Angry Protests Break Out at Key iPhone Factory in China [Updated]

[I7guy]

It’s in post 291- why lie

If by lie you mean to dispute your version of the truth?

iPhone is also being moved- guess where 15 will come from? This is first time Apple will attempt to simultaneously ramp in 2 countries. (I know for fact and also reported by Kuo Ming chi)

Is iPhone 100% moved? Will iphone be 100% moved on 2023? 2024? 2025?

Who is going around in circle?

Answer the question
1. Why does apple still use 16 year old student in Zhengzhou under internship as of November 2022?

Apple doesn’t do anything. Foxconn does it. Are you telling me 16 years old can’t have a job?

2. Who ultimately pays the bill?

Foxconn.

3. Whom does factory ultimately manufacture product for?

Foxconn is a contract manufacturer for Samsung and apple and maybe others.

India is already making iPhones. Thailand I believe could be next site.

Perfect. That’s the way it should be.

Stop drinking coolaid.

Get your facts straight.

 

[Krispykrme]

If by lie you mean to dispute your version of the truth?

Is iPhone 100% moved? Will iphone be 100% moved on 2023? 2024? 2025?

Apple doesn’t do anything. Foxconn does it. Are you telling me 16 years old can’t have a job?

Foxconn.

Foxconn is a contract manufacturer for Samsung and apple and maybe others.


Perfect. That’s the way it should be.

Get your facts straight.

Dispute? More like lies

1. I said very clearly Apple will never move 100% out of China. But move out of China is already happening it happened. Who said 100% out of China- you did.

Because of Chinese government- Apple can’t move 100% out because it will draw retribution. Hence China demand will remain on China.

My original comment stands- China demand will remain in China. You have no citation. Admit that

2. 16 year old can have a job. But shouldn’t be forced as only way to graduate from school. Read the damn article.

How does work 11 hours per shift is healthy to 16 year old?

Again why twist things?

3. Foxconn does assembly for others- why you don’t hear protest for those location as much or as severe.

4. Foxconn isn’t only one has labor issues- wistron, Luxshare….. all have similar issues. The only common factor- Apple. The sites with protests are Apple sites.

Think about it.

Citation- show me your proof rather than talking out of your rear.

 

[Schismz]

The problem is that none of you guys have direct knowledge even with actual news reports and cited violation.

Apple can and have influence on who they work with. The problem is that they simply put profit first.

Yeah, and, so? That's the purpose of any given for profit C Corp, to increase shareholder value. You have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. They don't claim to be a public benefit or nonprofit corp.

What is it that you want them to do?

ESG is just a narrative, nobody actually cares. Jamie Dimon is the CEO and Chairman of Chase/JP Morgan ... and, if you looked up the term "successful white collar criminal" there should be a pic of Jamie there with a big smile on his face -- but he had one of those, let's just tell the truth moments last month and stated the obvious: "investors don't give a **** about ESG" google, brave search, whatever, if interested.

The awful working conditions in China and Apple being highlighted occurs roughly every year or two, and then nothing ever really changes or happens. Apple makes a nice target because they're the largest co on Earth and do a lot of virtue signaling.

Unsure what anybody expects or wants. If anyone believes there is a single human being -- or PubCo -- on Wall St. who cares about anything except making money ... I would posit you're delusional.

 

[Krispykrme]

Yeah, and, so? That's the purpose of any given for profit C Corp, to increase shareholder value. You have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. They don't claim to be a public benefit or nonprofit corp.

What is it that you want them to do?

ESG is just a narrative, nobody actually cares. Jamie Dimon is the CEO and Chairman of Chase/JP Morgan ... and, if you looked up the term "successful white collar criminal" there should be a pic of Jamie there with a big smile on his face -- but he had one of those, let's just tell the truth moments last month and stated the obvious: "investors don't give a **** about ESG" google, brave search, whatever, if interested.

