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Stuey3D

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Jul 8, 2014
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
As much as I hate to admit this, there is one area the OLED iPhones are better than the LCD ones and that is bright daylight readability.

My iPhone X was great in the bright daylight the XR and 11 whilst rated for the same brightness as the X and are pretty decent in the daylight were not as good as the OLED iPhones and now the 12 Pro Max has confirmed that for me.

On my XR and 11 I had to have light mode during the day and dark mode during the night so that the screen was readable in all lighting conditions, on my 12 Pro Max I just keep it on dark mode at all times and it looks great even as I type this now in the bright morning sunshine. I suspect this has to do with the superior contrast that OLED provides over the raw brightness as the LCD’s by comparison look a bit washed out in the bright sunshine.

As someone who works outdoors in all weathers this is better for me.
 

MICHAELSD

macrumors 603
Jul 13, 2008
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Oh the wife should be receiving her purple iPhone 12 today so once that is all setup I’ll try and get some slow mo videos of its screen to compare against the 12 Pro Max.
I’d be extremely curious to see this. I still think claims of hardware/software adjustment are unfounded, but we can know for sure since it will have the latest manufacturing changes.
 

Stuey3D

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Jul 8, 2014
832
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
The wife’s iPhone 12 at maximum brightness, it seems to flicker more at max brightness compared to my Pro Max which makes me wonder if the screens were all originally created to the same specs and the ones that didn’t quite make the cut for the Pro models are then used in the dimmer rated standard models and it’s just ran with a software dimmer on.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
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Jul 8, 2014
832
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Wife’s 12 at maximum brightness with 100% white point reduction which is what I run my 12 Pro Max at in dim environments. The flicker is significantly worse than my Pro Max with the same settings, however the screen is dimmer to look at so I think a less white point reduction would probably get it similar to my Max.
 
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MICHAELSD

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The wife’s iPhone 12 at maximum brightness, it seems to flicker more at max brightness compared to my Pro Max which makes me wonder if the screens were all originally created to the same specs and the ones that didn’t quite make the cut for the Pro models are then used in the dimmer rated standard models and it’s just ran with a software dimmer on.
View attachment 1767626
That’s what I’ve heard: iPhone 12 uses the same panels as iPhone 12 Pro, with the brightness limited by software. Although Pro models only reach max brightness in direct sunlight or with a flashlight shone on the ambient light sensor.

That being said iPhone 12 does seem to flicker more than iPhone 12 Pro at all brightness levels.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
That’s what I’ve heard: iPhone 12 uses the same panels as iPhone 12 Pro, with the brightness limited by software. Although Pro models only reach max brightness in direct sunlight or with a flashlight shone on the ambient light sensor.

That being said iPhone 12 does seem to flicker more than iPhone 12 Pro at all brightness levels.
Side by side my Max is significantly brighter than my wife’s 12 standard.
 

bluecoast

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Nov 7, 2017
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Thanks for your post OP. And it looks like I’ll be staying with my XR for a little longer.

(Sure, upgrading to the 11 is possible but it’s a pretty negligible upgrade).

Hope is on the way with the micro LED used in the 12.9” IPP

I’d imagine though that we’re looking at 2022 for a phone to use this tech, at the earliest.

(2021 looks as if they’ll use the new low power OLED w/ high refresh rates on the Pro models)
 

asus389

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Sep 11, 2019
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I really wonder if why the max brightness doesn't improve things on the 11 Pro and 12/12 Pro is that despite setting the slider to 100%, the phones don't ever actually get to max brightness unless you are watching a HDR movie. I don't think the same was true with the original iPhone X. Do you guys still get headaches in HDR mode?
 

