Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

yellowtruck

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2013
134
1
I find it hilarious that people still claim to find a connection between Samsung phones and iPhones.

I find Kriten Wiig's facial expression hilarious when she does that "target lady with the silly voice and all. That bowl hair cut tops it off!!" as with people who pretend that Samsung has not been repeatedly busted and charged millions for theft of tech over the iphone..

Chuckling as-we-speek! : D
 

antbikerjl

macrumors member
Jan 12, 2009
37
0
"Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. (Korean: 삼성전자; Hanja: 三星電子) is a South Korean multinational electronics company headquartered in Suwon, South Korea.[2] It is the flagship subsidiary of the Samsung Group, amounting to 70% of the group's revenue in 2012,[3] and has been the world's largest information technology company by revenues since 2009."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Electronics

Samsung Electronics revenue in 2013 was $221 Billion. As a whole, Samsung Group's 2013 revenue numbers were $327 Billion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Group

Also - here's a Yahoo story in which its stated that mobile made up approximately 70% of Samsung's revenue but that took a hit last year (down to 60%)...it doesn't state that number in relation to Samsung Electronics, but that would make the most sense.

Suffice it to say, the health of mobile has a HUGE impact on the overall company. But they are a far cry from dead and buried.

Apple's 2013 numbers below (for poops and giggles):

Total Revenue = $170.91 Billion
iPhone revenue = Roughly 52% of Apple's total revenue ($88.87 Billion)

Wikipedia and Google are your friends.

You also need to factor in that subsidiaries of Samsung Group outside of Korea are most likely NOT equated into Samsung Group's publicly stated revenue as they do not legally need to disclose that information (IE: $327 billion revenue of Samsung Group is Samsung Electronics + other Korea-based divisions of Samsung Group). I wouldn't be surprised if some of those subsidiaries are holding companies with multiple (tens of) billions. Apple must disclose its total/real revenue due to being a publicly traded company, Samsung Group does not...

As people have previously stated, in terms of size, Samsung far outweighs Apple. Apple may have cash-on-hand than a lot of Samsung divisions, but they also have a fraction of the R&D budget and total expenses Samsung has.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
I find Kriten Wiig's facial expression hilarious when she does that "target lady with the silly voice and all. That bowl hair cut tops it off!!" as with people who pretend that Samsung has not been repeatedly busted and charged millions for theft of tech over the iphone..

Chuckling as-we-speek! : D

And Apple has been fined for copying Samsung.

If you pay attention to the lawsuits they win, though, it's not current products. Yet people are acting like they STILL copy.
 

JAT

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2001
6,473
124
Mpls, MN
before the iPhone there was an obvious trend towards bigger and bigger screens and less and less buttons.
Forgetting the stupid fanboy argument for a moment, that part is completely wrong. My phone at the time was the tiniest I ever had, one of the tiniest ever. And then there was this whole movement in 2008 where people here wanted the iPhone to get smaller, not larger.

Stop making crap up to try to prove a point.

BTW, I believe it was HTC that started really going bigger. Samsung followed, now we have what, 7' phones?
 
Last edited:

kdarling

macrumors P6
The all-touchscreen concept was not introduced by the iPhone (SE P800 is from 2001) and standard smart phone features like 3rd party apps and 3G connectivity were obviously not either.

Yep. Heck the first smartphone ever back in 1994 was all touch. And others followed, with dozens if not hundreds having been made by 2004.

a_touch_history1.png

By 2006, capacitive all touch concept and prototypes were all the rage, with their sales debut publicly predicted to occur in 2007.

concept_phones.PNG

All leading up towards similar looking designs:

touch_evolution.png

Of course, much of this was kept from the California juries, at Apple's insistence. After all, what would've happened if the jury had seen Samsung's prototype UI from 2006:

samsung_ui_concept.png

Or Samsung's prototype phones from before the iPhone:

2006_samsung_designs.png

If Apple had truly believed in their own innovation, they wouldn't have bent over backwards to get much of the prior art evidence excluded from the trial.

Apple had a big influence in getting other makers to move faster, but this stuff was coming anyway. It probably would not have looked exactly the same, or it might've looked even better, we'll never know.
 

TechGod

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2014
3,271
1,124
New Zealand
Apple is going to take chip fab away from sammy and that will hurt more than lawsuits. Add in pressure from China and they are getting squeezed from multiply sides. Hope they go under.

