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H2SO4

macrumors 603
Nov 4, 2008
5,672
6,953
"Great local alternatives" That's believable in other countries, but in the UK? :p

The Finns have Nokia, the French have Alcatel, the Koreans have Samsung (and in a happier time, LG), and the Chinese have more than everyone else combined.

The British have... uh... positive attitudes? :cool:
Don't forget Brexit.

/s
 

Stormz

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2007
118
152
Brit here. Yes this is a dumb move by our Conservative government and I suspect it will backfire spectacularly, for the reasons mentioned by many here.

That said, the ruthless capitalism of the US is not a system I would ever want to see take hold over here. As the saying goes, Capitalism - left to its own devices - is like a runaway train; socialism is the gentle tapping of the brakes. That doesn't excuse every new regulation or every intervention of course - but as a general principle, I think it's a healthy one to live by. As often with matters of human happiness, the key is achieving balance.
 

robco74

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
509
944
"Great local alternatives" That's believable in other countries, but in the UK? :p

The Finns have Nokia, the French have Alcatel, the Koreans have Samsung (and in a happier time, LG), and the Chinese have more than everyone else combined.

The British have... uh... positive attitudes? :cool:
The British have Arm. You know, the company that makes CPU and GPU designs used by almost all Android devices, and upon whose ISA Apple's chips are based on.

It is becoming quite clear however that globalism is dying. For better or worse, it's going to be much more difficult and expensive to do business around the world. Until now, companies could more or less offer the same products and services around the world with some tweaks here and there. That is no longer the case. For Apple, it's likely to remain more profitable to remain in as many markets as they can. For smaller business and startups, that may not be the case.
 
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1284814

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2021
160
163
Just another country unable to compete so they resort to regulation.

Europeans often complain that goods and services are more expensive in the EU/UK. Here's a good example why.
Hah getting a superior product necause of regulation is awesome. It’s because of this mind set that rights to repair is the way it is in the USA. Chill out man, and let them force Apple to let you use your computer like an actual computer.
 

DarthDon

macrumors 6502a
Apr 17, 2020
701
795
Who ist still using Google? Today that's the same like using Win XP. Everybody who can, fu**s you data.
 

rjjacobson

macrumors demi-god
Sep 12, 2014
8,247
25,588
Got love those Apple Fanboys siding with a multibillion company instead of regulations to protect consumers. Next time your iPhone breaks outside of the 1 year warranty don’t come back crying.
That might be true, but at least here I find state and federal politicians stupid on how they try to regulate anything. Some want to just break up things like the Ma Bell period the result was horrendous for years with phone services suffering in my opinion

Another example I will give you (I am not pro democrat, republican or libertarian just tired of incompetent and often corrupt politicians ) is when a prominent progressive talked about breaking up Apple Services and Tech so small guy could compete basically. What stupidity, politicians understand little in science or tech, I have observed and used both windows systems at work and my own home and family apple ecosystem.

I prefer hands down how well (yeah not perfectly) the apple OSs and hard ware sync and make transition and use between devices as trouble free as possible. Yep there are glitches but when I look at Microsoft Windows tech from all over the place and personally it is a pain in but to use as a person who tends to want to do it myself not get the Geek Squad from Best Buy to do it LOL.

And I always get Apple Care on my expensive apple devices and been fine so yeah 1 year is not as good as two year warrenty but no company gives them extensions for free you either pay apple care or higher prices in EU that require a 2 year warrenty.
 
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MacProFCP

Contributor
Jun 14, 2007
1,222
2,952
Michigan
How cute, the all American obsession with socialism. For some Americans even having healthcare free to the point of access is ‘socialist’. Go figure…

The American healthcare system is based on the fact that nothing in life is free. Contrary to the believe of many, tax payers do not have unlimited income. Taxes are taken from people*. It is not an endless source. There is nothing wrong with being successful, and, a capitalists system allows for more people to become successful by encouraging self employment, which itself is the greatest avenue to middle class.

Furthermore, when things are given away, they are not appreciated. Humans require lots of things to live: food, housing, plumbing, heat, clothes, healthcare and dental care. The question for Americans is not, do we allow poor people to die, rather, how much government involvement is appropriate and how much of the burden do we put on the tax payer? The US was created for the purpose of a limited government and this mindset remains in the fabric of the country, though, admittedly, it is changing.

Lastly, I am not advocating here for any particular position. I am simply explaining the position.

