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Kar98

macrumors 65816
Feb 20, 2007
1,260
885
I'm not sure what you think this has anything all to do with religion. As if the US Civil War was the direct result of the spread of Christianity?

Your post implied the current mess is all the fault of the US. When in reality this mess started out a thousand years before there even was such an entity as the US. Roughly 750 years before that entire continent was even discovered by Europeans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests
 

superlawyer15

Suspended
Sep 15, 2014
258
443
It's an islamic problem ...anyone who claims otherwise is just burying their heads in the sand. Already in Germany refugees have begun hanging signs from overpasses that read "your children will worship allah or die" and others have staged protests demanding that octoberfest be canceled. These people aren't refugees they are opportunists and once they arrive they won't assimilate, but rather they will try to change their new "home" to mimic the sharia infested war zone they just fled from.

Shame on Apple for peddling this.
 

Sonmi451

Suspended
Aug 28, 2014
792
385
Tesla
It's an islamic problem ...anyone who claims otherwise is just burying their heads in the sand. Already in Germany refugees have begun hanging signs from overpasses that read "your children will worship allah or die" and others have staged protests demanding that octoberfest be canceled. These people aren't refugees they are opportunists and once they arrive they won't assimilate, but rather they will try to change their new "home" to mimic the sharia infested war zone they just fled from.

Shame on Apple for peddling this.

I've seen multiple posts calling these refugees opportunists. Can someone please direct me to an article where this false info is coming from? Also, can I have your information so I make sure you are never my lawyer. Thanks.
 

Jmausmuc

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2014
851
1,703
The counter arguments are:
1: Said military age men are in positions to either be recruited or executed if they do not join with the cause.
2: About par for the US, for what it's worth, and they come from countries that Arabic is the sole language. German as a language is also in decline despite global populations increasing. Over the past 15 years, census data collected from around the world has reflected that German speakers have decreased from ~91m to ~76m people, and that is compared to the high point of ~144m.
3: They are coming from areas immediately adjacent to those that are presently war torn. As such, they are *opportunistically* moving in the sense that there is a moving army that is advancing towards their location and they do not wish to fight.
4: They want to go to a company who is *WELCOMING* to them, and will be providing *ASSISTANCE* to them in this transition. Is that not better than going somewhere you're spit on, told you're worthless and left homeless?

I have to disagree.
Many of the immigrants come from countries that have been classified as safe and are not close to Syria like Albania and Bulgaria. Some of those people also aquire fake passports.

I also doubt that only 76 million people speak German as Germany. Switzerland and Austria have a combined population of over 110 million and German is a popular second or third language in the Netherlands, Belgium and to an extend even France.
I once heard that more than 5 million people speak fluent German in the us alone and even more have basic skills.

Anyways, I am glad you at least have some facts to back up your opinion unlike many other people.

In my oppinion Europe should definitely help the real refugees but their cannot sustain an immigration of more than 2 Millikan people a year.
 

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
...not muslims. Humans. This has nothing to do with religions. I hope you never have to flee and claim asylum.

Yeah it does, because there's going to be massive culture-clashing, conflict and tensions. After Sweden let in a whole bunch of Muslims and middle easterners into the country violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes have increased by a staggering 1,472%. It really does matter where immigrants/refugees comes from.
 

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
It's an islamic problem ...anyone who claims otherwise is just burying their heads in the sand. Already in Germany refugees have begun hanging signs from overpasses that read "your children will worship allah or die" and others have staged protests demanding that octoberfest be canceled. These people aren't refugees they are opportunists and once they arrive they won't assimilate, but rather they will try to change their new "home" to mimic the sharia infested war zone they just fled from.

Of course. Disturbed and traumatized people from a war-infested hellhole are largely not going to become calm & sane people when they get to Germany. The disfunction that screwed up their homeland will come with them. Now if immigration levels are low and happen slowly over a long period of time they can of course integrate and adopt western values over generations -- but when huge numbers come in they will just create their own sub-culture within the host country. More like oil and water than a "melting pot".
 

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
I've seen multiple posts calling these refugees opportunists. Can someone please direct me to an article where this false info is coming from? Also, can I have your information so I make sure you are never my lawyer. Thanks.

It's based on the footage where the refugees are refusing to be processed in Hungary and instead are demanding to go to Germany because the bennies are sweeter over there.
 

star-affinity

macrumors 68000
Nov 14, 2007
1,943
1,268
No, while I applaud those that donate to this fund, it won't solve the problem. And this is a problem that will only get worse.