While I don't support Samsung, hoping it goes under is horrible. Do you not care about the half a mil people that will be rendered jobless?
 

Lennholm

macrumors 65816
Sep 4, 2010
1,003
210
Forgetting the stupid fanboy argument for a moment, that part is completely wrong. My phone at the time was the tiniest I ever had, one of the tiniest ever. And then there was this whole movement in 2008 where people here wanted the iPhone to get smaller, not larger.

Stop making crap up to try to prove a point.

BTW, I believe it was HTC that started really going bigger. Samsung followed, now we have what, 7' phones?

A trend is not defined by what phone YOU possessed. I'm not making anything up, please read the post from kdarling directly below yours.
 

Trapezoid

macrumors 65816
Mar 19, 2014
1,429
0
Yep. Heck the first smartphone ever back in 1994 was all touch. And others followed, with dozens if not hundreds having been made by 2004.

View attachment 484573

By 2006, capacitive all touch concept and prototypes were all the rage, with their sales debut publicly predicted to occur in 2007.

View attachment 484578

All leading up towards similar looking designs:

View attachment 484574

Of course, much of this was kept from the California juries, at Apple's insistence. After all, what would've happened if the jury had seen Samsung's prototype UI from 2006:

View attachment 484577

Or Samsung's prototype phones from before the iPhone:

View attachment 484576

If Apple had truly believed in their own innovation, they wouldn't have bent over backwards to get much of the prior art evidence excluded from the trial.

Apple had a big influence in getting other makers to move faster, but this stuff was coming anyway. It probably would not have looked exactly the same, or it might've looked even better, we'll never know.


Four out of the six disputed patents in the first trial were software related, and all of the patents in the second were software related. What would have happened if apple wasnt granted the motion to exclude the above? Samsung would still be found guilty of the software patents. Again, i cannot understand why people insist that samsung didnt copy. Every company including apple does. Why is it so difficult to just admit it and move on? Instead of blaming the courts, the jury, and the system?

Incidentally, why was the above prior art excluded? I know you know but youve conveniently left out the reason. So why not tell the whole story? Youll find that your reason will once again be "the system is not fair".

I dont know if youre being disingenuous when you post or just hoping no one bothers to dispute you....
 

zipa

macrumors 65816
Feb 19, 2010
1,442
1
TouchID was certainly developed by Apple. They didn't invent the fingerprint sensor, but TouchID as an implementation is most certainly an innovation. Look at how many flagships had such a feature before the iPhone 5S. Now see how many have some attempt?

The sensor is what makes it special. Or actually, what makes it work. The fact that it mostly work is what seems to be so special with it. TouchID itself, i.e. using fingerprints to unlock and authorize stuff is nothing special, I've had it on computers for a decade, if not longer. It's just that the sensors are so horrible that I haven't even bothered to set it up on my last two laptops...

Nothing about Apple's processors is standard.

Everything about it is standard. It is a standard ARM processor, just as Samsung's Exynos or Qualcomm's Snapdragon. The only special thing about is that Apple does not sell it to third parties, AFAIK.

You know, it's not like Apple went out and invented a completely new CPU architecture and instruction set from scratch.

I've never used anything like Continuity....perhaps I don't know about or have access to all these cloud services you do....the ability to pick up anything at any time on any of my devices without set up seems pretty unique. But perhaps I'm wrong.

Well, I have never used Continuity, period, but being able to pick up on an email or other cloud service from any device/platform certainly is nothing new. Having some app icon automatically popping up and annoying me is certainly not something that I have felt the need for, nor does it sound like anything I'd be willing to pay for. But who knows, maybe there's more to it, and I'm reserving passing final judgement until I've given it a proper try.
 

DeathChill

macrumors 68000
Jul 15, 2005
1,663
90
Everything about it is standard. It is a standard ARM processor, just as Samsung's Exynos or Qualcomm's Snapdragon. The only special thing about is that Apple does not sell it to third parties, AFAIK.

You know, it's not like Apple went out and invented a completely new CPU architecture and instruction set from scratch.

