I think a built in HDTV receiver in a 30 inch display would add extra mostly unneeded expense to an already expensive display. I can imagine a 30 inch display with a YUC input. An EyeTV HD Firewire 800 sounds like a natural progression, and should give a better picture (digital-digital-digital) than going through the analog YUC input (digital-analog-digital)
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Apple HDTV Tuner?
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yes, there is one available for the mac, i can't remember the anything about it other then: it was of some rediculous price and on a MacAddict in 2002,upwards of more than a dual g5.
Really? I am using a Nova-T card in my PCI bus right now, with iTele software downloaded, and last year I was recording Star Trek in HDTV.
Here, I turned some of it into 3ivx MPEG-4 so my customers can see it on the 23" HD at the Apple store where I work (excuse the compression, G5 recommended):
Enterprise opening sequence
Don't forget to "View Normal Size"
I don't think that's the way to do it. The stuff's already MPEG-2 compressed, rather well I might add, at the network before it gets to their stick, and to your rabbit-ear antenna.
This is what travels down the PCI bus, around 15Mbps-20Mbps, depending on whom you're viewing.
A G5 can easily decompress this on-the-fly, even with MPlayer's code unoptimised for PowerPC. QuickTime's decoder can do better but is fussy with encapsulation and won't do AC-3 and won't let you edit
To view, a G4 desktop (not laptop) is recommended, and should be possible to get 24 to 30fps with some coding improvements. Everybody, say nice things to John Dalgleish
you will encourage him to write a fast new MPEG player for iTele.No, encoding HDTV in real time is the domain of $x00,000 hardware at the moment, trust me.
Being in the 20Mbps area means that Firewire and USB2 are entirely feasible and this means that the only thing standing between you and watching HDTV on a beautiful 17" widescreen laptop is some further code optimisation.
This is what will hopefully happen when you get an EyeTV 400.
CK.
Don't single out Australia as if it's got something nobody else is using. MP@HL MPEG-2 requirements have always included 480p, 576p, 720p (not 720i, by the way) and 1080i. And these have to be at both the framerate sets 25/50 and 24/30/60 used in "both" world regions.
The main thing (and this applies to everybody's case anyway) is to somehow reinterpolate 1080i50 and 1080i60 (not to mention 576i50 and 480i60) into their progressive-scan equivalents ... because an LCD screen is always producing a progressive-format picture, purely because of its physical characteristics.
CK.
For those of us in the US, there are no HD PCI cards available. Though, there are some interesting possibilities:
- Linux card, with open sourced drivers: http://www.pchdtv.com/
- USB 2.0 based device. Only windows drivers available so far: http://www.usbhdtv.com/
- Firewire. Several Off The Air (OTA) tuners have firewire inputs/outputs, and most HD capable HD tuners will have firewire (I think this was mandated by the FCC). Apple's firewire SDK already has tools for recording & playing back HD transport streams with AV gear: http://developer.apple.com/firewire/index.html
I have been playing around with this stuff on a cheap PC for a couple years. I've got a homebrew PVR using an HD PCI card.
With digital TV being standard MPEG2, it's very close to what's already floating around in Macs today. Being able to downscale HD content & store to DVD, or otherwise manipulate it in OS X, iMovie, iDVD, Final Cut, etc. would be great.
- Linux card, with open sourced drivers: http://www.pchdtv.com/
- USB 2.0 based device. Only windows drivers available so far: http://www.usbhdtv.com/
- Firewire. Several Off The Air (OTA) tuners have firewire inputs/outputs, and most HD capable HD tuners will have firewire (I think this was mandated by the FCC). Apple's firewire SDK already has tools for recording & playing back HD transport streams with AV gear: http://developer.apple.com/firewire/index.html
I have been playing around with this stuff on a cheap PC for a couple years. I've got a homebrew PVR using an HD PCI card.
With digital TV being standard MPEG2, it's very close to what's already floating around in Macs today. Being able to downscale HD content & store to DVD, or otherwise manipulate it in OS X, iMovie, iDVD, Final Cut, etc. would be great.
