Apple CEO Tim Cook Speaks on Importance of Privacy, Encryption at Champions of Freedom Event

[gnasher729]

Bolded from your quote: You made that up and you know it. It's really funny how you pretend to lack knowledge when it suits your narrative. I'm pretty sure you know how targeted advertising works. You know it's a fact that Google doesn't give anyone's data to advertisers. Pretending to be dumb just to be able to post stupid stuff is beneath you. You're better than that.

What difference does that make? Someone posted something an MacRumors, and even before someone else made another post, he found an advertisement clearly matching his post. Do I care, or does anyone care, what exactly is exchanged between Google and the advertisers? What I care about is the effect: Post on MacRumors, advert appears.

 

[TsunamiTheClown]

Believe me Tim, I want to believe you. But honestly, until you also own the cellular service and run the fiber there are so many other holes in the ship that privacy is something of a platitude these days.

User beware. Thats the best policy imo.

 

[jhh]

This is pretty radical speech given the past decade. Glad Apple is unafraid to say this obvious truth.

Tim Cook will be indicted for something... within a year... for talking like that. Hide and watch.

 

[RickInHouston]

Let's say I've never been on the internet, never had any kind of online account.

I sign up for a gmail account. I go online with Google Chrome. I go to Nike and look at running shoes. I then go to Macrumors and an advertisement on the page shows Nike shoes.

Did Google SELL my personal data to Nike? Does Nike now have my email address? Or, did Google accept money from Nike and say, when an online presence looks at your site we will put you on advertising space on other pages they visit?

Personally, this whole thread, the entire argument is looking at the small picture. Don't we kind of want a personal device mining our emails and websites so that it reminds us (from an email it mined) that we have a flight in three days, that we have a dentist appointment in two hours, that we need to by an anniversary gift, ... Isn't that where 'phones' are really headed?

I'm not getting emails from sites I visit when shopping online, so how is Google selling my data?

 

[LordVic]

I'm not getting emails from sites I visit when shopping online, so how is Google selling my data?

They're not. anyone saying that Google, Apple, Microsoft... any of these guys "Sells your data" is either lying through their teeth to sell you something else. or ignorant.

None of these companies at any point of time ever, turns over any information to 3rd parties. they're not for sale.

as mentioned a million times in this thread, and any other thread on this forum that fanboys say this FUD.

its called data aggregration. They take the data points. and use those data points to sell advertising space.

EG: Shoe company's target market is young men between 16 and 34, who have large disposable cash reserves, like shoes. This company goes to google and says "we want to advertise to this target demographic". Google takes their add. and serves it to this target demographic.

thats it. Thats all these advertisers are doing. at no point, ever, is your data going to that 3rd party advertiser.

Anyone telling you otherwise is full of ****. anyone who repeat that they do is spreading FUD.

 

[BaldiMac]

While I agree completely with Tim's words. He's being a bit disigenous and hypocritical.

As long as Apple is also participating in Data mining and targeted advertisement via iAds platform, they are participating in the exact same business practice that they're pointing fingers at others for.

When you use an Apple device / service. if you actually read the EULA, they clearly and outright say they are doing this.

Of course, you can check one box to turn off targeted Apple advertising on your Apple device.

is it on the same mass scale as Google? No. But thats hardly relevant.

Hardly relevant!? Only in that it makes your argument simpler! Companies that track more data are significantly more concerning to me than companies that track less data.

Knowing what music and apps I purchased is one thing. Tying that information to my web usage, email and messaging is another.

 

[LordVic]

Of course, you can check one box to turn off targeted Apple advertising on your Apple device.

you can shut it off on Google's android devices. (not sure about 3rd party Anrdoid's though).

 

[HenryDJP]

Apple isn't exactly innocent of this. They just do it on a smaller scale. If they didn't, how could Apple know what type of music I like and make "Genius Recommendations?" They keep and use data from past music purchases and gather data from my iTunes Match.

That's not the same as violating your privacy and sharing your information with others. That's the issue people are having. You can't even buy something from a website that you register with without them sending off your personal info to other dealers to spam you. Suddenly you get unexpected phone calls and emails from 3rd parties without your permission.

