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Other A battery scientist's view
- Thread starter decafjava
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I first used iOS over 9 years ago. I used Android like 6 years ago. I am aware of Android's CPU throttling apps. Works better if rooted. For certain Androids, they have power saving mode which throttles down their CPU.
HTC One M7 - 1.7 GHz quad core
Power save - 1.2 GHz quad core
Xiaomi Mi 3 - 2.26 GHz quad core
Three levels of power save -
First two highest was full speed. The extreme was at 1.1+ GHz. I used to keep it at extreme mode when playing games as it kept it cooler but would notice some lag when opening apps or whatever.
The problem isn't Apple throttling the CPU. The problem is Apple not telling us and not giving us an option if we want it throttled or not.
Do we have a choice what clock speed it will hit? Anything from 600 MHz is not liveable for me. That's going back to the previous decade's smartphones like the Bold 9000 and iPhone 3Gs.
For a lithium ion battery to be EOL at 70%-80% is not good news. I can get my iPhone below 10% every day if I wanted to. There is 365 days in a year. And 500 full cycles is ideal temperatures and charging habits. It could be far less than 500. So within a year to 18 months, my iPhone SE becomes the 3Gs.
Loyalists starting to feel like Marsellus Wallace (Ving Rhames) in Pulp Fiction. Bend over and take it. Give us the option for what clock speed we want and if we want it throttled or not. For Apple, it's never about those options. It's more about whether you will like it or not.
HTC One M7 - 1.7 GHz quad core
Power save - 1.2 GHz quad core
Xiaomi Mi 3 - 2.26 GHz quad core
Three levels of power save -
First two highest was full speed. The extreme was at 1.1+ GHz. I used to keep it at extreme mode when playing games as it kept it cooler but would notice some lag when opening apps or whatever.
The problem isn't Apple throttling the CPU. The problem is Apple not telling us and not giving us an option if we want it throttled or not.
Do we have a choice what clock speed it will hit? Anything from 600 MHz is not liveable for me. That's going back to the previous decade's smartphones like the Bold 9000 and iPhone 3Gs.
For a lithium ion battery to be EOL at 70%-80% is not good news. I can get my iPhone below 10% every day if I wanted to. There is 365 days in a year. And 500 full cycles is ideal temperatures and charging habits. It could be far less than 500. So within a year to 18 months, my iPhone SE becomes the 3Gs.
Loyalists starting to feel like Marsellus Wallace (Ving Rhames) in Pulp Fiction. Bend over and take it. Give us the option for what clock speed we want and if we want it throttled or not. For Apple, it's never about those options. It's more about whether you will like it or not.
Why? Because for whatever reason, the CPUs of certain iPhone models draw more power than certain degraded batteries can handle. There’s no software fix to magically fix that beyond throttling the CPU. A new battery, however, can fix the problem. Simple as that. If it is known that Apple intentionally shipped defective power management chips or defective batteries, then there will be more to this situation. Currently, any attempts to imply defective components are baseless speculation and should be treated as such until concrete evidence is discovered. No reason for people to lose their minds and make stuff up.
What's the difference? If you were to update a 4 year old iPhone to the newest iOS it would be so slow and laggy it would be considered useless to most of us anyway.
I'd rather have older software and a working battery/OS, than new software and a degraded user experience.
What is total BS about it? This is the case across ALL batteries from all manufacturers. There's nothing BS here at all. The 500-cycle rating specifically means that's how many cycles it takes before the battery is around 70% of its original capacity. Would you rather that it be at 0% original capacity at 500 cycles? Is that somehow less BS?
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Never, ever, ever, ever going to happen. This is not an optional thing that you can just decide to participate in, it's because the battery is no longer at peak health and therefore cannot sustain CPU/GPU usage spikes that could put it below its minimum safe voltage. So your clock speed option does what? Just causes your phone to shut down a bunch? Or you'd rather the battery combust or stop working because you think you need to have a choice at all times on your two year old device with an aging battery?
Apple needs to be more upfront about battery health and its affects on experience, and they need to offer the customer the ability to get or pay for a replacement battery at the very second that the throttling begins. That's all that needs to happen, and that's all that probably will happen. If they're going to be more aggressive in the TDP of their mobile chipsets like they've been since the 6S, they need to follow all the way through with allowing the devices to be serviced to remain at their original performance beyond the 1.5-2 year mark if a user so desires.
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It's not reliable information, and I highly doubt Apple truly intends to throttle a device with 92% battery health. This is mass hysteria and Apple needs to do more than a 3-line PR response. I wouldn't be surprised if an antennagate-style event is being prepped to both set the record straight on this garbage and offer some more robust solutions for customers like not turning them away from paying for their own battery replacement.
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Yes, their pants are down around their ankles while they are pounding us from behind...so to speak.
Common sense trumps fake expert witness.
If batteries are known to degrade about 20% over the useful lifetime than make it 20% bigger to begin with.
What's better for user experience, .5mm thinner phone with throttling or .5mm thicker phone without throttling?
If batteries are known to degrade about 20% over the useful lifetime than make it 20% bigger to begin with.
What's better for user experience, .5mm thinner phone with throttling or .5mm thicker phone without throttling?
The battery would still be degraded. There might be more capacity, but the degradation would still be there. Talk about common sense...