Here's what they should do...
As for Apple including a digital/HD tuner inside the (or any for that matter) is a bad idea. It is meant as a computer display, and I agree with Job's saying that computers and TVs are different beasts. Computer displays and TV screens are different because people are either watching TV OR using their computer, not both. However, with the advent of HDTV, computer screens are a nice alternative to spending thousands on a plasma screen. I think it would be a good idea though to include connections that would make it possible to hook up the Cinema Displays as an HD monitor directly (ie.. no ADC).
Not only are computers good for displaying HD content, they are great for PVR and capture/edit functions. I have been looking at getting some sort of digital/HD tuner device for my mac and have yet to find anything.
I own an EyeTV, which if you like 320x240 MPEG1 over USB is qute nice. The EyeTV 200 is a big improvement using Firewire and MPEG2, but just looking at the price made me shutter. The Formac offering looks clumsy to say the least. Since it imports in DV, using it as a PVR will lead to huge file sizes, but good quality NTSC video. It has some nice AV in/out as well.
The nice thing about digital TV (ATSC) is that it is already compressed into MPEG2 at the TV station. Most of the HD cards for PC just take this transport stream (.ts or .tp) and record it straight to the PC's hard drive. At 19.8Mbit/sec for HD video, this will be about 9GB per hour, but the quality is stunning. Most of these PC HD cards use hardware decoding, but one from Dvico, the Fusion, uses software decoding, and it shows in the price: a nice low $150.http://www.dvico.com/products_mul_hd3.html
The PC can do this in software due to DirectX video acceleration on a modest PIII at 800. Without DxVA, you'd need about a 1.5GHz chip. I've played with software decoding on the mac using VLC. Playing a 1920x1080i transport stream on my PowerBook G4 800, it is really choppy and about 2fps. The only mac able to play it without dropped frames is the dual 2GHz G5. The single 1.6 GHz G5 drops some frames.
Well what about video acceleration on the mac? The way I understand it is that the graphics chip takes over much of the MPEG-2 decoding process (ATI's Radeon or higher end NVidia). This is what Apple did with the DVD Player app in Mac OS X, and is why a 350MHz iMac G3 can play a DVD just fine. I can attest to this as in DVD Player on my Powerbook, a DVD takes around 25% of the CPU, while when playing the same DVD in VLC, it takes about 70-80%. Apparently VLC can't take advantage of the graphics card API like DVD Player can.
What Apple or any other company (ElGato hint hint) should do:
Build a Firewire device similar to the Dvico Fusion and price it at under $200. Now we can get digital transport streams into our macs. Then, with Apple's help, develop a PVR app like EyeTV to play these streams with video acceleration. I'm thinking anything over a 700MHz G4 with cache should be able to handle it with video acceleration.
This would sell big. Imagine having the device Firewire bus-powered. Plug it into your powerbook and attach an antenna (or have a built-in antenna) and you'll have a portable HDTV. WOW
As for Apple including a digital/HD tuner inside the (or any for that matter) is a bad idea. It is meant as a computer display, and I agree with Job's saying that computers and TVs are different beasts. Computer displays and TV screens are different because people are either watching TV OR using their computer, not both. However, with the advent of HDTV, computer screens are a nice alternative to spending thousands on a plasma screen. I think it would be a good idea though to include connections that would make it possible to hook up the Cinema Displays as an HD monitor directly (ie.. no ADC).
Not only are computers good for displaying HD content, they are great for PVR and capture/edit functions. I have been looking at getting some sort of digital/HD tuner device for my mac and have yet to find anything.
I own an EyeTV, which if you like 320x240 MPEG1 over USB is qute nice. The EyeTV 200 is a big improvement using Firewire and MPEG2, but just looking at the price made me shutter. The Formac offering looks clumsy to say the least. Since it imports in DV, using it as a PVR will lead to huge file sizes, but good quality NTSC video. It has some nice AV in/out as well.
