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LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
It's about the supply chain and the expertise surrounding it. There's a reason why there's not a single LCD factory in the country.

Metallurgy and engineering for jetliners is different from microelectronics.

I don't think anyone is really meaning full 100% suppy chain moving to the USA, especially since it's impossible due to natura resource locations etc that you've pointed out

there are however, certain parts, and final assembly that can easily (relative) that can be done in the west.

certain computer companies already are. Lenovo for example, a chinese company, manufacturers computers in the US for US market.

it's not that Apple cannot do this. it's Apple does NOT WANT TO do this
 

GuruZac

macrumors 68040
Sep 9, 2015
3,599
11,488
⛰️🏕️🏔️
Does Trump (and his supporters) really believe that Americans want to assemble iPhones for minimum wage pay? There's a reason these companies outsource work.
I tend to think more conservatively about these things, but I also tend to agree with Andrew Yang. We are going to have a real problem if we don't address training and compensating better in this country. When all of our minimum wage to $15/hr jobs are automated away, what will those unskilled workers do for employment? I think bringing manufacturing back to the US like this is the 1950s was always a pipe dream and I voted for Trump (only to avoid a Hillary presidency). Our country is so broken politically with appallingly bad leadership (Maxine Waters, AOC, Pelosi, Schumer, among many others, in the GOP as well) I don't know who will implement the policies necessary.

Back on topic, it may be lip service, but I would rather Tim publicly state his intention to keep producing the Mac Pro here than to say nothing at all. If nothing else, we have got to get away from a dangerous reliance on China.
 
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Altis

macrumors 68040
Sep 10, 2013
3,166
4,897
The sad thing a lot of people think so.
Honestly, there is no way Americans can compete with 3rd World countries in large scale manufacturing. Standard of living, red tape, insurance costs, taxations, etc. It's way more costly in USA.
It's an illusion that is bestowed in order to get votes.

Why would we want to be competing with countries with such lower living/working/environmental standards?

How can we maintain those standards if if can all be avoided by employing elsewhere and importing for nothing/next-to-nothing?
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,589
23,392
I don't think anyone is really meaning full 100% suppy chain moving to the USA, especially since it's impossible due to natura resource locations etc that you've pointed out

there are however, certain parts, and final assembly that can easily (relative) that can be done in the west.

certain computer companies already are. Lenovo for example, a chinese company, manufacturers computers in the US for US market.

it's not that Apple cannot do this. it's Apple does NOT WANT TO do this

Lenovo assembles some computers in the U.S. to meet TAA (government) orders.

Of course Apple doesn't want to do this. It makes no sense from a supply chain nor skilled labor perspective.

All of this is about forcing Apple's hand. Sure, they could subsidize production in the U.S. and suffer from quality and supply chain issues. One of the reasons why Apple is so profitable is because they're able to extract so much value from the supply chain.

It's like asking Tesla to manufacture batteries in California and then test and do final assembly in New York. It makes no sense to separate out the work. The teams are in different time zones. The feedback loop is broken.
 
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LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
I’m not a Trump supporter, but if assembling products in the US led to a 10% price increase, I’d still buy it.
a lot of people would buy locally if it were a bit more expensive because they know it's going to pay locally and help local economies. small businesses in local areas, and other ancilliary benefits.

I know I have and done so in the past. When I played goalie, I could easily get made in China Reebok pads for $400. My first set was actually one of those. they were garbage. they fell apart fast and I actually got injured THROUGH THEM

I found a local manufacturer who hand builds every set of pads. custom designs. custom sizing. friendly. invited me to visit the shop. Pads cost $1500. easily lasted me 10 years (over 600 estimated games)

it was worth every penny. The guy grew his business. hired local craftsmen. expanded his product line, hired more people and now has a relatively succesful local manufacturing business that supports his community. None of that Reebok was willing to do (they were even in the process of closing the last reebok pad factory here so it could be moved to china)

the min/maxing of profits like this is horrendous for economics. It tends to keep money isolated and concentrated in few hands. Local businesses paying good livable wages tends to have a feedback affect of boosting economic conditions as more people with more money on hand tends to spend that money, which further stimulates economic growth.

this wall street catering by corporations for stock price is shortsited nearterm foolery. we've been here before. it resulted in the great depression when suddenly nobody had enough money to even buy bread. if people can't even afford the basics, they're not buying even cheap stuff to prop up your stock value.