Stuey3D

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Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Could be, I’ve also heard that with manual brightness it doesn’t get to full brightness as well. A few posts on here say to activate auto brightness when outside so the screen gets brighter, although my 12 Pro Max is plenty bright enough on manual brightness so I’m not sure how true that is.
I really wonder if why the max brightness doesn't improve things on the 11 Pro and 12/12 Pro is that despite setting the slider to 100%, the phones don't ever actually get to max brightness unless you are watching a HDR movie. I don't think the same was true with the original iPhone X. Do you guys still get headaches in HDR mode?
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
For those with an XR/11 who are on the fence about trying the 6.1” iPhone 12 there is an odd quirk of the 12 and a very weird design choice by Apple to be honest, this may make or break it for some.

On the older XR/11 these were treated as PLUS phones and as such apps could rotate to landscape mode, the 12 by comparison is treated as the regular model and landscape mode is now gone.

I noticed this on the settings app and Twitter app so it’s not just first party apps that are effected.

I find this a very odd choice as compared to the XR/11 you have a higher resolution on the same sized screen so there is no technical reason that they’ve taken this feature out.

So if landscape apps are important to you then stick with the older models.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
**Update** So I’ve had my 12 Pro Max nearly a full calendar month now and here are my thoughts and experiences with it.

With the settings I am using 100% brightness at all times with Auto Brightness disabled and the accessibility shortcut set to 100% white point reduction for when I am in a dim environment, my eye strain has been greatly reduced.

Most days I notice nothing more than a slight itchy stingy eye if I’ve been using it for a significant amount of time and I’m talking hours of screen on time here, which has been manageable not perfect but not complete torture like before.

However occasionally for no apparent reason as I’m only doing light safari browsing the phone warms up which I believe is a known problem with the 12 series as there are lots of threads on this, however when this warming occurs it causes the screen to dim itself to protect the phone and when it has done that if I continue to use the phone that dimming will cause worse eye strain. This eye strain though isn’t as bad as I have had in the past and a dose of paracetamol or ibuprofen is enough to shift it. I need to be better at putting the phone down whilst it’s warm to allow it to return to full brightness, hopefully this overheating issue is something Apple can fix.

With regards to the screen in general use PWM aside it is a nice screen, and the extra brightness makes bright daytime usage so much easier and as someone who works outdoors this is a big upgrade for me. 100% white point reduction does reduce the brightness enough to make dark room usage doable but not totally comfortable as for me personally it’s still a little too bright, but for a quick scroll of Twitter before bed it’s perfectly fine. That being said 100% white point reduction does cause other issues as it completely crushes the dark colours, if you see the attached screenshot that black and dark grey patterned background just appears black with white point reduction on, which is obviously to be expected as you are messing with the colours. It does however make pages which have dark grey as their dark mode appear black which probably saves the battery as the pixels aren’t being lit, this forum is a good example.

As a phone screen aside it is a significant upgrade from my 11. The 2 reasons I upgraded were battery life and cellular performance and I must say this phone crushes the 11 in both regards.

Battery life my 11 would be at 20% by the end of a working day and in single digits just before bed, my 12 Pro Max I’ve not managed to drop below 30% and that’s with 5G set to Auto although this is pre iOS 14.5 recalibration on the 11 so the 11’s battery may get better.

Cellular performance on this phone is a night and day improvement over my 11, the 11 and any Intel modem iPhone I’ve owned X/XR/11 has performed terribly on my network of choice o2 the main issue being driving about and then stopping to use your phone it would indicate 4G(LTE) service but be either very slow or completely frozen until you toggle airplane mode and then service is restored and works in a lot of cases pretty fast. I do not have this issue with the 12 and nor does my wife who upgraded from an XR which had the same issue although she doesn’t use data as much as I do so she didn’t notice it as much.
Data speeds are significantly improved on 3G/4G and now 5G.
Calls on the 12 seem clearer too, even when connected to car Bluetooth devices.

Would I recommend an upgrade over an XR/11 well that depends:

If like me you were having cellular/battery issues then yes it’s a worthy upgrade and will change your experience of an iPhone.

