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zell

macrumors newbie
Mar 15, 2004
2
0
There are many problems with this.

First off and foremost, the rumored SkyNet works off a Multinet tesk system, taking more than one resource for each calculation. Most people know that apple is a big fan of UIS (unitarian information system). They not only promote UIS, but invest lots in it. The main reason being that it is the best way to cover their tracks, being an all in one computer AND software company. Preprogramed computers WILL and DO work better on UIS systems. There is no reason why apple would be backing something that goes against a net file core they are promoting and investing in.

Second, Symbiot would most likely not opt to use Xserve since they have a modified BIOS. Symbiot needs a total data back traking with the type of developing and researching they do. They would be losing money for every Xserve they purchased because of loss of sponcership. and even if they were donated like some say, they would still be putting their entire filesystem at risk by mixing and matching file systems.

Thirdly, Apple put a ton of money into InfltraServ two years ago and lost big time. i doubt they would be willing to risk a loss on something simular.

those are just my opinions.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,910
44
Andover, MA
SilvorX said:
what IF this is true? the riaa could end up noticing this and end up using xserves that run it

Well, given how 'dark ages' their thinking is, I doubt it. They seem more prone to sue than to prevent.

On the other hand, if they do use it, I wouldn't think hacking the RIAA site would be a good way to thwart them anyway.

Of course, your response was probably sarcasic, so likely you can ignore this...

:)
 

Snowy_River

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,520
0
Corvallis, OR
0 and A ai said:
except for that hack from afghanistan that brought down two of the biggest servers in the world.

Except that the majority of the hacks that crashed those servers really came from Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan, but no one wants to talk about that because Saudi Arabia is our ally.
 

jtrascap

macrumors newbie
Oct 25, 2001
23
0
Are we SURE this is real?

As much as I'd like to see any advance on the war on worms, did anyone else check-up on this company?

I tried to locate them via US West Dex, errr...I mean QuestDex, errr...DexOnline (or whatever it is this month). I can't find them by their address or doing a reverse look-up via the phone number. Tried the same in the YellowPages.com and also no-go.

Not good so far...to me it sounds like an elaborate hoax.
 

mrsebastian

macrumors 6502a
Nov 26, 2002
744
0
sunny san diego
wtf is all that?! you say skynet and i'm thinkin the terminators are coming. i'll be in some remote, isolated spot in alaska, so call me when the terminators are gone ;)
 

eric67

macrumors 6502
Oct 17, 2002
271
0
France, Europe
it is official

here it the text of the offical release:
® Symbiot, Inc. 8501 N. MoPac, Suite 300 Austin, TX 78759 Intelligent Security Infrastructure Management
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Symbiot Selects Xserve G5 for iSIMS Deployment er in the field of ced that it has serve G5’s dual 64-nchmarks,” said , and reliability of tse applications.” le network assets prise customers to e countermeasures. 30 gigaflops of rfect fit for the e,” said Ron Okamoto, Apple’s vice-president of Worldwide Developer Relations. “Symbiot’s iSIMS running on Xserve G5 creates a compelling value proposition for enterprise nth. Symbiot’s f their subscription t Symbiot ty Infrastructure nt Systems (iSIMS) marketplace. With the aid of proprietary artificial intelligence (AI) software, Symbiot's iSIMS (intelligent SIMS) analyzes network patterns to provide real-redictive tools for managing and responding to security events. Symbiot's iSIMS software ith existing firewalls, intrusion detection systems, and intrusion prevention Company and product names may be trademarks of the respective companies with which they are associated. Contact: Francis X. Milano Symbiot, Inc. 512-233-1911 ### AUSTIN, TEXAS – March 18, 2004 – Symbiot, Inc., an emerging leadIntelligent Security Infrastructure Management Systems (iSIMS), today announselected Apple Computer’s Xserve G5 for deploying iSIMS in the enterprise. “Symbiot’s customers will appreciate the speed and performance of Xbit processors, which produced noticeable improvements in our performance beMichael W. Erwin, president of Symbiot, Inc. “The speed, computational power hese machines make them a natural choice for business-critical enterpriSymbiot’s iSIMS utilizes artificial intelligence to automatically profiand determine the significance of security threats in real-time. It enables enteraccurately identify malicious attackers in order to plan and execute appropriat “With dual PowerPC G5 processors, Xserve G5 delivers more than processing power per system, is easy to manage and affordable, making it a peenterpris customers that want to strike back against network-based attacks.” Symbiot’s iSIMS software is scheduled for release at the end this mocurrent customers will receive a free iSIMS upgrade for Xserve G5 as part of their agreements.
 

hob

macrumors 68010
Oct 4, 2003
2,004
0
London, UK
It's got to be some kinda network geek joke :p Can you IMAGINE the legality of what they're proposing?

