8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests

[chucker23n1]

Basing the argument that 8GB in baseline configurations is insufficient because of gaming is a bit of a misnomer. Gaming PCs are not based on the lowest end baseline configurations. Gaming PCs traditionally have been high level configuration machines. If you’re gaming on a windows machine you’re not using a bargain level baseline configuration, why should that be different for a Mac?

As much as I agree, a $1,599 laptop with "Pro" in the name isn't exactly "bargain-level". I can see the argument for the $999 M1 Air, but…

If you’re interested in buying a Mac for gaming (which might not be a good idea due to software availability, anyways) you wouldn’t be interested in buying the lowest level baseline configuration anyways.

Agreed.

 

[pdoherty]

Comparing gaming with 8GB on an iPad to gaming on a Mac with 8GB isn't exactly a true comparison. I'm betting that MacOS is a lot more piggish in terms of the base resources it needs just to get to the desktop and be ready to launch said game.

 

[chetzar]

And that’s how I’ve played real games on my 4GB iPhone. I guess that was all an illusion and not real… Or maybe your concept of what counts as a “real game” is subjective as well…

Phone games and computer gaming are two entirely different things. Largely different types of games and gameplay.

Go try to play Crysis on your phone and let me know how it goes, or GTA, or Diablo 4, Borderlands, etc.. You'd probably also tell me that 30FPS is enough for video games.

 

[Motorola68000]

Well, the Air has had soldered RAM since 2008, and all MacBooks have had it since 2012. And only MacBooks with a discrete GPU didn't have unified memory. That excludes most 13-inch or smaller models, and most below $2,000.

But, "the cheapest MacBook Pro starts at 8 GiB RAM" was a very different statement in 2012 than it is in 2024. That's where the necessity to swap comes from.

It makes my point for me. 8Gb may have been ample in 2008 and 2012....its not ample now as software RAM requirements have increased with some software already specifying 16Gb RAM, and where in 2008 Apple had kept clear from mainstream gaming.

 

[Jim Lahey]

TLDR; 8GB in a computer wearing a Pro monicker in 2024 is the epitome of Cook's Apple and some day soon they're gonna see a decline in business. If they aren't already. Everyone I know in RL is already disillusioned with their antics and has slowed down or completely halted their iPurchases indefinitely. But Apple's response, of course, will be to offer less and charge more. Sad times in tech. The dollar now leads the product instead of following it.

 

[subjonas]

If 8GB is not enough for a good UX in a MBP, then I would think there would be a ton of noise on the internet about reports of poor performance from real users. Is there?

 

[chucker23n1]

If 8GB is not enough for a good UX in a MBP, then I would think there would be a ton of noise on the internet about reports of poor performance from real users. Is there?

You mean other than another 84-page thread?

 

[subjonas]

You mean other than another 84-page thread?

84 pages of actual 8GB M3 MBP owners reporting actual issues or just people lamenting on principle? And if the former, only one single thread?

 

[Jim Lahey]

The clue is in the title TBH.

 

[subjonas]

The clue is in the title TBH.

If this is in reply to me, the question is not whether 8GB can be a bottleneck. I would think that’s obvious. The relevant question is whether offering 8GB on a MBP is justified. And if it’s enough for most people who buy it, ie. they are satisfied, then why would it not be justified?

So my question is what indication is there that most people are not satisfied? That would be things like a high return rate, low customer satisfaction rate, or widespread vocalization of dissatisfaction (from actual owners).

A Youtuber demonstrating that it can be a bottleneck is not an indication of widespread dissatisfaction among owners, nor is any number of long threads of people lamenting on principle.

 

[ric22]

, only one single thread?

There's a whole bunch of threads on the subject on MacRumors.

 

[subjonas]

There's a whole bunch of threads on the subject on MacRumors.

Of actual 8GB MBP owners? Could I trouble you for a link to an example?