 

[BaldiMac]

you can shut it off on Google's android devices. (not sure about 3rd party Anrdoid's though).

And the difference in scale comes up again. Google doesn't only do targeted advertising on Google's Android devices.

 

[TheHateMachine]

They're not. anyone saying that Google, Apple, Microsoft... any of these guys "Sells your data" is either lying through their teeth to sell you something else. or ignorant.

None of these companies at any point of time ever, turns over any information to 3rd parties. they're not for sale.

as mentioned a million times in this thread, and any other thread on this forum that fanboys say this FUD.

its called data aggregration. They take the data points. and use those data points to sell advertising space.

EG: Shoe company's target market is young men between 16 and 34, who have large disposable cash reserves, like shoes. This company goes to google and says "we want to advertise to this target demographic". Google takes their add. and serves it to this target demographic.

thats it. Thats all these advertisers are doing. at no point, ever, is your data going to that 3rd party advertiser.

Anyone telling you otherwise is full of ****. anyone who repeat that they do is spreading FUD.

You can try all you want but you won't convince a fair amount of people here that this is how it works. They are just going to hang on to their dogma that their lord told them about the competition and corporate cheerlead even harder.

 

[LordVic]

And the difference in scale comes up again. Google doesn't only do targeted advertising on Google's Android devices.

But you can still shut off them using your data from browsers and your devices.

instructions to do so have already been posted in this thread (page 2)


However, I DO understand there is a scale difference.

and people have the right to put their trust wherever they wish it.

I just personally like evidence of abuse before I slam one or the other company for abusing that trust.

So far, there is zero evidence of either Google or Apple, or Microsoft abusing that trust. Neither of these companies have sold information to 3rd parties. Neither of these companies have leaked vast amounts of data.

I have had zero evidence to distrust goog or Apple.

 

[phillipduran]

So here we have a corporation wanting to use its influence to modify government behavior. You know, those corporations that have corporate profit. Big tech. Capitalists.

With so many folks complaining about profits, capitalism, influence lately, here comes Apple who is stating and could end up using its influence to further the stand for privacy and freedom of the citizens from a growing and power grabbing government.

Isn't that a good thing?

My point I'm making is that let us stop pointing fingers at profits, capitalism and Big <whatever> and instead understand that good character and morals are what is important for a business to posses. When you find a business that wants to have slaves build products in another country while slashing and burning their lands to get materials, you blame that company's lack of character, ethics and morality. Don't blame profits or capitalism, because those are just methods or things that are neutral, how you use them is what matters.

 

[HenryDJP]

I am all for privacy. But I also don't want to pay too much. Currently, iCloud costs about twice as much as competitors. At the very least, I sincerely hope Apple will (1) increase free storage to something more reasonable and (2) reduce price by at least half.

While it's true that Apple charges twice as much (depending on the package) you have to keep in mind that their competitors don't give the consumer much choice. Case in point with Dropbox. It's either 2GB free or the next option is to pay $9.99 a month for a terabyte. I don't even need half of that but Dropbox gives no other options less than that. Apple's iCloud offers tiers starting at $0.99 a month for 20GB. At least you have choices after the freemium.

 

[casperes1996]

How are iAds generated? Is it completely random?

See the quotes by Rigby and diegogaja that I refer to further down in this post.

Nope, nothing is shown there for me. I use iCloud Drive to save games (because I delete some of them often) and they are not mentioned on that list at all. As I said, sometimes I download all apps and they somehow pull user data from iCloud, even though there shouldn’t be anything there. Either my account is broken or something is really going wrong, or both.
View attachment 557924

Just go to the Apple support forums, iCloud Keychain turning on by itself happened to other people. I don’t ever want to have my passwords in the cloud, I would never do this. I actually changed all my passwords when I discovered this.

I’ve never had so many problems before with an online service like I have with iCloud. Apple is not offering any solutions for this and at this point I just don’t trust them at all with private data anymore.