The nice thing about digital TV (ATSC) is that it is already compressed into MPEG2 at the TV station. Most of the HD cards for PC just take this transport stream (.ts or .tp) and record it straight to the PC's hard drive. At 19.8Mbit/sec for HD video, this will be about 9GB per hour, but the quality is stunning. Most of these PC HD cards use hardware decoding, but one from Dvico, the Fusion, uses software decoding, and it shows in the price: a nice low $150.http://www.dvico.com/products_mul_hd3.html
The PC can do this in software due to DirectX video acceleration on a modest PIII at 800. Without DxVA, you'd need about a 1.5GHz chip. I've played with software decoding on the mac using VLC. Playing a 1920x1080i transport stream on my PowerBook G4 800, it is really choppy and about 2fps. The only mac able to play it without dropped frames is the dual 2GHz G5. The single 1.6 GHz G5 drops some frames.
Well what about video acceleration on the mac? The way I understand it is that the graphics chip takes over much of the MPEG-2 decoding process (ATI's Radeon or higher end NVidia). This is what Apple did with the DVD Player app in Mac OS X, and is why a 350MHz iMac G3 can play a DVD just fine. I can attest to this as in DVD Player on my Powerbook, a DVD takes around 25% of the CPU, while when playing the same DVD in VLC, it takes about 70-80%. Apparently VLC can't take advantage of the graphics card API like DVD Player can.
What Apple or any other company (ElGato hint hint) should do:
Build a Firewire device similar to the Dvico Fusion and price it at under $200. Now we can get digital transport streams into our macs. Then, with Apple's help, develop a PVR app like EyeTV to play these streams with video acceleration. I'm thinking anything over a 700MHz G4 with cache should be able to handle it with video acceleration.
This would sell big. Imagine having the device Firewire bus-powered. Plug it into your powerbook and attach an antenna (or have a built-in antenna) and you'll have a portable HDTV. WOW
HDTV through a Mac
FinalCut Pro4 messes with HD but doesn't really handle it too well on a Mac yet.
Until G5, AVID was almost ignoring G4 Macs in favor of high power Intel chip PCs for its top end editing suites. Now we got proprietary MoJo.
Storage of HD signal is a serious problem. Rendering and conversion times can be crippling and expensive to manage.
From another part of the Mac universe sprang the Big Mac supercomputer cluster using 1100 dual G5 Macs. Now Apple is helping Virginia Tech migrate from those G5 towers to much smaller and even more efficient G5 Xserves and Xserve TB RAIDS.
All this is making my Video Editing buddies salivate. They're thinking a small cluster of G5 Xserves combined with large Xserve RAIDS equals amazing real time rendering on a Mac at GB transfer speed.
Steve Jobs is intimately familiar with high end rendering as CEO of PIXAR.
The new G5 Macs have PCI-X slots and a huge capability in high bandwidth transfer of data over Ethernet and using fiber optics.
The Cinema Studio Displays are getting long in the tooth and there are constant rumblings about 30" monitors in G5 matching Aluminum frames, but nothing yet appears on the visable horizon except a bunch of multi-colored Mini-iPods. A distraction?
How is Apple going to deliver to us a display larger than 23" with high-contrast, high-resolution, bright vibrant color picture quality at a reasonable price so we can afford 1, or maybe 2 or 3 large 16:9 monitors to effectively and efficiently display and even wrap-around us with HDTV quality picture for high-end NLE in the next generation of FinalCut Pro?
If not a flat monitor, has Apple been experimenting with a front projector, or rear projection? Where could they find the picture quality for the next generation of computer monitor technology to usher in HDTV using a home computer? An HD Mac?