So, say I'm using a windows computer (god help me) and somehow (hmmm, let me think) a DDoS worm thingy gets onto it - so iSIMMS checks me out and DoS's ME! Through no fault of my own, I'm disconnected from the internet - with no way to download any kind of virus fix...

Hmm, I can hear you all laughing at me now - cos I'm trying to be cool and understand it all, but actually it IS a joke that I just don't get...
 

mrroboto

macrumors newbie
Mar 22, 2004
3
0
why do afraid of MAC virus

Why so afraid of virus, its funny to see how fearfull people are now a days, everything makes them afraid, I personally welcome a good virus for MAC, lets see if it can be really done and lets make the OS even harder to do that, lets be for real sooner or later we either take a stand and make an OS as anti virus as possible or just unhook our computers from the internet.
Scary cats.


Sol said:
I voted this story as a negative because attacking hackers is guaranteed to provoke more attacks. Apple & Symbiot's solution will most likely attack all the wrong servers since any hacker worth his salt would be one step ahead of their victum. It would be better to develop a better FireWall than this Skynet-like solution.

I am also concerned about all those Windows-only virus writers who will suddenly have a new target on their sights. I love my virus free PowerMac and I love even more telling every Apple-basher that "the Mac has NO viruses". Having said that, it is innevitable that some evil genius will release a virus for OS X one day.
 

mrroboto

macrumors newbie
Mar 22, 2004
3
0
Time to take responsibility

Hey your computer is used for attacks and your one of the many who leaves their Wi-Fi open why not take responsibility, same here, you don't drive without out a lincense and not take resposibility. If your on line and your unable to know what is going on then get software that will. Don't have the money then you sure can't be able to pay for the dsl or cable you have so get off. Go back to modem power. :p

DoS are getting to be a joke and cost a lot to companies, but are the people trying to fix it hell no, I find stuff in peoples computers all the time when I do house calls. At least half of the people I have service in the Miami, FL area have had no Anti-Virus software or Anti-spyware. What is there excuse, I did not know, well ignorance is no substitu for messing everyone elses day.


hob said:
It's got to be some kinda network geek joke :p Can you IMAGINE the legality of what they're proposing?

I'm using a windows computer (god help me) and somehow (hmmm, let me think) a DoS worm thingy gets onto it - so iSIMMS checks my out and DoS's ME! Through no fault of my own, I'm not disconnected from the internet - with no way to download any kind of virus fix...

Hmm, I can hear you all laughing at me now - cos I'm trying to be cool and understand it all, but actually it IS a joke that I just don't get...
:D
 

GregA

macrumors 65816
Mar 14, 2003
1,249
15
Sydney Australia
You think this would mean viruses for OS X?

In the press release it meantions Xserve G5 several times, but nowhere does it say Mac OS X. Could easily be Linux on G5. I haven't read through the symbiot website so may be wrong.

Of course, the hoax side of things is another interesting marketing question. Particularly if what someone mentioned about Symbiot, Skynet, and March 31 all being related to T3... could be a fun press conference IBM is moving towards.
 

illumin8

macrumors 6502
Apr 20, 2003
427
0
East Coast, US
X86BSD said:
No, this is not cool stuff. If it does what they report it to do it you might as well cancel your internet feed now. It will destroy the net as we know it.
This has to be the most moronic, brain dead, stupid, illegal, damaging, destructive device to ever be conceived to be hooked up to a network. These a$$hats will be sued into oblivion as soon as the first one is turned on. This has got to be a hoax. No company could possible create a device this damaging and this ill conceived and expect it to A) sell. and B) not expect the entire NANOG and NOG groups to bomb their offices into dust.
This is an absolutely destructive device akin to a nuclear warhead for networks. Insane.

Finally, a little reason in this thread. My God people, reading most of these comments, it's as if any company that uses an Apple product can do no wrong in your eyes. Think about it objectively, and if any other security company proposed doing something so drastic and damaging to the internet, everyone would be up in arms.

We are not living in biblical times where the law says an eye for an eye. The first company that deploys such a device designed to DoS a hacker back, will end up being sued for millions of dollars by Comcast or some other cable ISP. Think about it: script kiddies don't launch attacks from their own workstations. They use some unfortunate luser's computer that got compromised with a Trojan. Let's say they launch an attack from Joe Sixpack's compromised Windows machine attached to a Comcast cable internet connection. Now, Skynet (another unfortunate business decision, naming it such an ominous and negative name) attacks back, and their DoS not only knocks out internet service to Joe Sixpack, but also takes down every other cable customer in his neighborhood, and costs Comcast several thousand dollars (probably tens of thousands) figuring out what is wrong and finally blocking the DoS at their core routers or something. Comcast is going to sue the company that launched the DoS attack. And some silly "self defense" argument is not going to hold up in court.