I believe Exynos was a standard ARM design but Apple and Qualcomm are both custom designed ARM processors. Both companies (and I believe Samsung now has one as well) have instruction set licenses so they can design processors compatible with ARM. They are not standard ARM designs.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
Everything about it is standard. It is a standard ARM processor, just as Samsung's Exynos or Qualcomm's Snapdragon. The only special thing about is that Apple does not sell it to third parties, AFAIK.

You know, it's not like Apple went out and invented a completely new CPU architecture and instruction set from scratch.

I believe Exynos was a standard ARM design but Apple and Qualcomm are both custom designed ARM processors. Both companies (and I believe Samsung now has one as well) have instruction set licenses so they can design processors compatible with ARM. They are not standard ARM designs.

Actually.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_system_on_a_chip

Since the A4, Apple's chips are designed by Apple. They were based on standard ARM designs until the A6. Apple designed their own ARMv7 chips as opposed to licensing standard designs.

Coincidentally, the A6 and A7 have been the two chips that have brought Apple to the forefront of the "benchmark wars". Whereas they used to rely solely on efficiency and tight integration despite somewhat lagging processor power, the A6 and A7 were both (at the time of their release) the fastest mobile chips out there.

There are tons of manufacturing and hardware design processes that Apple has innovated and even invented, though none of it is really sexy because we don't see what goes into the building of these devices.

I still hold the advent of super large displays came about as the need for more power and battery life in highly-inefficient systems like Android used to be (especially skinned Android). It just so happened people liked the larger screens and companies like HTC and Samsung did a good job marketing them.

Apple on the other hand has always tried to find a way to pack more into the same or less space. The results have been new manufacturing processes, new battery chemistry, customer processor/SoC designs etc.

And I still say many of these features they've borrowed can be considered innovations because they actually made them work. You don't think Apple had a hand in designing the TouchID hardware? You don't think Apple's tight ecosystem integration will give Continuity a huge edge over platform-agnostic cloud services?

----------

*clipped for space*

Ya ya....let's trot out all the prototypes everyone else had but ignore the fact that the iPhone was in prototype well before 2007 as well.

And isn't the whole idea that Samsung was very involved in Apple manufacturing processes so they had a leg up on the industry in knowing what Apple would do?

Perhaps those Samsung prototypes of 2006 were based on their knowledge of an iPhone prototype?

And even though people love to squeal about the "rounded rectangle" stuff, as has already been pointed out, software was the main focus of the first two patent trials. Which, I believe Samsung lost. Had Samsung simply stated "we like these things about your software, can we license them", none of this would be necessary.....

Apple certainly borrows from other companies. But how many licensing agreements do they have in place? I know they have them with Microsoft, Nokia, Google, HTC, Motorola....they may tout their implementations as "brand new" but that's because they are. While the underlying feature may have been borrowed, only Apple does things exactly like Apple. That "borrowing" they do is licensed.

Samsung doesn't seem to care about that. I think one of the bigger instances of Apple ignoring licensing had to do with Samsung trying to hold on to a bunch of LTE/wireless patents and claiming they weren't standard essential.

At any rate....people want to have it both ways. Either Apple copied and Samsung didn't or Samsung copied and Apple didn't.

I'm here to say both borrowed and Samsung did so illegally at times.

To top it all off, here's a link to a 2005 iPhone prototype that proves Apple really started the larger display craze: http://www.networkworld.com/article...tos-of-apple-s-earliest-iphone-prototype.html

;)
 
Last edited:

KdParker

macrumors 601
Oct 1, 2010
4,793
998
Everywhere
Uh, Apple's not hurting for R&D cash. They're sitting on over $160 billion.

More wouldn't hurt. You tend to take on risky ideas when capital is there to spend.

----------

Why? If I throw money at some problem, will I solve it? How e many lawyers were working on the next generation iPad?

Having said that, good news.

----------


Research and Development is not just for solving problems. It can also be used for creating new innovative ways to use the iPhones of the future.

With more money in the coffer, Apple can entertain more 'possiblities'.

----------

Apple R&D has been adequately funded for many years. Only in government do they think that throwing money at it is the solution to every problem.

My grandpa always used to say, if you need 5 coats of varnish on the floor, paying for more painters, brushes, or varnish won't get it done any faster.

But designing a better varnish that can be applied in 2 coats with the results as the before is what innovation is about.

R&D isn't just sovling problems

It is also creating better products, and/or new products that you didn't even know you needed until it was produced.
 

