A gamer's lament: Apple please let us game on the Mac!

[diamond.g]

Maybe this means Destiny 2 on the Mac?

 

[JMacHack]

But wasn't that the point of the whole LTT Linux challenge? Could someone who doesn't know Linux just use it for gaming? Is Linux ready for prime time for the general consumer? Clearly even by your response the answer is no.

I wasn’t necessarily talking about that challenge but that’s a good place to start. When a warning message says “you’ll **** up your computer if you do this!” It’s generally a good idea to not **** up your computer.

And going with pop_OS! For your dd when Manjaro and Ubuntu exist is either deliberately being dumb or actually being a bonehead.

While there is a certain subset of PC gamers hostile to the Mac, I also believe gamers are more likely to be Mac users than the general public.

I have no data to back this up, but I think it’s a fair assumption that you’re incorrect.

People who play games as a hobby (rather than as casual entertainment) are often tech enthusiasts, and tech enthusiasts are more likely to buy fancy computers. A gaming desktop and a Mac laptop is a common combination among the middle-aged gamers I know, while the only people buying gaming laptops are those who need GPU performance for ML work.

I follow for the first argument but not the second. Even before the current market cluster**** having a laptop and a desktop was a somewhat expensive proposition. More than a few people I knew just used a decently powerful laptop as a solution for both.

 

[JMacHack]

Maybe this means Destiny 2 on the Mac?

Snowballs chance in hell.

 

[diamond.g]

Snowballs chance in hell.

Well it does say new platforms, which I suppose could mean Linux, but are we sure Bungie won't make a game for macOS?

 

[maflynn]

I wasn’t necessarily talking about that challenge but that’s a good place to start. When a warning message says “you’ll **** up your computer if you do this!” It’s generally a good idea to not **** up your computer.

I won't deny that, but when faced by a wall of text too many people, especially just regular consumers or someone in a rush as Linus was, they let it go.

Also I will say that is incredibly poor design, in that trying to install Steam, and it actually uninstalls the DE. Again it goes back to the point of how Linux is not an OS ready for the masses - just my $.02

 

[Colstan]

But wasn't that the point of the whole LTT Linux challenge? Could someone who doesn't know Linux just use it for gaming? Is Linux ready for prime time for the general consumer?

I agree that Linux is absoutely not for the average person. In general though, I honestly think it's best not to read too much into what Linus does. He's an entertainer, more than anything else, and he know his audience. There's a reason that he is constantly "dropping" expensive hardware in his videos, and it's not because he is clumsy. He's self-aware enough to know what he is doing and clowns on his own voice. Anthony is the only serious presenter on his channel, and even he's getting sucked into the entertainer vortex. If you want serious analysis, that also happens to be entertaining, then Steve and the two Patricks over at Gamer's Nexus are better, in my opinion.

Until I used a MacBook Air for iOS and unix dev classes I was in that staunchly anti-apple mentality. I know first hand the vitrol towards apple devices.

While I can only speak for myself, I believe I understand the mindset of the hardcore PC gamer. I know, because I once was one. Back in the day, I used to build my own PCs, specced them out with the fastest hardware I could afford, and overclocked the hell out of my CPU, memory and graphics card. I was rather proud of my accomplishments, and my actual knowledge was outsized by my belief in my own knowledge.

I hated Apple and thought the Mac was a toy. That's even though I had only used the classic Mac OS back in school and had never even seen OS X in person, let alone used it. I was a total Intel and Microsoft fan, and even owned stock in both companies. Apple was only on my radar when I derided the Mac and recommended everyone use a PC, or even let me build one for them, because of my vast knowledge.

Now, fast forward to when Apple transitioned the Mac from PowerPC to Intel. Steve Jobs announced it at WWDC 2005 and showed off a Power Mac with a Pentium inside. This gave me an opportunity that I had never had before: try out OS X. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I had become increasingly disenchanted with Windows. The Ronald McDonald theme for Win XP was not to my liking, I had constantly gone back to the Win95 style that I was familiar with just to "get it out of the way". I got sick of reinstalling Windows every six months because of inherent slowdowns that plagued it.