*businesses pay taxes too, but business are ultimately owned by people.
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,491
19,261
Haha they want to allow side loading.... Good luck enforcing the easy to cancel subscriptions and even better luck later trying to enforce ease of refunds. hahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Has canceling subscriptions and getting refunds been an issue for Mac and Windows users who have been sideloading freely installing whatever apps they choose? It hasn't been an issue for me for well over 2 decades.

Why do you think it will be worse on an iPhone than on a Mac or Windows PC?
 
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Ronald Reagan

macrumors regular
Dec 9, 2016
131
217
They will soon have great local alternatives that at the moment can't grow because of the market power of the huge companies.
So, you would support Apple leaving the UK market entirely then? It would only greatly speed up that process; a pure consumers utopia.
 

iigsie

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2007
141
116
The British have Arm. You know, the company that makes CPU and GPU designs used by almost all Android devices, and upon whose ISA Apple's chips are based on.

It is becoming quite clear however that globalism is dying. For better or worse, it's going to be much more difficult and expensive to do business around the world. Until now, companies could more or less offer the same products and services around the world with some tweaks here and there. That is no longer the case. For Apple, it's likely to remain more profitable to remain in as many markets as they can. For smaller business and startups, that may not be the case.
While the Acorn RISC Machine was invented in Britain by British geniuses Steve Furber and Sophie Wilson afaik it’s not British owned although is still based in Cambridge.
 

d686546s

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2021
660
1,603
I know, I know. AND LOL about there being alternatives. You mean large Chinese brands flooding the market? And their government doesn't give two dumps about the CMA or their fines.

"Dear CMA, the Chinese government respectfully declines to pay your fine on our business in your market. You can send your complaints to God or another imaginary person who cares. Get a larger military or a larger economic value and maybe you will have more leverage than useless words on a piece of paper and a name badge nobody respects." - CCP, People's Republic of China

Well Oppo and OnePlus were effectively banned from Germany, for example, so there are enforcement mechanisms and not being able to sell to the EU at all, for example, would certainly hurt.

Would any of this be painless and easily done? No of course not, but equally if you think that US tech giants are completely irreplaceable you might be in for a surprise.

In the end it might even be a net benefit by keeping more of the value in Europe and be able to drive the agenda, rather than being dependent on product decisions made in California with US consumers in mind.
 

robco74

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
509
944
Has canceling subscriptions and getting refunds been an issue for Mac and Windows users who have been sideloading freely installing whatever apps they choose? It hasn't been an issue for me for well over 2 decades.

Why do you think it will be worse on an iPhone than on a Mac or Windows PC?
Canceling services has been an issue, at least in the US, for some time. I was only recently able to cancel my NYT subscription online because CA law now requires it. Before that, you had to call or go through an online chat with a person to cancel and listen to endless sales pitches to try and get you to stay. Signing up is a few clicks, canceling is a slog. Also try canceling service with a cable company, it's a nightmare. Some companies are great at customer service, most aren't. One benefit of the App Store is that subscriptions are managed in one place, and canceling is as easy as signing up.
 

d686546s

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2021
660
1,603
The American healthcare system is based on the fact that nothing in life is free. Contrary to the believe of many, tax payers do not have unlimited income. Taxes are taken from people*. It is not an endless source.

With all due respect, the American healthcare system is based on the idea that everything should generate a profit for someone. Contrary to popular belief, Europeans actually do understand that their national insurance contributions (or whatever they are called locally) pay for their healthcare system and that this is taken from their income.

Most Europeans are just more agnostic and do not care whether their contribution is called a tax or a fee to a private insurance company. Americans always seem entirely focused on taxes while completely ignoring similar financial burdens as if it somehow mattered where the money is going.

European countries spend less per capita on healthcare while covering more people and getting at least similar, if not better, results and coverage, but of course it's great to have the freedom to not being able to afford healthcare or losing your life savings because you had an accident.

I don't know how this isn't the smart financial decision in recognition that nothing in life is free, but you do you.

There is nothing wrong with being successful, and, a capitalists system allows for more people to become successful by encouraging self employment, which itself is the greatest avenue to middle class.

Where does this idea that there somehow is something wrong with being successful even come from? The only thing on the table is whether being successful should give you unchecked power to do whatever you want and regardless of other societal harms this may cause.

We've all been strongly moving into less, not more, social intervention over the last 40 years and I'm not sure we really have a lot of great results to show for it. Life expectancy is decreasing, income inequality is rising and economic powers seems to concentrate in fewer and fewer hands, dominated by massive multinational companies.