If your cellular performance is good on your network of choice for instance the XR/11 work well on the EE network in the UK then I wouldn’t bother, in general use there is no noticeable performance upgrade from the earlier phones but I don’t really game or video edit so your mileage may vary. The camera is an upgrade but the 11 had a very good camera anyway so it’s probably not worth it for that either. If your battery health has dropped and your phone is in good condition then save the cash and get a battery replacement instead.
 

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jimmy_uk

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Oct 19, 2015
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Thanks for the follow up.

Too many compromises/work arounds to make a £1000+ purchase worth it if it can't be used as intended. But if it works for you.
 
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Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
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Jul 8, 2014
832
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Thanks for the follow up.

Too many compromises/work arounds to make a £1000+ purchase worth it if it can't be used as intended. But if it works for you.
Yeah I agree, however for me the cellular performance was the big seller for me due to the issues I had on my 11 and this phone is significantly better. It’s actually very reliable by comparison so for me personally that was a worthwhile reason to upgrade as I spend most of my time outdoors with work.

If the 11 had a Qualcomm modem then that phone would be perfect, the Intel modem really is it’s Achilles heel unfortunately. Hopefully the rumours of a SE+ come to fruition in 2023 as expected because hopefully that will mean an iPhone 11 with a Qualcomm modem and maybe even 5G.
 
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MICHAELSD

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I can sympathize since if any of the compromises/workarounds worked for me I’d probably have kept mine. I guess some PWM-sensitive people are just more lucky than others. (I said probably because it’s inconvenient at best keeping the brightness at 100% all the time.)

I am starting to get a little bit of envy seeing people with bigger and better phones than my iPhone SE, but it’s not really a big deal. I already know I didn’t absolutely love iPhone 11 and any of the iPhone 12 models would just cause me daily headaches.
 
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Stuey3D

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Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
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All those workarounds and compromises might be acceptable for a $250 junker phone, but a +$1K "Pro" iPhone? Totally unacceptable in my book. You deserve better
Unfortunately LCD is considered inferior nowadays (shamefully), micro LED is years out, and Mini LED backlighting is too thick for a phone, so we are kinda stuck with OLED.

If the 12 Pro Max had a higher frequency PWM OLED or LCD it would be perfect for me, hell if the 11 had this Qualcomm modem it would also be perfect for me.
 

bluecoast

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2017
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**Update** So I’ve had my 12 Pro Max nearly a full calendar month now and here are my thoughts and experiences with it.

With the settings I am using 100% brightness at all times with Auto Brightness disabled and the accessibility shortcut set to 100% white point reduction for when I am in a dim environment, my eye strain has been greatly reduced.

Most days I notice nothing more than a slight itchy stingy eye if I’ve been using it for a significant amount of time and I’m talking hours of screen on time here, which has been manageable not perfect but not complete torture like before.

However occasionally for no apparent reason as I’m only doing light safari browsing the phone warms up which I believe is a known problem with the 12 series as there are lots of threads on this, however when this warming occurs it causes the screen to dim itself to protect the phone and when it has done that if I continue to use the phone that dimming will cause worse eye strain. This eye strain though isn’t as bad as I have had in the past and a dose of paracetamol or ibuprofen is enough to shift it. I need to be better at putting the phone down whilst it’s warm to allow it to return to full brightness, hopefully this overheating issue is something Apple can fix.

With regards to the screen in general use PWM aside it is a nice screen, and the extra brightness makes bright daytime usage so much easier and as someone who works outdoors this is a big upgrade for me. 100% white point reduction does reduce the brightness enough to make dark room usage doable but not totally comfortable as for me personally it’s still a little too bright, but for a quick scroll of Twitter before bed it’s perfectly fine. That being said 100% white point reduction does cause other issues as it completely crushes the dark colours, if you see the attached screenshot that black and dark grey patterned background just appears black with white point reduction on, which is obviously to be expected as you are messing with the colours. It does however make pages which have dark grey as their dark mode appear black which probably saves the battery as the pixels aren’t being lit, this forum is a good example.