So, I used the simple hacks to put OS X on my PC, and a few months later I had purchased my first Mac mini. I had other priorities in life than overclocking and building a muscle gaming machine. In fact, I think I spent more time planning my next gaming PC than actually playing games.

Now, I only use macOS, don't care about Windows or PC beyond being a sideshow curiosity, and will be happy to leave Intel behind when I finally switch to Apple Silicon in the coming years. If I had a time machine to tell my old self that I'd only be using a Mac some day then it would cause a rip in space-time due to the relativistic paradox of my former PC obsessed self.

I still keep the option in the back of my mind to build a PC "some day", but having just tried (and deleted) Windows 11 and considering Intel chips are a hot mess, I don't see that happening anytime soon. My journey aside, all you have to do is look at the comments section of Linus' click-bait videos to see the legions who think like I once did.

 

[JouniS]

I follow for the first argument but not the second. Even before the current market cluster**** having a laptop and a desktop was a somewhat expensive proposition. More than a few people I knew just used a decently powerful laptop as a solution for both.

Maybe it's my bias from having lived mostly in high cost of living areas. Desktop computers are pretty cheap next to the physical space required by the desk. If you can afford the space for an external monitor, you can probably afford a separate gaming desktop. Right now, the little office corner in my home with two desks and a single chair costs something like $250/month.

 

[Thysanoptera]

In fact, I think I spent more time planning my next gaming PC than actually playing games.

That gave me a chuckle, ngl. I have 3 PCs in my room, all with 3080/3090 GPUs, Zen 3 Cpus, ultra wide g-sync high refresh screens, one for flight sims, one for racing, one for the rest, and I'm not really using them. My favorite pass time right now is seeing what game can I run on M1 Max and if I get it to work in a satisfactory way it is somehow much more valuable to me.

I'd rather play such a game on Mac, from a very limited selection. A game that normally would be buried somewhere deep in the thousands of games I have between Steam/GoG etc on PC and never get a chance to be installed. I know it is weird, I'm literally a single button on my KVM switch away from playing latest big box AAAAAA game on the best hardware money can buy (if you're lucky enough to actually get one) and I just don't feel like it anymore. Maybe I'm just getting old while overcompensating for shortcomings during childhood, subconsciously trying to recreate the excitement of the floppy disk or tape copied from a friend containing a game. Any game.

 

[the8thark]

Well it does say new platforms, which I suppose could mean Linux, but are we sure Bungie won't make a game for macOS?

A modern port / remake of the Marathon Trilogy would be nice.

 

[MacCheetah3]

I agree that Linux is absoutely not for the average person. In general though, I honestly think it's best not to read too much into what Linus does. He's an entertainer, more than anything else, and he know his audience. There's a reason that he is constantly "dropping" expensive hardware in his videos, and it's not because he is clumsy. He's self-aware enough to know what he is doing and clowns on his own voice. Anthony is the only serious presenter on his channel, and even he's getting sucked into the entertainer vortex. If you want serious analysis, that also happens to be entertaining, then Steve and the two Patricks over at Gamer's Nexus are better, in my opinion.

While I can only speak for myself, I believe I understand the mindset of the hardcore PC gamer. I know, because I once was one. Back in the day, I used to build my own PCs, specced them out with the fastest hardware I could afford, and overclocked the hell out of my CPU, memory and graphics card. I was rather proud of my accomplishments, and my actual knowledge was outsized by my belief in my own knowledge.

I hated Apple and thought the Mac was a toy. That's even though I had only used the classic Mac OS back in school and had never even seen OS X in person, let alone used it. I was a total Intel and Microsoft fan, and even owned stock in both companies. Apple was only on my radar when I derided the Mac and recommended everyone use a PC, or even let me build one for them, because of my vast knowledge.