The awful working conditions in China and Apple being highlighted occurs roughly every year or two, and then nothing ever really changes or happens. Apple makes a nice target because they're the largest co on Earth and do a lot of virtue signaling.

Unsure what anybody expects or wants. If anyone believes there is a single human being -- or PubCo -- on Wall St. who cares about anything except making money ... I would posit you're delusional.

That I totally agree with.

Heck the more apple sells it improves my bottom line too.

Point is I don’t drink the virtue signaling coolaid like i7guys and other poster here does.

That was main point.

Delusional is buying into all of these virtue signaling BS and preaching it like gospel.

Go back and read more.

 

[I7guy]

Dispute? More like lies

1. I said very clearly Apple will never move 100% out of China. But move out of China is already happening it happened. Who said 100% out of China- you did.

Because of Chinese government- Apple can’t move 100% out because it will draw retribution. Hence China demand will remain on China.

My original comment stands- China demand will remain in China. You have no citation. Admit that

2. 16 year old can have a job. But shouldn’t be forced as only way to graduate from school. Read the damn article.

How does work 11 hours per shift is healthy to 16 year old?

Again why twist things?

3. Foxconn does assembly for others- why you don’t hear protest for those location as much or as severe.

4. Foxconn isn’t only one has labor issues- wistron, Luxshare….. all have similar issues. The only common factor- Apple. The sites with protests are Apple sites.

Think about it.

Citation- show me your proof rather than talking out of your rear.

There's a difference between Apple moving manufacturing out of China and Apple reapportioning their manufacturing capacity. Move implies 100% leaving China, which Apple is not doing.

As far as your one anecdotal example of a 16 year old working for Foxconn for 11 hours. That is on Foxconn if they are breaking the code of ethics, it has nothing to do with Apple. Apple does not own or run the manufacturing facility.

As far as other items, it's clear apple is foxconns biggest customer. It's also clear every other supplier has to agree to apples code of ethics. If they are breaking those code of ethics it's on the manufacturer. Stop blaming Apple for everything they have little control over.

 

[Krispykrme]

There's a difference between Apple moving manufacturing out of China and Apple reapportioning their manufacturing capacity. Move implies 100% leaving China, which Apple is not doing.

As far as your one anecdotal example of a 16 year old working for Foxconn for 11 hours. That is on Foxconn if they are breaking the code of ethics, it has nothing to do with Apple. Apple does not own or run the manufacturing facility.

As far as other items, it's clear apple is foxconns biggest customer. It's also clear every other supplier has to agree to apples code of ethics. If they are breaking those code of ethics it's on the manufacturer. Stop blaming Apple for everything they have little control over.

1. Wow- you are twisting things again. Amazing- show proof apple hasn’t moved

2. Actually it isn’t breaking the law- Apple does allow that. But we are talking about ethics right?

3. Amazing you continue with BS. All I said was other Apple CM also have labor issues. It’s not only isolated to Foxconn or China.

Common factor is Apple. Ain’t no way around it.

 

[I7guy]

1. Wow- you are twisting things again. Amazing- show proof apple hasn’t moved

2. Actually it isn’t breaking the law- Apple does allow that. But we are talking about ethics right?

3. Amazing you continue with BS. All I said was other Apple CM also have labor issues. It’s not only isolated to Foxconn or China.

Common factor is Apple. Ain’t no way around it.

Nobody said Apple wasn't reapportioning it's manufacturing capacity. As far as a young worker, maybe Foxconn has no ethics, but they are still held to the code of ethics that (hopefully) they agreed to.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Do more research.

1. Apple factory riots, protests, child labor violation, and death. Aren’t just isolated to Foxconn or to china

2. You will never hear anything about oppo, Huawei... Because those of Chinese government backed companies

3. Apple being the biggest brand name and highest margin does get scrutinized a lot more.

Well the CCCP wouldn't let Apple faulter as they employee so many of their citizens and right now their economy isn't in its best light. Cutting off an arm to save a foot doesn't make much sense. Moreover these news being 'let out' of China isn't helping them at all hence now this weeks clamp down by authorities of these riots/protests.