As a phone screen aside it is a significant upgrade from my 11. The 2 reasons I upgraded were battery life and cellular performance and I must say this phone crushes the 11 in both regards.

Battery life my 11 would be at 20% by the end of a working day and in single digits just before bed, my 12 Pro Max I’ve not managed to drop below 30% and that’s with 5G set to Auto although this is pre iOS 14.5 recalibration on the 11 so the 11’s battery may get better.

Cellular performance on this phone is a night and day improvement over my 11, the 11 and any Intel modem iPhone I’ve owned X/XR/11 has performed terribly on my network of choice o2 the main issue being driving about and then stopping to use your phone it would indicate 4G(LTE) service but be either very slow or completely frozen until you toggle airplane mode and then service is restored and works in a lot of cases pretty fast. I do not have this issue with the 12 and nor does my wife who upgraded from an XR which had the same issue although she doesn’t use data as much as I do so she didn’t notice it as much.
Data speeds are significantly improved on 3G/4G and now 5G.
Calls on the 12 seem clearer too, even when connected to car Bluetooth devices.

Would I recommend an upgrade over an XR/11 well that depends:

If like me you were having cellular/battery issues then yes it’s a worthy upgrade and will change your experience of an iPhone.

If your cellular performance is good on your network of choice for instance the XR/11 work well on the EE network in the UK then I wouldn’t bother, in general use there is no noticeable performance upgrade from the earlier phones but I don’t really game or video edit so your mileage may vary. The camera is an upgrade but the 11 had a very good camera anyway so it’s probably not worth it for that either. If your battery health has dropped and your phone is in good condition then save the cash and get a battery replacement instead.
Thanks for the follow up. That’s a lot of compromises to get a usable new iPhone - I’ll definitely be waiting for mini led.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
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Thanks for the follow up. That’s a lot of compromises to get a usable new iPhone - I’ll definitely be waiting for mini led.
That’s the problem you may be waiting a very long time, mini LED which is what’s in the new iPad is too big to put in a phone and as they have OLED I doubt they would make the effort to either as it doesn’t offer any real advantage and costs more.

Micro LED is the next big display tech but from what I’ve been reading that’s years out as they are struggling to put it in TV’s right now.

LTPO OLED which is the same as the new always on Apple Watch may help but from what I’ve been reading PWM is still an issue on Samsung phones which have these types of screens too.

Other than a potential future SE+ it’s either PWM OLED or some bottom of the barrel android device that may still use LCD and even they are moving to OLED nowadays. It’s likely to remain that way until the next big display tech finally makes it to mass production shamefully.
 
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bluecoast

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That’s the problem you may be waiting a very long time, mini LED which is what’s in the new iPad is too big to put in a phone and as they have OLED I doubt they would make the effort to either as it doesn’t offer any real advantage and costs more.

Micro LED is the next big display tech but from what I’ve been reading that’s years out as they are struggling to put it in TV’s right now.

LTPO OLED which is the same as the new always on Apple Watch may help but from what I’ve been reading PWM is still an issue on Samsung phones which have these types of screens too.

Other than a potential future SE+ it’s either PWM OLED or some bottom of the barrel android device that may still use LCD and even they are moving to OLED nowadays. It’s likely to remain that way until the next big display tech finally makes it to mass production shamefully.
Thanks for that! Well… Here’s hoping they use the 11/XR’s body in 2023 to produce a new iPhone SE - and I’ll just wait patiently for miniLED to rock up!
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
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Jul 8, 2014
832
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Thanks for that! Well… Here’s hoping they use the 11/XR’s body in 2023 to produce a new iPhone SE - and I’ll just wait patiently for miniLED to rock up!
An iPhone 11 with this Qualcomm modem even with its A13 would be a fantastic phone and would really cannibalise sales of the more expensive models. That’s why I believe it will be at least 2023 before we see an SE+ with 5G as that phone would be too good for the money, and the new models would have to have some radical improvements to justify their costs over it.