JAT

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2001
6,473
124
Mpls, MN
A trend is not defined by what phone YOU possessed. I'm not making anything up, please read the post from kdarling directly below yours.

You mean, the one that says nothing about phone size? Blackberry and Razr were the popular phones at the time, not prototypes that most people never heard of until people started arguing about whether anybody noticed the iPhone in 2007.
 
Last edited:

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
You mean, the one that says nothing about phone size?

Phone sizes in the late 90's and then early 00's were trending two different and distinct ways.

There were those looking to make phones smaller. Flip phones like Startac and many early phones were shrinking in thickness as well as dimensions.

However, saying that this was the only trend occuring in the phone industry would be incongruent as there were devices that moved in the opposite direction.

One of the most popular flip phones of the time, prior to the global shift to Smartphones was the Motorolla RAZR flip phone. This phone was physically larger in width and height than a large majority of other devices. And it was insanely popular. It was around this time, that large, colour, and vibrant displays were possible. it would be incorrect to say that nobody recognized this move to larger devices to accomodate displays prior to the iPhone, as there are several different devices that were already moving towards this.

When the smartphone revolution started, companies were attempting to bring Cellular capabilities to PDA like devices, which had already moved to larger screen, minimal button devices. Their was a combined effort by virtually the entire industry to reposition "smart" devices to touch enabled, internet capable handsets. While many were trapped playing "catchup" to the then dominant Blackberry, not all were in this mindset.

Larger devices with larger screens were already on their way in when the iPhone broke into the marketplace. Meanwhile, there was still always a contigent who wanted smaller devices and to this day, there still is. However, today, when devices are completely interacted with a screen, and most hardware buttons are long gone, the larger the screen, the more input you also allow and the more you can display at once. Both camps, those who want larger, and those who want smaller are both equally valid, as what one desires to use is completely personal in their prefference.
 

Lloydbm41

Suspended
Oct 17, 2013
4,019
1,456
Central California
Apple vs Samsung finally officially dead

Samsung and Apple had already agreed to cease all lawsuits in every country, except the US, but as of today I doubt Apple will even bother suing Samsung in the US.

Today the USPTO just invalidated the autocorrect patent that essentially gave Apple $119 million in damages in the second trial. Samsung has already made Judge John aware of the decision, so all that award is likely to be vacated. And money damages from the first trial is likely to be significantly reduced. After all is said and done Apple and Samsung are likely to have spent more money on lawyers fees than either would be awarded in damages.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,368
8,948
a better place
Samsung and Apple had already agreed to cease all lawsuits in every country, except the US, but as of today I doubt Apple will even bother suing Samsung in the US.

Today the USPTO just invalidated the autocorrect patent that essentially gave Apple $119 million in damages in the second trial. Samsung has already made Judge John aware of the decision, so all that award is likely to be vacated. And money damages from the first trial is likely to be significantly reduced. After all is said and done Apple and Samsung are likely to have spent more money on lawyers fees than either would be awarded in damages.


I hope this is an end to it, but as we all know it will just be someone else suing someone else 3 seconds later..
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
15,849
18,423
US
No that would be apple. You're blind if you can't see that.


Apple copies EVERYTHING and they copy it LATE!

Name 5 ORIGINAL functionalities that have been stolen from Apple?

You can't, because apple copies everyone else.

Fingerprint scanner
Pull down menus
Widgets
Video calling
Taking pictures whole shooting video
Front facing cameras
Voice assistant


NONE of this debuted on an apple product.

Then there is this....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
6,002
60
Premià de Mar
You mean, the one that says nothing about phone size? Blackberry and Razr were the popular phones at the time, not prototypes that most people never heard of until people started arguing about whether anybody noticed the iPhone in 2007.

Size? There were popular smartphones with screen size more than 3.5" in 2006-2007 before the iPhone was released

----------

Forgetting the stupid fanboy argument for a moment, that part is completely wrong. My phone at the time was the tiniest I ever had, one of the tiniest ever. And then there was this whole movement in 2008 where people here wanted the iPhone to get smaller, not larger.

Stop making crap up to try to prove a point.

BTW, I believe it was HTC that started really going bigger. Samsung followed, now we have what, 7' phones?

The my XDA Flame with a 3.7" 640x480 didn't existed and they didn't sold them in February 2007
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.