We cannot move all trade local. there are things we need trade for. free trade itself is not inherently bad. However, the rampant humane rights abuses to ensure the constant min/maxing while keeping money out of the real economic drivers is bad. manufacturers should attempt to provide localized manufacturing in the regions they sell in. Apple shoul have multiple locations for final manufacturing in the west, eu and asia for those markets.

as I said before, Apple IS perfectly capable of doing it. Many many smaller and less profitable companies do it succesfully. Apple doesn't do it because they don't want to and it's 100% about stock value
[doublepost=1564526637][/doublepost]
Lenovo assembles some computers in the U.S. to meet TAA (government) orders.

Of course Apple doesn't want to do this. It makes no sense from a supply chain nor skilled labor perspective.

All of this is about forcing Apple's hand. Sure, they could subsidize production in the U.S. and suffer from quality and supply chain issues. One of the reasons why Apple is so profitable is because they're able to extract so much value from the supply chain.

It's like asking Tesla to manufacture batteries in California and then test and do final assembly in New York. It makes no sense to separate out the work. The teams are in different time zones. The feedback loop is broken.
you're still talking about min/maxing though.

yes, from a min/maxing point of view, you're right. unfortunately, life isn't about the mn/max and people everywhere, including local town usa still need to eat.

this behaviour isn't new to the world though. Go read the Communist Manifesto (though, don't fall into communism, that's not the point). Marx and Engel, while their "solution" was kind of bad, describe economic conditions of the time in great detail and what led to the desire of communism.

constant min/maxing and the shifting of jobs to places where cheap labour could be abused, crippled the russian economy by growing the poor classes, until the point where the poor were so poor they had no choice but to rebel. There are striking similarities between that state of affairs and today.

at some point, corporations, which are part of society have to answer to, and take cresponsibility for ensuring that same societies well being.
 

BootsWalking

macrumors 68020
Feb 1, 2014
2,270
14,203
It's about the supply chain and the expertise surrounding it. There's a reason why there's not a single LCD factory in the country.

Metallurgy and engineering for jetliners is different from microelectronics.

Yeah but all they're doing is assembling the components together here anyway. If you think Apple's supply chain is complicated you should see Boeing's. And planes are filled with computers and electronics, most of them custom.
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,915
25,862
Mr. Cook is the CEO of a $960 Billion company. If he truly wants to make the Mac Pro in the USA then he certainly has the authority and resources to make that happen. Actions speak louder than lip service.

Wanting to make the Mac Pro in the Untied States is far different than coming to the conclusion that's a good business decision after all of the factors are weighed.
 

code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
Mr. Cook is the CEO of a $960 Billion company. If he truly wants to make the Mac Pro in the USA then he certainly has the authority and resources to make that happen. Actions speak louder than lip service.

Says the armchair CEO of a multi-dollar personal bank account. :p
 
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farewelwilliams

Suspended
Jun 18, 2014
4,966
18,041
Mr. Cook is the CEO of a $960 Billion company. If he truly wants to make the Mac Pro in the USA then he certainly has the authority and resources to make that happen. Actions speak louder than lip service.
CEO of a publicly traded company where he has shareholders to answer to.

Telling shareholders Apple sells Mac Pro at a loss doesn't make sense
 

Williesleg

Cancelled
Oct 28, 2014
479
785
Tim Apple is so weak.
Trump will **** Apple if they don't make the overpriced thing that probably needs dongles to work in the USA.
So if Tim wants to sell any here at a price < $30,000 he'll have to cave to The MAGA man.
 

code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
Wanting to make the Mac Pro in the Untied States is far different than coming to the conclusion that's a good business decision after all of the factors are weighed.