Just because you commit a crime against me does not give me the right to resort to "vigilante justice" and commit crimes against you.

I'm surprised anyone at Apple would even want to be associated with a company that is so obviously selling snake oil.
 

hob

macrumors 68010
Oct 4, 2003
2,004
0
London, UK
mrroboto said:
sooner or later we either take a stand and make an OS as anti virus as possible or just unhook our computers from the internet.
Scary cats.

I went on the road today with my PowerBook - and no internet connection. Do you realise how boring computing is with no internet?!?!? Scary indeed!
 

bar italia

macrumors member
Mar 4, 2004
75
0
illumin8 said:
Now, Skynet (another unfortunate business decision, naming it such an ominous and negative name)

Did you even read any of the previous posts? "Skynet" is a nickname that the person who posted this rumor came up with. It's not what the company is calling it. :rolleyes:
 

aswitcher

macrumors 603
Oct 8, 2003
5,338
14
Canberra OZ
Well as long as they get around the legal issues...because a DNS response to a suspected attack is very likely to have collateral damage if Hackers are smart and are spoofing their packets...
 

dudeami

macrumors regular
Feb 4, 2004
120
0
Texas
IMHO I think there is more intelligence in this product then to simple have it go around trying to "take out" computers. I do not think that would happen until a very extended period of attacks and coutner measures, and after all other efforts have failed. I think the principle for the product is sound, however they are not offering many technical details. That should change at release. From reading the documents, this product is basically going to be placed on the upper tier of the network security infrastructure. Gathering data through the sensor agents installed on the firewalls, and intrusion detection systems, and other CVP or stand-alone systems such as anti-virus and spam prevention systems that are already implemented at many companies. These log files are indeed huge. So intro the AI, it will read the log files and try to assess the activity in those logs. I would imagine that the primary function would be to use this intelligence to create policies (A firewall term for sets of rules that determine actions to be taken on packets, such as allow and log short, or drop and log long, or encrypt and NAT, etc.) then use the effector agents installed on the firewalls to push those policies. Then wait for futher activity. Theoretically if someone is spoofing addresses and you stop the initial attack, then the machine switches to a new IP address, this product would detect this through the collected data from the firewalls, and IDS system and push a new policiy to block that address, much faster then a person could do this. You probably could have the product push the policies for you, or create the policies, then wait for verification to apply them. One of their statements is that it should be highly configurable. It doesn't go into detail on upstream. It might simple have a database of ISP's and/or discover the information through whois or other means, then create report for you to use, like here is the attackers information, this is ISP that they are initially traveling through, and here is the list of everywhere the traffic is flowing through, here are the names and phone numbers of the administrators for those ISP (Which should be publicly available on the Internet when they register the domain namespace. So call them and see if they can shut it down, at least they can look through the database of subcribers and make a better determiniation of where it is coming from. These are things that we do manually for our clients all the time. I think what they have also added. Is that when the ISP simply will not respond or take action, such is the case for alot of activity coming from Asia, and the attacks continue even with efforts from the firewall, that to stop pushing policies to your firewalls ever 30 seconds, it will take action to try to stop it. If the ISP is not responsible enough to stop a proven attacker, should be enough info from the logs the system has gathered, then will they care if that particular system is receiving the same attacks as it is dishing out? This should never come to this point in areas where the ISP's are responsible enough to respond to these situations.

Many companies have already taken that stance, that if you are not responsible for devices that you place on the internet, then they don't want to hear from you. Big examples would be the blacklists and open relay databases that many security systems utilize. This system could probably automate this requests as well. For example it detects email being relayed, it reports this to an ORDB that your security system subcribes to. The company managing the ORDB takes the information runs it open relay tests and verifies that the suspect email system in not configured correctly. Then they add the IP address to the ORDB. Any company subcribing to that data base will automatically deny email coming from that IP address. Eventually as happens with some of our clients, they will realize that the email is being dropped, from ndr's being received by their users, and check into, they will find that their system is configured as an open relay and take responsability to stop that, which they should have done in the first place. They then called the company running the ORDB and report the probelm as being fixed, the ORDB managers verify this and remove them from the database, and everyone receives their email again. One less misconfigured server on the internet. Another example of something that many companies don't take responsibility for is reverse dns records. The RFC states that should be a corresponding prt record for the a record registered for your email servers. In other words, my email system is receiving an SMTP connection from you on a IP address and you say you are mail.company.com. I should be able to verify through legitimate DNS sources that your IP address is resolveable to mail.company.com before exepting email from your system, rather then just assuming you are who you say. However registration of ptr records often gets ignored. I would imagine that this system would follow many of the guidelines for internet use, and aid in legitimate means to defend your network. Primarily I think it will do what its name stands forit will sit at the top tier of companies existing security infrastructure, and it will inteligently manage that companies existing security infrastructure. iSIMS intilligent Security Infrastructure Management Systems.
 