Now if it's an ethnic separation - then yes indeed it would make sense to do this to Apple.

Yet on point # 2 & 3 I agree.

 

[SnappleRumors]

As far as your one anecdotal example of a 16 year old working for Foxconn for 11 hours. That is on Foxconn if they are breaking the code of ethics, it has nothing to do with Apple. Apple does not own or run the manufacturing facility.

Apple is in China because Cook chose them. Don’t kid yourself, the reason Cook choose China is largely because of that anecdotal example. But cheap labor is only a small part of the equation.

Chinese factories were willing to overhaul their plants overnight and built dormitories housing 8k employees next door all to accommodate Apple. When Apple needed new screens China roused the employees and within 30 minutes were working 12 hours shifts and within 80 hours were producing thousands of iPhones a day. Cook and Apple didn’t care about anything but China’s speed and flexibility.

Cook chose China because the government subsidized the local industrial areas to build other factories all within a stones throw of each other just get Apple’s business. That’s the supply chain. As a matter of fact one Apple executive said something to the effect that Apple has no duty to solve America’s problem they only have a duty to produce the best mobile phone on the market.

Apple isn’t the devil or a saint but Cook (and Jobs) knew exactly what they were doing. It was all business.

 

[I7guy]

Apple is in China because Cook chose them. Don’t kid yourself, the reason Cook choose China is largely because of that anecdotal example. But cheap labor is only a small part of the equation.

Chinese factories were willing to overhaul their plants overnight and built dormitories housing 8k employees next door all to accommodate Apple. When Apple needed new screens China roused the employees and within 30 minutes were working 12 hours shifts and within 80 hours were producing thousands of iPhones a day. Cook and Apple didn’t care about anything but China’s speed and flexibility.

Cook chose China because the government subsidized the local industrial areas to build other factories all within a stones throw of each other just get Apple’s business. That’s the supply chain. As a matter of fact one Apple executive said something to the effect that Apple has no duty to solve America’s problem they only have a duty to produce the best mobile phone on the market.

Apple isn’t the devil or a saint but Cook (and Jobs) knew exactly what they were doing. It was all business.

There is no debate apple is in China because Steve jobs chose them. Abundant labor and cost effective manufacturing were a draw. The ability to ramp up manufacturing quickly was also a draw.

Apple is in China for the same reason many many other companies are. Business decisions that have paid off handsomely over the years.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I completely agree.
But since we cannot seem to convince Apple's detractors that this has nothing to do with Apple (some people are indeed bent on blaming Apple for everything no matter what), I thought I'd at least address the "virtue signalling" accusation.

I'm not so certain this doesn't have anything to do with Apple.

1. Cook is the CEO and former COO that implemented Apple's great success with supply chain least cost and highest availability metrics for close to 2 decades.

2. Apple' has had a few concerns, reported on earnings calls, regarding supply chain bottlenecks or concerns that could affect product numbers/shipments/revenues. This isn't just coming to light since the pandemic started in early 2020 btw, and not just iPhones.

Apple had fair warning for the need to diversify production facility locations.

Also issues currently in the news has been publicly shown before, minus pandemic/lockdowns, in terms of suicides, poor living/working conditions, minors working illegally at Foxconn (due to falsified records). seems that only the latter Apple has been able to resolve.

So:

Apple could randomly or periodically send executives or those in charge with working with vendors/partners of manufacturing and assembly over, not on set timed schedule, or have expats working there for long stints of say 4-6mths to oversee agreements being implemented and maintained.

Apple could've long ago convinced partners build manufacturing out of 1 country. Sure some incentives were not there in the past but these are behomoths in respective industries I'm sure it could've been done before.

Lastly,

Find it odd how threats of 'secrets' to be released, issues at Foxconn production with terrible conditions for staff related to Apple, and Apple being sued for not really protecting users data on iPhone's ... and then Apple releases a 1st time every rapid response update for iOS 16.xx beta? Hmm pretty interesting timing.