Now, fast forward to when Apple transitioned the Mac from PowerPC to Intel. Steve Jobs announced it at WWDC 2005 and showed off a Power Mac with a Pentium inside. This gave me an opportunity that I had never had before: try out OS X. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I had become increasingly disenchanted with Windows. The Ronald McDonald theme for Win XP was not to my liking, I had constantly gone back to the Win95 style that I was familiar with just to "get it out of the way". I got sick of reinstalling Windows every six months because of inherent slowdowns that plagued it.

So, I used the simple hacks to put OS X on my PC, and a few months later I had purchased my first Mac mini. I had other priorities in life than overclocking and building a muscle gaming machine. In fact, I think I spent more time planning my next gaming PC than actually playing games.

Now, I only use macOS, don't care about Windows or PC beyond being a sideshow curiosity, and will be happy to leave Intel behind when I finally switch to Apple Silicon in the coming years. If I had a time machine to tell my old self that I'd only be using a Mac some day then it would cause a rip in space-time due to the relativistic paradox of my former PC obsessed self.

I still keep the option in the back of my mind to build a PC "some day", but having just tried (and deleted) Windows 11 and considering Intel chips are a hot mess, I don't see that happening anytime soon. My journey aside, all you have to do is look at the comments section of Linus' click-bait videos to see the legions who think like I once did.

That gave me a chuckle, ngl. I have 3 PCs in my room, all with 3080/3090 GPUs, Zen 3 Cpus, ultra wide g-sync high refresh screens, one for flight sims, one for racing, one for the rest, and I'm not really using them. My favorite pass time right now is seeing what game can I run on M1 Max and if I get it to work in a satisfactory way it is somehow much more valuable to me.

I'd rather play such a game on Mac, from a very limited selection. A game that normally would be buried somewhere deep in the thousands of games I have between Steam/GoG etc on PC and never get a chance to be installed. I know it is weird, I'm literally a single button on my KVM switch away from playing latest big box AAAAAA game on the best hardware money can buy (if you're lucky enough to actually get one) and I just don't feel like it anymore. Maybe I'm just getting old while overcompensating for shortcomings during childhood, subconsciously trying to recreate the excitement of the floppy disk or tape copied from a friend containing a game. Any game.

?

My simple example was going to be Jay(zTwoCents). He has used Threadrippers in gaming rigs. His latest (in progress) home PC is a 12900K, 128GB of DDR5 (?), and liquid cooled RTX 3090 because he can. I think, he does well in component selection and design in regards to appearance. Most of his builds are visually very pleasing.


Mainly because lack of availability to upgrade to the Halo Infinite Special Edition Xbox Series X from my Halo 5 Guardians Special Edition Xbox One, I have an RTX 3080 gaming PC. However, I do not use it for every gaming session (i.e., as much as I would prefer) because the Windows/Xbox/Game Bar is convoluted garbage — at this point trying to get chat to work properly/satisfactory — as well as the need for multiple game launchers/stores. Oh… And, I am still running a 1080p monitor while trying to decide on a 4K display to use with my Mac mini plus that PC.

 

[Colstan]

I know it is weird, I'm literally a single button on my KVM switch away from playing latest big box AAAAAA game on the best hardware money can buy (if you're lucky enough to actually get one) and I just don't feel like it anymore. Maybe I'm just getting old while overcompensating for shortcomings during childhood, subconsciously trying to recreate the excitement of the floppy disk or tape copied from a friend containing a game. Any game.

I feel you. I have the resources and knowhow to build a killer gaming rig and also have a Mac, too. I could still budget for both, but am currently fine with only having a Mac. I just don't have the same level of motivation or priorities that I once did. I've got plenty of games in my GOG/Steam/Epic libraries that are Mac compatible that I have yet to play, never mind the vast PC library.

In my eyes, many of today's major "AAA" titles feel like soulless walking simulators. Shoot the bad guy, look at the pretty graphics, then shoot the next bad guy with your BFG, enjoy realtime ray tracing until you realize you forgot to turn it on, rinse and repeat. That's probably why I prefer indie games because they aren't beholden to whatever the corporate overlords expect of them. It doesn't hurt that many indie titles also have a Mac version.