Who's saying it will ”solve the problem”? It's about helping (some) individuals that are in dire need. So it solves or help the problem for some. And I don't see how that's a bad thing.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,607
11,419
After Sweden let in a whole bunch of Muslims and middle easterners into the country violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes have increased by a staggering 1,472%.

Yes, if by "after they let in a whole bunch of Muslims and middle easterners into the country", you mean "if you compare 1975 and 2015", and if 66 cases per 100,000 population (2012) are somehow "staggering" compared to the US's 54 per 100,000 population (2013).
 
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MacLC

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2013
414
272
I don't feel comfortable donating knowing that chunks of this money will go to ISIS fighters who are using this as an opportunity to place agents around the world. There's a reason why their fellow Islamic countries who are in the region aren't taking any refugees at all... And they all speak the same language and have the same culture.

Countries letting people in only after seeing others do so first is similar to how corporations are tripping over each other as Apple and Google are, to appear generous. Outside of Mayberry, there are several homeless people inside nearly every community across the western and eastern world and yet while people will rub themselves all over with butter for being so generous as to donate $100 to the Red Cross, how many of them will donate even 15 minutes to their local homeless shelter?
 
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RockSpider

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2014
903
396
I paid $700 for an iPad Mini yesterday, I feel like I've already donated $500, so no more from me.

Actually with all the billions pouring in why are they asking customers and employees to donate, why don't they just hand over a few billion, it would be just a rounding error to them.
 
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mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
Yes, if by "after they let in a whole bunch of Muslims and middle easterners into the country", you mean "if you compare 1975 and 2015", and if 66 cases per 100,000 population (2012) are somehow "staggering" compared to the US's 54 per 100,000 population (2013).

It's staggering compared to what the rape rate used to be in Sweden when they were a homogenous country, yes. And it's not the Swedes that are becoming more violent -- 85% of those sentenced for at least 2 years for rape were either foreign born or second generation immigrants. Do you not think that these immigrants in Sweden are a problem?
 

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superlawyer15

Suspended
Sep 15, 2014
258
443
It's staggering compared to what the rape rate used to be in Sweden when they were a homogenous country, yes. And it's not the Swedes that are becoming more violent -- 85% of those sentenced for at least 2 years for rape were either foreign born or second generation immigrants. Do you not think that these immigrants in Sweden are a problem?


Because certain schools of islam teach that its ok to rape non-muslim women (i.e. ISIS who published a book on the topic and even has an entire department dedicated to the selling of non-muslim sex slaves) ...or teach that women who don't wear the hijab are asking for it ...I'm obviously not saying all muslims subscribe to this particular ideology ...but its out there ..and its a contributing factor to the statistics you posted.

However, people are afraid to acknowledge it for fear of being labeled islamophobic (a weird term since a phobia is the irrational fear of something, and theres nothing irrational about fearing this) or fear of being judged a racist, even tho "islam" isn't a race and any member of any race could be muslim

...its as though our western PC society cloaked islam in this shield whereby the religion is immune from criticism.

Again, i'm not saying we should rush to judge all muslim people ...i have no doubt that a sizable number are extremely peaceful and otherwise indistinguishable from your non-muslim neighbor.

But the truth has to be told ...islam brings with it bad tenants ..and as Europe allows people to exploit the situation in Syria, they are inviting these bad tenants into their countries.
 

nt5672

macrumors 68040
Jun 30, 2007
3,412
7,268
Midwest USA
If you have anything negative to say about these refugees you are not a good person and I feel sorry for you.
Anyone that would judge a person based on one comment would appear to me to be pretty insecure in their thought processes. Freedom is about differences of opinion and the ability to express and discuss those differences. Through discussion we learn. Attacking someone for expressing an opinion while very gratifying, does not move us forward in thinking. Had you expressed something about the actual subject, it is entirely possible someone might have learned something.
 

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
Because certain schools of islam teach that its ok to rape non-muslim women ...or teach that women who don't wear the hijab are asking for it ...I'm obviously not saying all muslims subscribe to this particular ideology ...but its out there ..and its a contributing factor to the statistics you posted.

However, people are afraid to acknowledge it for fear of being labeled islamophobic (a weird term since a phobia is the irrational fear of something, and theres nothing irrational about fearing this) or fear of being judged a racist, even tho "islam" isn't a race and any member of any race could be muslim

...its as though our western PC society cloaked islam in this shield whereby the religion is immune from criticism.