I don't like seeing Apple in such a terrible light yet I cannot help but think Apple had opportunity to void this.

 

[Krispykrme]

There is no debate apple is in China because Steve jobs chose them. Abundant labor and cost effective manufacturing were a draw. The ability to ramp up manufacturing quickly was also a draw.

Apple is in China for the same reason many many other companies are. Business decisions that have paid off handsomely over the years.

How many times do I have to tell you stop the BS?

Cook chose China- operations was sole responsibility of Cook. Jobs simply didn't care.

Jobs never visit China because he didn't care about how operation was being run. All he does on operation side is to send Tim to Tim's mess.

 

[Krispykrme]

I'm not so certain this doesn't have anything to do with Apple.

1. Cook is the CEO and former COO that implemented Apple's great success with supply chain least cost and highest availability metrics for close to 2 decades.

2. Apple' has had a few concerns, reported on earnings calls, regarding supply chain bottlenecks or concerns that could affect product numbers/shipments/revenues. This isn't just coming to light since the pandemic started in early 2020 btw, and not just iPhones.

Apple had fair warning for the need to diversify production facility locations.

Also issues currently in the news has been publicly shown before, minus pandemic/lockdowns, in terms of suicides, poor living/working conditions, minors working illegally at Foxconn (due to falsified records). seems that only the latter Apple has been able to resolve.

So:

Apple could randomly or periodically send executives or those in charge with working with vendors/partners of manufacturing and assembly over, not on set timed schedule, or have expats working there for long stints of say 4-6mths to oversee agreements being implemented and maintained.

Apple could've long ago convinced partners build manufacturing out of 1 country. Sure some incentives were not there in the past but these are behomoths in respective industries I'm sure it could've been done before.

Lastly,

Find it odd how threats of 'secrets' to be released, issues at Foxconn production with terrible conditions for staff related to Apple, and Apple being sued for not really protecting users data on iPhone's ... and then Apple releases a 1st time every rapid response update for iOS 16.xx beta? Hmm pretty interesting timing.


I don't like seeing Apple in such a terrible light yet I cannot help but think Apple had opportunity to void this.

Apple does have expat and teams that suppose to perform audit on supplier ethics.

But in reality no one really cared to follow through and plus law in China/India is not really labor friendly. As long as it met the local laws- apple usually wouldn't care unless it blows up in public.

 

[Vlad Soare]

The truth is ugly and politically incorrect, which is why nobody has the guts to tell it.
The truth is, the overwhelming majority of customers don't care two hoots about workers' life in undeveloped countries. You could tell them their iPhone was made by a poor disabled kid who's been working fourteen hours a day for a bowl of soup, and they'd still buy it as long as this didn't happen in their back yard. You know it, I know it, Apple knows it. Everybody knows it. Even those who act enraged on the internet will rush, when nobody's looking, to buy the next iPhone or Mac as soon as it is launched. Why? Because it's going to be an exquisite device, and at the end of the day that's all that matters to most of the final customers; everything else is just claptrap.
Apple, or any company for that matter, doesn't need to do anything more than just obey the law. As long as they don't do anything actually illegal, they're clear.

 

[I7guy]

How many times do I have to tell you stop the BS?

The last I look “krispykrme” does not own either the internet or macrumors. Therefore I don’t have to listen to you.

Cook chose China- operations was sole responsibility of Cook. Jobs simply didn't care.

Jobs never visit China because he didn't care about how operation was being run. All he does on operation side is to send Tim to Tim's mess.

I’m not clear on whether or not you understand the CEO is responsible for EVERYTHING in the company. Given that Jobs chose China. Can’t spin it any other way.

 

[Realityck]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/02/economy/china-zero-covid-sustainability-debt-woes-intl-hnk/index.html

The zero-Covid policy kept China out of recession in 2020. But nearly three years on, the bills are mounting, placing an extraordinary financial strain on municipal authorities across the world’s most populous nation.