I still reserve the option of building a PC one day. I'm not going to rule it out, but it just doesn't have the same appeal that it once had. I continue to pay attention to that space, partly because of old habits, partly because of curiosity, but I still remain far more interested in the Mac platform, massive games library or no.

 

[maflynn]

Maybe this means Destiny 2 on the Mac?

Why? Does sony make any other Mac game? Why would they buy a studio, and not have it produce games for their very own platform?

 

[diamond.g]

Why? Does sony make any other Mac game? Why would they buy a studio, and not have it produce games for their very own platform?

Well they did say that Bungie is staying independent and can release games on other platforms. And the slide they posted claimed Destiny was coming to other platforms (they probably meant Linux) so we can keep hope alive, right?

 

[diamond.g]

I feel you. I have the resources and knowhow to build a killer gaming rig and also have a Mac, too. I could still budget for both, but am currently fine with only having a Mac. I just don't have the same level of motivation or priorities that I once did. I've got plenty of games in my GOG/Steam/Epic libraries that are Mac compatible that I have yet to play, never mind the vast PC library.

In my eyes, many of today's major "AAA" titles feel like soulless walking simulators. Shoot the bad guy, look at the pretty graphics, then shoot the next bad guy with your BFG, enjoy realtime ray tracing until you realize you forgot to turn it on, rinse and repeat. That's probably why I prefer indie games because they aren't beholden to whatever the corporate overlords expect of them. It doesn't hurt that many indie titles also have a Mac version.

I still reserve the option of building a PC one day. I'm not going to rule it out, but it just doesn't have the same appeal that it once had. I continue to pay attention to that space, partly because of old habits, partly because of curiosity, but I still remain far more interested in the Mac platform, massive games library or no.

There is also "SportsBall" as a big deal (every year). I wonder how much money Apple could throw at MLB or NFL or Soccer (what is their acronym) for rights to make a game. Tie it to the streaming/broadcast rights as well. That could be a powerful combination, no?

 

[Colstan]

There is also "SportsBall" as a big deal (every year). I wonder how much money Apple could throw at MLB or NFL or Soccer (what is their acronym) for rights to make a game. Tie it to the streaming/broadcast rights as well. That could be a powerful combination, no?

I'm the wrong person to ask because I don't watch sports ball and prefer my tech toys. I suppose Apple could do that, but that really isn't marketable outside North America. Apple could do a lot of things, but they probably won't.

From what I can tell, Apple thinks that Apple Arcade is the way to go for gaming as an extension of the App Store. I dug up this interview that Rene Ritchie did with Apple executives after the M1 Pro/Max were released. The response about gaming stuck in my craw back when I watched it and still does.

When mildly pressed about "AAA" gaming, you can see the result here. It starts at the 21:00 minute mark.

The first thing they respond with is Apple Arcade, even though that wasn't the focus of the question.

My favorite part:

Ritchie: "From my point of view, just lobby your favorite studios. Just tell these studios what these things can do, and then demand they bring their games to them [M1]".

Tim Mallet, VP Platform Architecture: "Sounds good."

Of note is how half-hearted and completely noncommittal Mallet was in his response, particularly the tone in his voice. I wish Ritchie had followed up by asking if Apple are actively lobbying major gaming studios, but Apple only does interviews with friendly press who know when to pull their punches.

 

[JMacHack]

Well it does say new platforms, which I suppose could mean Linux, but are we sure Bungie won't make a game for macOS?

The phrase “copium” comes to mind. I’m not a fortune teller, but I think it’s a safe assumption to say that no new bungie games will be coming to MacOS.

 

[maflynn]

When mildly pressed about "AAA" gaming, you can see the result here. It starts at the 21:00 minute mark.

Ritchie is such a fanboy. I do like what he has to say, but he's so biased/pro apple, that the question was such a puff ball question. I have to disagree the term "These systems make great gaming platforms" I know i can be biased but the current MPB is not a great platform for gaming.

I do think it based on this interview Apple is looking to improve gaming, but with the consolidation of the publishers, I wonder what will come of it.