Again, i'm not saying we should rush to judge all muslim people ...i have no doubt that a sizable number are extremely peaceful and otherwise indistinguishable from your non-muslim neighbor.

But the truth has to be told ...islam brings with it bad tenants ..and as Europe allows people to exploit the situation in Syria, they are inviting these bad tenants into their countries.

And why aren't feminists talking about this? They fabricate B.S statistics on rape for university campuses in the U.S, yet here there is an actual rape culture and no-one hears a word... But then again, I guess it doesn't really fit the narrative since the perpetrators aren't white.
 

superlawyer15

Suspended
Sep 15, 2014
258
443
And why aren't feminists talking about this? They fabricate B.S statistics on rape for university campuses in the U.S, yet here there is an actual rape culture and no-one hears a word... But then again, I guess it doesn't really fit the narrative since the perpetrators aren't white.

They don't say anything for the same reasons I mentioned above. Because islamic organizations such as CAIR have worked hard to create an environment where it's improper to criticize any part of the religion.

You have to look at this from their prospective to understand why for example, ISIS thinks it's ok to rape. The central figure of their religion, Mohammed, had a 6 year old wife. From ages 6 to 9 he would place his genitals between her thighs and rub her against it to achieve orgasm. Then at age 9, while she was still pre-pubescent, he had sex with her.

These aren't fringe allegations that are disputed. These are accepted facts that are paraded by even so called "moderate" Muslims. Their holy books (quran/hadiths) have detailed accounts of this and no major islamic organization has ever disputed their validity.

Ask any Muslim apologist and they will come up with a dozen excuses for why Mohammed did it but none will ever deny it. They'll tell you things like, it was acceptable at that time, or she was a special exception and allah permitted it, but as far as I'm concerned, any adult male who can become sexually arroused by a small pre pubescent girl is sick, and as a result anything that stems from him is tainted.

I urge you all to independently research the issue for yourselves. Please don't just take my word for it.
 
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dampfnudel

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2010
4,638
2,678
Brooklyn, NY
I know a guy from Yemen who moved to New York from Germany three years ago. He works here in Brooklyn and lives in Queens. He lived in Germany for about 5 years and said he was so happy to leave. He said New York and other areas of the US that he visited so far are much better. He thinks the German government is crazy to let so many refugees, or as he believes the majority of them are economic migrants, into the country. He said learning the language was difficult and getting a good job was even more difficult. He was attacked by another refugee at a refugee center and he witnessed a lot of violence there. He got a decent job once, but after a month he and other refugees were fired. They were told they didn't do the job right, but a German worker who liked him told him they just needed extra workers to handle a surge in demand. They were promised long-term employment. He said the weather was bad and you could cut the tension there with a knife. He said housing is bad. He didn't feel he could have a good future there and actually felt bad for Germans who were nice and helpful to him. He doesn't believe they will have a good future there either.
 

DrewDaHilp1

macrumors 6502a
Mar 29, 2009
603
11,793
All Your Memes Are Belong to US
I know a guy from Yemen who moved to New York from Germany three years ago. He works here in Brooklyn and lives in Queens. He lived in Germany for about 5 years and said he was so happy to leave. He said New York and other areas of the US that he visited so far are much better. He thinks the German government is crazy to let so many refugees, or as he believes the majority of them are economic migrants, into the country. He said learning the language was difficult and getting a good job was even more difficult. He was attacked by another refugee at a refugee center and he witnessed a lot of violence there. He got a decent job once, but after a month he and other refugees were fired. They were told they didn't do the job right, but a German worker who liked him told him they just needed extra workers to handle a surge in demand. They were promised long-term employment. He said the weather was bad and you could cut the tension there with a knife. He said housing is bad. He didn't feel he could have a good future there and actually felt bad for Germans who were nice and helpful to him. He doesn't believe they will have a good future there either.
Well if anything the Germans know how to throw some parties. Circa 1914 and 1939.
 

mrxak

macrumors 68000
They don't say anything for the same reasons I mentioned above. Because islamic organizations such as CAIR have worked hard to create an environment where it's improper to criticize any part of the religion.

You have to look at this from their prospective to understand why for example, ISIS thinks it's ok to rape. The central figure of their religion, Mohammed, had a 6 year old wife. From ages 6 to 9 she would place his genitals between her thighs and rub her against it to achieve orgasm. Then at age 9, while she was still pre-pubescent, he had sex with her.