If lockdowns and mass testing persist, “the financial stability risks will increase,” George Magnus, an associate at the China Centre at Oxford University, told CNN Business.

“Local governments are under huge pressure from the cost of maintaining zero-Covid, and we can already see this in the debt sustainability of several entities and [in] instances where public services are being scaled back, local assets or services sold and so on.”

Local governments, whose revenues rely heavily on land sales, are more vulnerable than the central government. They spent 11.8 trillion yuan ($1.65 trillion) more than they raised in revenue between January and October, borrowing heavily to do so, according to data from China’s Ministry of Finance.
========
Given the lost of manufacturing revenue was already high, now the cities involved are running out of money to continue the current policies.

 

[Branaghan]

 

[I7guy]

Without even clicking on the video I can guarantee it’s clickbate.

 

[JapanApple]

oh, goodie YouTube videos........ but really it's sad for the people

 

[SnappleRumors]

Apparently Covid-19 is dropping in China. Coincidence?

 

[NightOne]

Enough is enough. Apple needs to put their money where their mouth is and perform like they care about human rights and privacy, not just in some cute little ad or one liner.

The word you are looking for is HYPOCRISY

 

[NightOne]

It’s not apples factory. It’s Foxconn’s. Apple has a manufacturing contract with Foxconn. And Foxconn according to contract has a responsibility to live up to their supplier responsibly agreement.

"Supplier responsibility contracts" are the biggest waste of paper on the planet. It is an "out" for the purchaser of labor resources to use when it gets exposed. Not worth the paper they are printed on and totally worthless.

All parties know what is going on from day 1. It doesn't matter if it is electronics, shoes, or clothing.

 

[Vlad Soare]

All parties know what is going on from day 1.

Indeed. So do all of us. So whining about it on the internet while privately using the very devices made in that factory is pure hypocrisy. The truth is, we don't care. We (well, some of us) just want others to think we do.

 

[NightOne]

Bottom line is the U.S. should not be manufacturing in communist China. It literally is the stupidest thing this country has ever done and if we don't crank in a correction it may be the downfall of this country as we know it.

Moving U.S. manufacturing overseas for cheap labor is a long standing problem but the likes of Clinton and George W. Bush (followed by other Presidents) drove it to the point where we are dependent on China for WAY too much. Those administrations literally helped the companies move manufacturing to China.

U.S. consumers being the total idiots they are NEVER punish these actions as long as they can get their cheap crap. Wal-Mart was a HUGE offender while running "American Made" ad campaigns while continuing to stock their shelves with more and more Chinese manufactured goods. Did that stop consumers from shopping at Wal-Mart? Nope. So Wal-Mart uses their horde of cash to wipe out small businesses all of the country and march us deeper into the territory of big box stores owning retailing.

And no matter how much I warned everyone I knew about Wal-Mart in the 90s the lemmings kept on shopping.

Now almost EVERYTHING is made in China. Go remove China manufactured goods from a U.S. store and see what is left in there. Nothing.

It is totally obvious what happens from here.

This is already happening:

Step 1: China manufacturers all our products
Step 2: China doesn't believe in intellectual property and steals all of our IP
Step 3: Chinese knock-off products start flooding the market (Hey Amazon)

This is coming:

Step 4: Chinese companies start their own companies and cut out the American middle man
Step 5: China brands take over the markets and push out American (and other brands)
Step 6: United States starts consuming Chinese brands and many American corporations collapse

This may be coming:

Step 7: Citizens suffer and start embracing Communism, Socialism, Antifa, Anarchy. Civil War breaks out. China picks a side and supplies it with arms and money
Step 8: That side wins and the former United States becomes a Chinese territory

China is NOT our friend !!!

 

[NightOne]

Indeed. So do all of us. So whining about it on the internet while privately using the very devices made in that factory is pure hypocrisy. The truth is, we don't care. We (well, some of us) just want others to think we do.

Exactly. We are hypocrites and we do not really care. Hedonism rules the day.