Peculiar. I've never had problems with iCloud, and Keychain is always off for me.
Your iCloud storage management page doesn't look right at all though. There should be more entries, even if you don't have anything else. Should for instance be an "Other", even if it's empty.

Neither does Google. They just use the data to build a profile about you, which they then use to sell targeted advertising space. Apple's iAd does exactly the same. On their iAd marketing page, Apple boasts that they are offering "over 400 targeting options" to advertisers, which means that they maintain detailed profiles about their users. That includes e.g. location, demographic information like age and gender, information about your tastes from tracking your music/movie/book purchases etc. They have also recently added a mechanism to track what you do in apps.

Or you could educate yourself: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074

Does Google give you that option?

Love it! I always thought I was the only one that cared that google mines the hell out of everything and that I'm "paranoid" or "who cares, I have nothing to hide".

It's not about hiding. Would you feel comfortable to see a bunch of advertisers taking notes outside the windows of your house on everything you do, even though you have nothing to hide. Same exact issue.

Will continue to support apple because of this.

Whenever I hear the "I have nothing to hide" argument, I always say: "But you lock the door when you go to the toilet don't you? I certainly do. Everyone poops, but I'd rather not be watched while I do it.

 

[H2SO4]

Believe me Tim, I want to believe you. But honestly, until you also own the cellular service and run the fiber there are so many other holes in the ship that privacy is something of a platitude these days.

User beware. Thats the best policy imo.

The only privacy TC is really interested in is that of how much tax they funnel through Ireland and how much they avoid paying to the state, (because they can afford clever people that circumvent the laws that Joe Public cannot). Talk about ignoring the spirit of the law.

 

[69Mustang]

What difference does that make? Someone posted something an MacRumors, and even before someone else made another post, he found an advertisement clearly matching his post. Do I care, or does anyone care, what exactly is exchanges between Google and the advertisers? What I care about is the effect: Post on MacRumors, advert appears.

What difference does it make? You're kidding right? You make up a lie and justify by saying it's okay because an advertisement appears. As long as it fits your narrative. Do you care what exchanged between Google and advertisers? Well you care enough to post false information in this forum. So yeah, you do care. The fact that you know how targeted advertising works makes it even more egregious. But hey, you got your point across amirite? Allowances can be made for those who don't know. What you did was deliberate deception. Honestly thought you were better than that.

Integrity and honesty should mean more to you than trying to prove a point by making up crap. At least in my opinion it should. Google isn't some paragon of virtue and they've done plenty to take issue with. Lying isn't necessary to level criticism. Sorta makes you look worse than the thing your criticizing.

 

[BaldiMac]

So far, there is zero evidence of either Google or Apple, or Microsoft abusing that trust. Neither of these companies have sold information to 3rd parties. Neither of these companies have leaked vast amounts of data.

I have had zero evidence to distrust goog or Apple.

Google has been found to abuse that trust. And Google has leaked vast amounts of data.

 

[cwt1nospam]

At least with Google, you know the quid pro quo exchange. Free awesome and super reliable email, but we have bots that mine your email to show you relevant ads. Free word processing and office tools, same deal. Free image storage, same deal. With Facebook, you get social networking software and entertainment of sorts, in exchange for data mining for ad purposes again. If someone doesn't like this deal, they don't have to opt-in, or they can opt-out if already in.

What makes you think there's an opt-out with Google? I never opt-in or use their email, photos, etc., but can't seem to keep their cookies off of my machine for more than a few seconds.

At least with the government there's some representation! I have some control, however small, and the government isn't going to be interested in me since I'm not a criminal or terrorist. Google's interest in me is unending and insatiable.

 

[cwt1nospam]

Again, where they make the majority of their money is irrelevant.

Yikes! Your post demonstrates a profoundly poor understanding of how business works. A corporation exists for the sole purpose of making money. Where and how it gets that money is the primary factor in everything it does. The old saying goes "It's impossible to make a man understand something if his income depends on him not understanding it." Google will never understand why anyone would want them to leave their personal information alone.