These aren't fringe allegations that are disputed. These are accepted facts that are paraded by even so called "moderate" Muslims. Their holy books (quran/hadiths) have detailed accounts of this and no major islamic organization has ever disputed their validity.

Ask any Muslim apologist and they will come up with a dozen excuses for why Mohammed did it but no one will ever deny it. They'll tell you things like, it was acceptable at that time, or she was a special exception and allah permitted it, but as far as I'm concerned, any adult male who can become sexually arroused by a small pre pubescent girl is sick, and as a result anything that stems from him is tainted.

I urge you all to independently research the issue for yourselves. Please don't just take my word for it.

Another favorite tactic of islamic apologists is to bring up bad things that people of other religions are supposedly guilty of, whether or not religion was a motivating factor. Again, this is not a denial of the disturbing commands in the quran and hadith, just a distraction to shield islam of any criticism.

I used to believe islam was a religion of peace when I was younger, then I read the quran and hadith myself, read the commentaries by respected mainstream islamic scholars, and learned that the peace is for other muslims only. Everyone else has to convert, be a slave, or die.

We really are looking at the start of World War 3, here. If only western leaders would wake up and realize it before too much of the west is lost. Unfortunately, they all seem to be caught up in a liberal haze of moral relativism and political correctness. I would rather we had some realists who listen to exactly what ISIS (and other islamic groups before them) have been saying, and take them at their words. They believe they're fighting in an apocalyptic war of total conquest to bring about a global caliphate. If we don't start treating that as an existential threat, much in the way we treated communism and fascism in the last century, we are going to be in a lot of trouble. Either we believe that democracy and freedom are worth fighting for, or we don't. It would be nice if we defended our values before too many agents of the enemy are already among us sowing chaos and destruction. As others have pointed out, ISIS is planting just those sorts of agents among the migrants, and since those (real) migrants are not going to assimilate at all, they will be easily convinced to become more fundamentalist and take up the banner of terrorism as well.

Europe should really treat this as the invasion it is, and defend themselves. I'm sure there are some among the migrants who are not merely opportunists seeking an easy life in a gullible country, or terrorist sleeper cells waiting for activation, but are genuine refugees who are fleeing the violence and want to live a life of genuine peace somewhere safe. There are certainly many who call themselves muslim who aren't terribly observant, or have liberal views of their religion and pose no danger whatsoever. There are plenty of who call themselves Christian but only attend church on holidays (if that) and don't know much about the Bible. I'm sure most who call themselves muslim have no interest in jihad. There is no doubt a humanitarian crisis underway in the Middle East, with many genuinely innocent victims who need help. The best help they can get, however, is an overwhelming coalition military response that exterminates the fundamentalists who are responsible for the violence, not just in Syria but across the Middle East, fixing the problem once and for all when liberal muslims are finally able to have an islamic reformation or simply become vaguely secular. I certainly don't relish the idea of World War 3, it will be a horrible bloody mess, but the alternative is they exterminate us. World War 3 has already been declared by the other side!

I don't think Europe will defend itself though. Not until some big things happen, and a lot of people lose their lives in big European cities. The worry of course is that outraged Europeans elect some extremists who aren't so discriminate in their response. Germans in the 1920s and 30s had some legitimate grievances, but the result was Hitler... an overreaction to say the least. Likewise the Russians had legitimate grievances against the Tsars, but the Bolsheviks were far worse. Countries under a great deal of internal stress are quite dangerous to themselves as well as others. Well-meaning leaders should recognize when those stresses are increasing, and take the right steps to relieve them before they get out of hand. The right steps right now would be to deny these migrants entry, stave off the economic and social crises these migrants pose, and instead use their militaries to fight the root of the problem. Unfortunately these well-meaning leaders are blinded by leftist ideology that refuses to see the problem for what it is and react to it rationally.
 
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Daalseth

macrumors 6502a
Jun 16, 2012
599
306
Who's saying it will ”solve the problem”? It's about helping (some) individuals that are in dire need. So it solves or help the problem for some. And I don't see how that's a bad thing.
It's not a bad thing at all.

There's an old story about a man walking down the beach. He sees a little girl running back and fourth. He realizes that she's picking up starfish and other creatures left stranded by the tide and tossing them back in the sea. "But there are thousands of them all along here. What difference can you possibly make?". She thinks for a minute and then says "I can make a difference for this one".

Yes helping those in need is a fine thing, I'll probably donate myself. But unless the root cause of the migration is addressed, the tide of misery will not stop. I fear that too many will wipe their conscious clean with $25-$100 tossed toward the Red Cross.
 
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