Ooops smoking gun...
Common sense also says the earth is flat and Aussies can't be "Down Under" or they'd fall off...besides your solution sounds like "turning up to 11."
He is very wrong, I posted GB results on my 6S with the original battery which is at 93% capacity and my scores were nearly identical at 20% or 95%. I also did one at 3% and had the same result. Fake news at it’s best...
Right. Because, Samsung doesn't intentionally deceive their customers like Apple does.
The reality is, all these smart phone manufacturers likely have secrets or tendencies that are not exploited. Apple got exploited even if it was in the fine writing under their license agreements. Samsung has their tendencies to, its just not everybody is aware of what they are.
What
That's not how a battery works. The battery will still be degraded and will not handle spikes of power and such as well. It'll simply randomly shut off and on longer because there be more mAh The real preventive measure here would be to try to improve the batteries from a relatively low 500 cycle count, to the more reasonable 1000 that the iPad and Mac lines have. Apple should have been more clear on this however, especially when they release fast charging, heres a new feature, but we won't tell you it'll wear out your battery faster which will lead it to be throttled.
If folks would take the time to research Li-Ion batteries, they wouldn't post as much rubbish.
EOL for Li-Ion is considered to be 80%. That means that after a full charge, the battery capacity is at only 80% of what it's capacity was when brand new. They can be used at 80% but it won't last as long and the voltage will probably be degraded.
And don't be confused when says 100% charged. They are just saying that no more electrons can be pushed into the battery pack, hence it's at "100%"
What I took from my research is three things
1. At 80% of capacity, EOL has been reached
2. At 2 years, you are probably close to EOL, yes they degraded even when sitting on the shelf.
3. 500 battery charge/discharge cycles, EOL
Any combination of those three will degrade the battery.
These are not our fathers carbon zinc batteries.
EOL for Li-Ion is considered to be 80%. That means that after a full charge, the battery capacity is at only 80% of what it's capacity was when brand new. They can be used at 80% but it won't last as long and the voltage will probably be degraded.
And don't be confused when says 100% charged. They are just saying that no more electrons can be pushed into the battery pack, hence it's at "100%"
What I took from my research is three things
1. At 80% of capacity, EOL has been reached
2. At 2 years, you are probably close to EOL, yes they degraded even when sitting on the shelf.
3. 500 battery charge/discharge cycles, EOL
Any combination of those three will degrade the battery.
These are not our fathers carbon zinc batteries.
Pretty much all of this. I understand people being upset about seemingly being deceived by Apple, but it really seems to be getting to the point of building a mountain out of a molehill. The one thing I’ve thought during this whole situation is that maybe Apple has designed their chips to be so powerful, that they didn’t take into consideration what power needs would be placed on the battery by all the components (including SoC) as the battery ages. It seems like they could also reduce screen brightness or other such things, so that the power draw would be less; but they probably felt the least impact on the user experience would be to reduce performance.
Here is a discussion (transcript with link to podcast) of Apple's strategy for battery and power management science over at iMore.
This discussion between various analysts and experts does a great job of explaining the complexities of running a high power processor on a lithium-ion battery. It is a lengthy read, so it is unlikely that the flood of trolls awakened by the hope of controversy will have the attention span to read it / listen to it. However, if you're the type of person who clicked on this thread with a non-clickbait title, you may well find the discussion enlightening.
This discussion between various analysts and experts does a great job of explaining the complexities of running a high power processor on a lithium-ion battery. It is a lengthy read, so it is unlikely that the flood of trolls awakened by the hope of controversy will have the attention span to read it / listen to it. However, if you're the type of person who clicked on this thread with a non-clickbait title, you may well find the discussion enlightening.
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If you want to learn how batteries work this article is super informative
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
You are beyond wrong. When a battery reaches 80% capacity, the chemicals become unstable. This mean thats the you will see massive decrease in performance. Once under 80% health remaining, its not unusual for the health to jump from 80% to 40% to 70% to 30% to 80% all in 30 seconds. In addition, this is when phones may start shutting off randomly at 50% battery remaining. Batteries are only chemicals, plain and simple as that. At 80% the chemicals become unstable and thus the battery is at its end of its life. It can still be used, but your performance will be horrible and have zero reliability.
>>Apple needs to be more upfront about battery health and its affects on experience, and they need to offer the customer the ability to get or pay for a replacement battery at the very second that the throttling begins.
It's this. Apple needs to expose some of the self-analytics to the customer, to be able to see the battery life themselves. And give the option to replace the battery, even if the analytics say the battery is within normal life.
My 6 was getting SUPER slow (after the infamous iOS update that "fixed" the early shutdowns I having), and the analytics said my battery was still within life, so they wouldn't let me pay to replace it. I ended up buying a new iphone 8, partly because the phone was so bad, I couldn't wait for the X to come out.
My word, the twisting and fact shifting on this forum by those whiteknighting Apple is breathtaking. It really is pointless arguing because the protagonists just keep shifting the goalposts.
The "Scientist" never said that. It has been added on by the Author.
The "Scientist" never said that. It has been added on by the Author.
Or throttle the CPU out of the box to increase the window of optimal performance? Make it so the iphone runs at a speed that only needs a battery at 80% health?