Some people refuse to educate themselves on global supply chain management, no point wasting your time. For these people money is the solution to everything.
 
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code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
Trade relations is about the only thing I agree with Trump on. We have to negotiate our way through it. I think buying made in America is good. I do this all the time when I can. I always look at items from other countries as more cheaply made. But I don' know.

The offshoring of production started in the early 90’s if not sooner, it’s not going to be fixed in 4 years or even 8 if re-elected. :p
 
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jonblatho

macrumors 68030
Jan 20, 2014
2,509
6,194
Oklahoma
I just want the MP and XDR display to have a cheaper options. $11k entry point is a no-no.
The Mac Pro's pricing is probably set where it is, but the Pro Display XDR's name certainly gives them room to later introduce a stripped-down "Pro Display" with fewer bells and whistles at a lower cost.
 
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citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,915
25,862
Some people refuse to educate themselves on global supply chain management, no point wasting your time. For these people money is the solution to everything.

Agreed. The business case could very well be a disaster (I believe it would be), but no worries. We'll just spend a bunch of money and go forward anyway.
 
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LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
CEO of a publicly traded company where he has shareholders to answer to.

Telling shareholders Apple sells Mac Pro at a loss doesn't make sense

the thing is, no,Apple does not need to pander to share holders

this notion that share holders are the investors that feed the company money is a fallacy.

asside from a public offering of stock directly frm Apple, all 3rd party trading of Apple shares remains in the open market and directly from purchaser to individual.

Apple could tell the share holders to pound sand. sure , the leader might be replaced. but they absolutely o not owe the majority of their share holders direct min/maxing. its the board and executive that dictate directive, not share.

the only reason Tim caters so much to the market is he hedged his renumeration directly to stock price. it's in his personal best interest to keep it as high as possible. Apple would be perfectly fine with a smaller market cap. it wouldn't affect the products, or their own revenue/profit.

seriously. we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. massive catering to stock over social good has le to recessions and depressions when local communities no longer can afford to keep buying products because of maximization of costs resulting in supressed wages and money not being "trickled down" to the economy

anyone who believes that corporations should only answer to the stock market is wrong. it's short term dangerous game. corporations should be answering to far far more than purely what the stock market dictates.

Dell is a perfect example of a company that catered to the stock till it was nearly cratering. Michael Dell bought back controlling insterest, told the market to **** off, and went back to making slightly less profit, but producing higher quality machines.

Apple is perfectly capable of this. But again, Tim Cook
 

chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,307
1,988
Berlin
Tim Apple is so weak.
Trump will **** Apple if they don't make the overpriced thing that probably needs dongles to work in the USA.
So if Tim wants to sell any here at a price < $30,000 he'll have to cave to The MAGA man.
Cool. All hail president trump. What’s the point of your post? I don’t get what you’re trying to say.
 

code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
Agreed. The business case could very well be a disaster (I believe it would be), but no worries. We'll just spend a bunch of money and go forward anyway.

When Apple goes bankrupt because these same people do not want to buy $2k base model phones to be built in the USA is when they will chant Cook is the worst CEO yet and is no supply management guru, there is no logic in a ridiculous discussion. :p
 

JoelTheSuperior

macrumors 6502
Feb 10, 2014
406
443
It amazes me that people think Apple can just miraculously move production to the US. It's not a matter of not being willing to pay proper wages or anything like that - hell, wages in China aren't even that low anymore.

The simple reality is that the US does not have factories equipped to build computers in the volumes that Apple requires them in. Yes, Apple has the money to set up such factories but there's two fairly major flaws here:
1. Even with the correct factories, the factories still wouldn't necessarily have access to the relevant labour, nor the proximity to the other factories making other components that gives Apple a huge advantage in the manufacturing space.
2. All the time spent building factories in the US is time factories in China are using to further improve their manufacturing processes, driving down costs and improving quality. Apple quite simply *will* fall behind their competitors if this happens.
 
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