 

[apolloa]

Well Cook can say whatever he wants, but I'll never use Apple cloud services because if the easy way people hacked it. Its hypocritical for Apple to criticise competitors when they themselves have been shown previously to offer weak security.
Apples mantra seems to be pay for weak security as its cheap until its breached when you pay more for better security.

Apple does some security right, but not enough is right to give them the ability to criticise others.

 

[Piggie]

I still do not know if people here really want total privacy in their communications when using Apple's services.

Please be honest.

Do you want to be assured that people, perhaps planning terrorist attacks, or child abuse, can use Apple's services in total safety, and can be certain of no one in authority able to access what they are up to?

Is this genuinely what you want?
For Apple to be THE same place for people like this to use as they know they are untraceable.

You can't have it both ways.

Either you want total 100% rock solid security that is safe for these people to use.
Or you want them able to be detected and caught, in which case you don't want what Tim is saying.

what do you want?

 

[69Mustang]

Yikes! Your post demonstrates a profoundly poor understanding of how business works. A corporation exists for the sole purpose of making money. Where and how it gets that money is the primary factor in everything it does. The old saying goes "It's impossible to make a man understand something if his income depends on him not understanding it." Google will never understand why anyone would want them to leave their personal information alone.

Ha! Your post demonstrates either a profoundly poor understanding of context or a severe lack of reading comprehension. When you take snippets and co-opt them, you can make someones statement seem to be anything you want. Clearly I was negating the relevance of profit as it related to privacy and advertising, and not some overarching treatise on the operation of a business. It's clear because I stated it in the quote. If you're going to try to twist my statement, may I suggest you try harder?

As for that personal information, I'll ask you the same question that started the topic. What do you think Google does with that information that Apple doesn't do? Careful, your answer may reveal a profoundly poor understanding of how each of those businesses work.

 

[ericinboston]

The one thing I respect Google for is that they’ve never hidden the fact that they’re evil. If I ever use a Google product, no matter which one, I know that they will datamine the **** out of it. Apple is at best ambiguous with some good intentions, but it’s not enough. Apple is not at all transparent about the data they already have on you and they don’t make it easy to leave them behind either. You can’t delete your Apple ID and you can’t review the data that is in the cloud.

good points...and let's not make Apple out to be so wonderful. Think about it: Let's say you have an iPhone: Apple knows your email, your phone #, your credit card info for purchases, your browser history, what music is on your iPhone, etc. From a technical point of view, there is absolutely nothing stopping Apple from getting any data off your phone...last #s dialed, people you facetime, how long you facetime each person, what times of day you do whatever activities, websites you visit most often, usernames of all your websites, email addresses you send/receive from most often, which email friend sends you attachments that you like to save on your phone, your entire Contacts information, etc. ANYTHING that is transmitted or received on that iphone, ipad, or ipod can easily be scooped up and sent to the mothership Apple. And I'm sure that's buried somewhere in their 35+ page license agreement.

 

[LordVic]

Google has been found to abuse that trust. And Google has leaked vast amounts of data.

your first link: doesn't show any evidence of google selling / distributing private data. if you read it, you'd see they were hit by fines for collection of data despite the "opt-out" being ignored in safari only. is it... bad? yes. good on fining them and hopefuly they learned that if someone Opt-out, the platform they did it on is irrelevant. you let them opt out

and for the NSA spying and data collection? this isn't exclusive to google. Apple is also subject to the NSA spying and data collection and requests, so it's a point against ALL data collection organizations


Again: there still has been zero evidence presented that Apple or google sells / distributes personal information to any third party

repeating it is either disingenuous, or ignorant.

 

[BaldiMac]

Well Cook can say whatever he wants, but I'll never use Apple cloud services because if the easy way people hacked it. Its hypocritical for Apple to criticise competitors when they themselves have been shown previously to offer weak security.
Apples mantra seems to be pay for weak security as its cheap until its breached when you pay more for better security.

Apple does some security right, but not enough is right to give them the ability to criticise others.

When were Apple cloud services hacked?? Are you talking about the celebrity photo leaks? Stealing someone's password isn't the same thing as hacking the service.