A 5G iPhone 11 at around £500 would kill sales of the 12 series and even the 13 series if the rumours are to be believed as that doesn’t seem like a big upgrade over the 12 series to be honest.

Currently the jump between A13 - A14 is not that big and the A13 even outperforms this years Android flagships in some aspects, the cameras on the 11 are comparable to the 12 with the only omission being no night mode on front or ultra wide camera’s which is not a massive deal for most people. The screen on paper is weaker but for a big chunk of money less and for those of us with PWM sensitivity it’s still an amazing screen. The Intel modem is the part that lets the 11 down, with this 5G Qualcomm modem even if they only limited it to the 2 antennas for 2x2 that the 11 has would still be a significant upgrade and would make that phone too good to justify the upsell to the premium line.

I think the SE will be left as is until 2023 and then we will get the iPhone 11 bodied version of it with 2022 hardware.
 
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MICHAELSD

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Jul 13, 2008
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I’m getting a little bit of buyer’s remorse with iPhone SE and getting the itch to try another iPhone 12 model. I already know iPhone 12 Pro Max unfortunately didn’t work for me.

Part of me wants to try iPhone 12 since I find the aluminum design oddly charming, but the 128GB model ends up being only $120 less than the Pro. I suppose of the four models iPhone 12 Pro is the best for PWM-sensitive users. Optimistically if it worked out I’m fairly confident Apple would make an exception to return iPhone SE. Then again maybe I should just try to control myself and wait until iPhone 13...

Side note: it’s incredible how many PWM threads there are, and yet still no real solution. I had a choice of multiple threads to post this in.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
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Jul 8, 2014
832
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
I’m getting a little bit of buyer’s remorse with iPhone SE and getting the itch to try another iPhone 12 model. I already know iPhone 12 Pro Max unfortunately didn’t work for me.

Part of me wants to try iPhone 12 since I find the aluminum design oddly charming, but the 128GB model ends up being only $120 less than the Pro. I suppose of the four models iPhone 12 Pro is the best for PWM-sensitive users. Optimistically if it worked out I’m fairly confident Apple would make an exception to return iPhone SE. Then again maybe I should just try to control myself and wait until iPhone 13...

Side note: it’s incredible how many PWM threads there are, and yet still no real solution. I had a choice of multiple threads to post this in.
If PWM affects you worse than me then avoid all OLED iPhones as I am on the edge of it being unusable luckily my accommodations seem to be doing the trick but the minute the screen dims by itself such as during overheating which it was doing on 14.5.1 then it causes problems.

Hopefully Apple are aware of this issue and the rumoured LTPO high refresh screens of the iPhone 13 will either eliminate PWM or raise the frequency of it enough to not be an issue, but I do believe that is wishful thinking as Apple source their OLEDs from Samsung and their S21 ultra has even worse PWM than the iPhone dipping down to 120Hz at minimum brightness.
 
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MICHAELSD

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Jul 13, 2008
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If PWM affects you worse than me then avoid all OLED iPhones as I am on the edge of it being unusable luckily my accommodations seem to be doing the trick but the minute the screen dims by itself such as during overheating which it was doing on 14.5.1 then it causes problems.

Hopefully Apple are aware of this issue and the rumoured LTPO high refresh screens of the iPhone 13 will either eliminate PWM or raise the frequency of it enough to not be an issue, but I do believe that is wishful thinking as Apple source their OLEDs from Samsung and their S21 ultra has even worse PWM than the iPhone dipping down to 120Hz at minimum brightness.
Unfortunately you’re probably right. Even keeping the brightness at 100% on iPhone 12 Pro Max didn’t prevent migraines for me. It is interesting to see that they’re potentially making changes to PWM/screen brightness functionality via software updates.

There is a distinct possibility that LTPO displays with a 120Hz refresh rate will either increase the PWM rate to 480Hz+ or that the amplitude will become flatter as it did on Apple Watch. In either scenario I would give iPhone 13 a shot.
 
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