By the way, I think I mentioned it before, but in case I didn’t, I don’t doubt there are some unsatisfied owners. Again, what I question is most.

 

[Kal Madda]

If 8GB is not enough for a good UX in a MBP, then I would think there would be a ton of noise on the internet about reports of poor performance from real users. Is there?

Not really. Just some YouTubers who wouldn’t buy the base spec in the first place complaining about it.

 

[Jim Lahey]

TBF if I chose to buy a Reliant Robin I’m unlikely to take to the internet in order to lament the pitfalls of a car with only three wheels, but it’s still a crap car 👍

 

[Kal Madda]

If this is in reply to me, the question is not whether 8GB can be a bottleneck. I would think that’s obvious. The relevant question is whether offering 8GB on a MBP is justified. And if it’s enough for most people who buy it, ie. they are satisfied, then why would it not be justified?

So my question is what indication is there that most people are not satisfied? That would be things like a high return rate, low customer satisfaction rate, or widespread vocalization of dissatisfaction (from actual owners).

A Youtuber demonstrating that it can be a bottleneck is not an indication of widespread dissatisfaction among owners, nor is any number of long threads of people lamenting on principle.

Exactly. The actual data shows that customer satisfaction among Mac customers in general is very high, and that the base spec models sell very well, and so are stocked in higher quantities at stores. There is absolutely no hard data that would support the idea that most base spec customers are dissatisfied, and the data we do have suggests the opposite. We see high sales of the base spec models, and high customer satisfaction among most Mac customers. We don’t see high rates of people returning their base spec Mac’s. There simply isn’t any data that supports the idea that most base spec customers are unhappy with the base spec, and the data seems to suggest the exact opposite, seeing as the base spec models continue to sell very well.

 

[subjonas]

TBF if I chose to buy a Reliant Robin I’m unlikely to take to the internet in order to lament the pitfalls of a car with only three wheels, but it’s still a crap car 👍

For widespread dissatisfaction, it’s highly unlikely that all customers will be silent. If anything silence is usually an indication of satisfaction, not dissatisfaction. There will always be some percentage of people who will report dissatisfaction. An example would be the butterfly keyboard—there were many many reports, so we could infer that the issue was fairly widespread.

 

[ric22]

Of actual 8GB MBP owners? Could I trouble you for a link to an example?

By the way, I think I mentioned it before, but in case I didn’t, I don’t doubt there are some unsatisfied owners. Again, what I question is most.

I'd have to do a search to find those threads, the same as you. They definitely exist so should be easy to find with keywords.

In terms of "most", it's hard/impossible to quantify!

I own a 8GB MacBook Air M1 for personal use, for what that's worth, and memory pressure and swap are high on it regularly, and I do my heavy lifting on a much better specced work MacBook Pro, which is MUCH faster at demanding tasks, and not just because of the SoC.

 

[subjonas]

Exactly. The actual data shows that customer satisfaction among Mac customers in general is very high, and that the base spec models sell very well, and so are stocked in higher quantities at stores. There is absolutely no hard data that would support the idea that most base spec customers are dissatisfied, and the data we do have suggests the opposite. We see high sales of the base spec models, and high customer satisfaction among most Mac customers. We don’t see high rates of people returning their base spec Mac’s. There simply isn’t any data that supports the idea that most base spec customers are unhappy with the base spec, and the data seems to suggest the exact opposite, seeing as the base spec models continue to sell very well.

Yes, if that config is selling well and customers are satisfied, I see no basis to demand it be removed as an option.
I strongly suspect the data you referenced is correct, but do you happen to know where that data can be found?

 

[subjonas]

I'd have to do a search to find those threads, the same as you. They definitely exist so should be easy to find with keywords.

In terms of "most", it's hard/impossible to quantify!

I own a 8GB MacBook Air M1 for personal use, for what that's worth, and memory pressure and swap are high on it regularly, and I do my heavy lifting on a much better specced work MacBook Pro, which is MUCH faster at demanding tasks, and not just because of the SoC.