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
749
Brunswick, MD
PCs used for attacks

I do house calls and fix this type of thing regularly, as well. Honestly, one of the biggest problems is the "casual computer user" who would have previously just been using a dial-up modem for his/her Internet access. With all the discounts on DSL and cable, though (plus the promise that it frees up your phone line), these people are signing up for high speed access left and right. Machines on dial-up modems usually don't have major spyware/adware/virus infections, simply because those programs can't successfully download themselves completely on a user's PC before he/she finishes checking email or looking at a few web pages and hangs up.

In my city, DSL is only about $4 a month more than the phone company's dial-up Inet access, so some people using it really don't have lots of extra cash for things like firewalls and antivirus software. Still, I see most of the people making *some* attempt to block spyware and virii. They just don't know which tools are good and which aren't. At least 2 customers tried to fix their own problems by downloading "anti spyware" utilities offered as free downloads on the net, only to find out those programs are fakes, which actually further infect your machine! Many others spent the money on Symantec/Norton Anti-Virus, yet it didn't catch a couple "trojan horse downloader" programs, which got in their machines and started downloading/installing more virii/spyware as fast as they could, in the background! (I ended up running Avast or AVG antivirus to remove the hidden trojan horses.)

The virus problem truly has gotten out of hand on the Windows platform, and it currently goes far beyond simply "ignorant users not using anti-virus software". Many systems are so badly infected, I can't get all the virii removed even after running 4 or 5 different anti-virus packages and spyware removers on them. (And I've been doing PC support for a living for 14 years now - so what makes you think a novice, casual user will be able to do it?)


mrroboto said:
Hey your computer is used for attacks and your one of the many who leaves their Wi-Fi open why not take responsibility, same here, you don't drive without out a lincense and not take resposibility. If your on line and your unable to know what is going on then get software that will. Don't have the money then you sure can't be able to pay for the dsl or cable you have so get off. Go back to modem power. :p

DoS are getting to be a joke and cost a lot to companies, but are the people trying to fix it hell no, I find stuff in peoples computers all the time when I do house calls. At least half of the people I have service in the Miami, FL area have had no Anti-Virus software or Anti-spyware. What is there excuse, I did not know, well ignorance is no substitu for messing everyone elses day.
:D
 

Snowy_River

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,520
0
Corvallis, OR
kingtj said:
...Many systems are so badly infected, I can't get all the virii removed even after running 4 or 5 different anti-virus packages and spyware removers on them. (And I've been doing PC support for a living for 14 years now - so what makes you think a novice, casual user will be able to do it?)

Well, I'd say that it should never be allowed to reach that point, and when it does, then it's time to reformat and reinstall. In my experience, that's a sure-fire way to get rid of all such problems.

(While, I must add that I've had a user who I do tech support go through and perform the reformat and reinstall himself, because he didn't want to pay me to do it, and he managed to copy several infected files over with his backup. After his reformat and reinstall he proceeded to also reinstall a couple of viruses on his machine, before reinstalling the antivirus software - despite my advice to install the aV software before anything else.)

In any event, there's clearly no easy solution. At least not for most people. For me, and most of us here, the easy solution is just not to own Windows machines. "No thank you, I'm on a Mac only diet..." ;)
 

windowsblowsass

macrumors 6502a
Jan 25, 2004
786
442
pa
to whoever sent this in you need toi listen to my good friend mr. Mackey
"ahh drugs are bad dont do drugs mmkay"
maybe we should change the have you evcer been drunk thread at ur comp to have you ever smoked crack at ur comp
 

rjrufo

macrumors regular
Sep 18, 2002
207
1
Boston
hob said:
I went on the road today with my PowerBook - and no internet connection. Do you realise how boring computing is with no internet?!?!? Scary indeed!

I had to laugh at that. :) I travel several times a year, and find it boring when I have to use dial-up. I don't even open my PowerBook if there isn't any way to connect to the internet, it's beyond boring without it.
 

noverflow

macrumors regular
Jul 4, 2002
188
0
windowsblowsass said:
to whoever sent this in you need toi listen to my good friend mr. Mackey
"ahh drugs are bad dont do drugs mmkay"
maybe we should change the have you evcer been drunk thread at ur comp to have you ever smoked crack at ur comp

You know fugazi!?!?!?!
Awesome!
 
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