barrens
I am running Mojave on the Mini, so that I can still use iTunes. I have home sharing enabled and connect to it from two Apple TV's, a Mac, iPhone and iPad. On the Apple TV, I use the "Computers" app to access the shared library on the Mini. From the iPhone, I would access it via the Library in the Apple TV app. When you tap that, the Mini shows as a shared Library that can be selected.
 
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