There's nothing wrong with a market economy or private enterprise and there isn't a single 'socialist' country in Europe. The best we can muster is countries that are somewhere on the social democratic spectrum.

Furthermore, when things are given away, they are not appreciated. Humans require lots of things to live: food, housing, plumbing, heat, clothes, healthcare and dental care. The question for Americans is not, do we allow poor people to die, rather, how much government involvement is appropriate and how much of the burden do we put on the tax payer?

But when there's a choice between shareholder value and people dying the consensus does seem to be that individual profit takes precedence over human lives.

Plus, as stated above, in their quest to not put the 'burden' on the taxpayer, they really don't care if the taxpayer pays triple in private fees to get the same or a worse service because god forbid shareholders or big corporations couldn't make a good profit out of basic necessities.
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,491
19,261
Canceling services has been an issue, at least in the US, for some time. I was only recently able to cancel my NYT subscription online because CA law now requires it. Before that, you had to call or go through an online chat with a person to cancel and listen to endless sales pitches to try and get you to stay. Signing up is a few clicks, canceling is a slog. Also try canceling service with a cable company, it's a nightmare. Some companies are great at customer service, most aren't. One benefit of the App Store is that subscriptions are managed in one place, and canceling is as easy as signing up.
Never had a NYT sub, but I have had a WSJ sub where I had to call in to cancel or pause service. Did that multiple times without issue. And I didn't have any issue canceling my cable service over 10 years ago when I cut the cord.

Will canceling service be 100% trouble free for everyone? No. But it's not the end of the world scenario people like k1121j pretend it will be.
 
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ForkHandles

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2012
460
1,099
I understand that free markets need to maintain some level of regulation to ensure competition, but the EU and UK governments are heading directly towards socialism. Tried and failed.

Again, I do believe in some level of oversight. But that oversight hurts the consumer when governments are actively involved in business which stifles ambition, creativity and, most importantly, financial investment.
You know socialism is a good thing right?!

The pavements , roads, schools, libraries, police forces, fire engines, street lighting, judiciary you rely on, they all exist through the means of a society working together to pool costs and widen access!

Just imagine capitalism gone wild and you had to pay for every mile of tarmac you ever used. Every photon of light you got from the street lamps.
 

MacProFCP

Contributor
Jun 14, 2007
1,222
2,952
Michigan
With all due respect, the American healthcare system is based on the idea that everything should generate a profit for someone.

Not the case. There are lots of non-profits, including the largest insurer in my state.

We've all been strongly moving into less, not more, social intervention over the last 40 years and I'm not sure we really have a lot of great results to show for it.

Exactly. Socialism looks great on paper but fixes nothing. Income disparity is high, education lower, cost of living higher…

You know socialism is a good thing right?!

The pavements , roads, schools, libraries, police forces, fire engines, street lighting, judiciary you rely on, they all exist through the means of a society working together to pool costs and widen access!

Just imagine capitalism gone wild and you had to pay for every mile of tarmac you ever used. Every photon of light you got from the street lamps.

This comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the differences between socialism and capitalism. It is not about no government vs big government. It’s about the freedom to have open markets and that the government is not in business for profit. A government’s job begins with the physical safety of its citizens and the communal infrastructure required to support a growing economy.


And, while I believe in a limited government, I appreciate that there are things that governments must regulate… even economically. The SEC provides needed oversight to the financial markets and building codes ensure we have safe infrastructure. I am not advocating for a chaotic free-for-all. I am simply opining that, from the article, minimal government involvement in the marketplace encourages investment and allows for small business growth.
 
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frenchcamp49er

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2014
693
1,112
You know socialism is a good thing right?!

The pavements , roads, schools, libraries, police forces, fire engines, street lighting, judiciary you rely on, they all exist through the means of a society working together to pool costs and widen access!

Just imagine capitalism gone wild and you had to pay for every mile of tarmac you ever used. Every photon of light you got from the street lamps.
Your last paragraph is the socialist Democrats manifesto
 

klasma

macrumors 603
Jun 8, 2017
5,938
16,684
I always wonder what would happen if Google and Apple and Amazon just stop serving the UK. I mean, it's a big market, but is it worth giving up their algorithms?
The citizens won't be happy when they can't use these platforms anymore.
It would allow room for competitors to emerge. After being established in the UK without competition by Google et al., such a competitor could more easily expand internationally. Google et al. probably don’t want to provide for such an opening.
 
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