I appreciate the data point. I’m sure it’s true for you and others.
Yes, I agree, it is very hard/impossible for us to quantify “most”. It’s hard/impossible for us to conclude many things, yet we on this forum do a lot lol.

 

[ric22]

I strongly suspect the data you referenced is correct, but do you happen to know where that data can be found?

I do look forward to the answer to this 😂😂😂

 

[subjonas]

I do look forward to the answer to this 😂😂😂

Yeah I'm not sure we have access to the hard data, it might be estimates via some third party firm or something, which is better than nothing. But yeah, I think it's important to always reference as much as possible.

 

[AJB1971]

I see that Apple is now offering a standard configuration M3 Air with 16GB of RAM.

 

[Kal Madda]

Yes, if that config is selling well and customers are satisfied, I see no basis to demand it be removed as an option.
I strongly suspect the data you referenced is correct, but do you happen to know where that data can be found?

Here’s a link to numbers for Mac customer satisfaction: https://www.cultofmac.com/831288/mac-consumer-satisfaction-acsi-survey-2023/

And as to the stores stocking more of the base spec models, this is something I cannot find an official report from stores talking about which models they stock more of, but I have seen this at BestBuy in my location to be the case. Also, many of the anti-8GBers in this debate have said the same thing that stores stock more of the base spec models, and have argued that that’s a reason for moving the base spec to 16GB so they can get them easier at stores. So stores stocking more of the base spec models is largely uncontested, and many of the people who are even on the other side of the argument have had this experience. But there is some data in the way of the litany of threads were people discuss the base spec models being the most stocked models in Apple Stores such as this one:

Do the apple store stock every configurat… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

And this one:

Does the Apple store sell anything other than basic configurations? - AppleNova Forums

Does the Apple store sell anything other than basic configurations? Purchasing Advice

forums.applenova.com

If you look up “Apple Stores only stock base models” or something like that, you should see a lot of forum threads about this going back several years, so clearly it seems to have been a thing for several years now.

 

[JonnyMacx86]

I'd have to do a search to find those threads, the same as you. They definitely exist so should be easy to find with keywords.

In terms of "most", it's hard/impossible to quantify!

I own a 8GB MacBook Air M1 for personal use, for what that's worth, and memory pressure and swap are high on it regularly, and I do my heavy lifting on a much better specced work MacBook Pro, which is MUCH faster at demanding tasks, and not just because of the SoC.

The ideal customer base for the 8gb model is shrinking, but it's still there, in my opinion. I don't see my elderly parents needing or noticing more than 8gb on an M-series Mac.

 

[chucker23n1]

If this is in reply to me, the question is not whether 8GB can be a bottleneck. I would think that’s obvious. The relevant question is whether offering 8GB on a MBP is justified. And if it’s enough for most people who buy it, ie. they are satisfied, then why would it not be justified?

If we go purely by "people will buy it", we can also put an Intel Meteor Lake Core Ultra 7 in there. We can replace the trackpad with one from Synaptics. We don't need mini-LED in the display. Nor the good speakers. Lots of people buy laptops with mediocre speakers. The base-level Air could have an A14 instead of an M1. Or an A12Z, even! It would still be plenty fast.

"They are satisfied" isn't a sufficient basis for an argument. The offering shouldn't just be based on "eh, it's good enough".

So my question is what indication is there that most people are not satisfied? That would be things like a high return rate, low customer satisfaction rate, or widespread vocalization of dissatisfaction (from actual owners).

The product otherwise has great specs. The M3 in particular is so fast and efficient that it largely balances out this bottleneck. But that doesn't mean that 8 isn't a bottleneck in 2024.

I still haven't found a good argument why the same base RAM is OK twelve years later. (No, "well, they also didn't change the material for the chassis in twelve years" isn't an argument.) It simply is nowhere near as strong a spec as it was back then.