 

[Thysanoptera]

I know i can be biased but the current MPB is not a great platform for gaming.

I'd say current MBP is the best mobile gaming platform in the world, overall, 100W power envelope, cool, quiet and still mighty powerful, just not very good for gaming at the current software state.

The one below is good for gaming, just not great mobile gaming platform.

 

[Colstan]

Ritchie is such a fanboy. I do like what he has to say, but he's so biased/pro apple, that the question was such a puff ball question.

My original phrasing was "listen if you don't mind shameless sycophancy" but I didn't want to be too hard on the guy. Every time Apple brass shows up with the likes of Gruber, Ritchie or even ATP then you know you're not going to get anything other than softball questions. The ATP guys occasionally go off on Apple about various issues, but they lose their spines as soon as they do an interview. It's probably smart business on their part, and certainly smart marketing on Apple's part, but the listener learns absolutely nothing.

 

[elbert]

Buy a Mac when the game you want to play has been published. Odds are that Mac will be very modern

 

[diamond.g]

I'd say current MBP is the best mobile gaming platform in the world, overall, 100W power envelope, cool, quiet and still mighty powerful, just not very good for gaming at the current software state.

The one below is good for gaming, just not great mobile gaming platform.

Wouldn't the iPhone be the best mobile gaming platform in the world?

 

[Homy]

Sony bought Bungie – it's over.

No, just kidding. But I did toy with the idea that Apple should buy Bungie when Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard. In a parallel universe perhaps.

Funny that Bungie tweets "Bungie has limitless potential to unite friends around the world". As a Mac gamer I beg to differ.

 

[JMacHack]

I have to disagree the term "These systems make great gaming platforms"

If you really want to be pedantic the systems could absolutely be great gaming platforms if things were optimized for it. But as currently? Yeah I’d buy something else for gaming specifically.

Ritchie: "From my point of view, just lobby your favorite studios. Just tell these studios what these things can do, and then demand they bring their games to them [M1]".

Tim Mallet, VP Platform Architecture: "Sounds good."

Of note is how half-hearted and completely noncommittal Mallet was in his response, particularly the tone in his voice. I wish Ritchie had followed up by asking if Apple are actively lobbying major gaming studios, but Apple only does interviews with friendly press who know when to pull their punches.

It’s like asking a stuffy CEO from the 70’s his opinion on video games. “Yeah sure, they’re a fad, whatever kid.”

On the other hand what was he gonna say? “Yeah we suck for gaming”? He’s not gonna talk down his product, and if they are even lobbying companies for ports they wouldn’t tell anyone (it’s Apple, after all).

I'd say current MBP is the best mobile gaming platform in the world, overall, 100W power envelope, cool, quiet and still mighty powerful, just not very good for gaming at the current software state.

Fair point, but there’s no indication of the situation changing so I’d say it’s far from “best”.

The Nintendo Switch exists too.

 

[JMacHack]

Again it goes back to the point of how Linux is not an OS ready for the masses - just my $.02

I was going to argue this point but I ran into too many qualifiers.

I started thinking “well if you use x distro and y desktop environment, etc.) sure it’s easy enough to say but that’s hardly general knowledge.

Basically if all you do is browse Facebook, check email, do taxes, and save pictures (basically what my grandma does), then an Ubuntu or Manjaro machine would do you fine.

However, if you need to step outside those boundaries things become more complex. Games being a particular sticking point because of (intrusive) anti-cheat.

The big elephant in the room is that most computers don’t ship with Linux pre installed, and convincing the layman to **** with the OS of their machine is nigh impossible.

and none of this touches on the gatekeeping in the Linux community. Where there’s an assumption of high levels of technical knowledge. It’s almost as bad as the gamer kiddies.

 

[Thysanoptera]

Fair point, but there’s no indication of the situation changing so I’d say it’s far from “best”.

The Nintendo Switch exists too.

And I could have 20 Nintendo Switches for the low price of my single maxed out MBP 14, lol. I have no delusions the situation will change, it's just this is such a great piece of hardware and it is a shame it will not reach wider audience.