D L P - Digital Light Processing
Consider for a moment Texas Instrument's decade old technology of Digital Light Processing that Mitsubishi and Pioneer almost destroyed with an ugly and expensive first experiment. Along came Samsung and said let us give it a try. When Samsung was ready for production the picture was no longer ugly, the set no longer cost over $10 to $15 thousand dollars, it was beautiful and priced below $4,000. To production they did go on the strength of an EXCLUSIVE contract for several years ending in the final months of 2003. This is 2004 and RCA, PHILIPS, PANASONIC and others have jumped on the SAMSUNG DLP bandwagon to manufacture really nice, large, beautiful rear projection sets, all at under $3,999.
Essentially, every pixel on a DLP chip is a reflective mirror, which magnifies the light generated from the chip and as a result there is no limit to the size of the screen using DLP technology.
A DLP TV has a bright, high-contrast image comparable to a computer monitor perfect for Hi-Definition TV and viewable from a wide angle. All DLP TVs perform exceptionally well when displaying images from DVD media.
Have you seen the crowds of people standing around watching about a dozen of $3,400 screens 40, 50 and 60" in width at Fry's, Ultimate Electronics, and your local TV store, while the smaller $4,500 to $11,000 plasma and LCD screens sit on the wall almost totally neglected? Is the practical use of the technology behind Apple's current line of Cinema Displays becoming too expensive for an increase in size, and obsolete?
Apple will incorporate HD into our Macs and will make them HDTV signal aware. The reception, manipulation and projection of a high-definition image is all part of the evolving digital hub, if Apple wants to be part of the future. Input to our computer/TV monitors can come from broadcast, download, transfer, or pulled up from memory banks.
And, Uncle Steve, computers will be incorporated into Home Entertainment and Family Information Centers, because it doesn't make any difference where the iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, DVD movie, cable TV, satellite feed, DV file, or other digital image and sounds comes from, as long as it gets up there on that screen and to our ears so we can enjoy the experience.
But there is a catch to using DLP. Every year or 2 you have to buy a new BULB currently costing between $250 and $500. Regardless, and whether the image is projected to the front or from the rear, I believe I have seen a crystal clear image of the future, and the experience is a true epiphany. DLP may be the manifestation of HD images to come at a reasonable price to consumers. It is a clearer view through the looking glass as reflected on tiny dancing mirrors than we have been use to seeing.
Yep! I remember the advent of color TV viewed through poor quality round screens. Heavens, I remember the eve of black & white TV in the late 40's, and the excitement of watching other children sitting on bleacher benches in a Peanut Gallery, who were there to see and hear Howdy Doody, Clarabelle and Buffalo Bob in person. We could see those children and characters through "the tube" and we knew it was real. HDTV isn't just "real", it's fantastically surreal imagery almost beyond belief.
HDTV signal compared to DV on a computer is Huge!
FinalCut Pro4 messes with HD but doesn't really handle it too well on a Mac yet.
Until G5, AVID was almost ignoring G4 Macs in favor of high power Intel chip PCs for its top end editing suites. Now we got proprietary MoJo.
Storage of HD signal is a serious problem. Rendering and conversion times can be crippling and expensive to manage.
From another part of the Mac universe sprang the Big Mac supercomputer cluster using 1100 dual G5 Macs. Now Apple is helping Virginia Tech migrate from those G5 towers to much smaller and even more efficient G5 Xserves and Xserve TB RAIDS.
All this is making my Video Editing buddies salivate. They're thinking a small cluster of G5 Xserves combined with large Xserve RAIDS equals amazing real time rendering on a Mac at GB transfer speed.
Steve Jobs is intimately familiar with high end rendering as CEO of PIXAR.
The new G5 Macs have PCI-X slots and a huge capability in high bandwidth transfer of data over Ethernet and using fiber optics.
The Cinema Studio Displays are getting long in the tooth and there are constant rumblings about 30" monitors in G5 matching Aluminum frames, but nothing yet appears on the visable horizon except a bunch of multi-colored Mini-iPods. A distraction?
How is Apple going to deliver to us a display larger than 23" with high-contrast, high-resolution, bright vibrant color picture quality at a reasonable price so we can afford 1, or maybe 2 or 3 large 16:9 monitors to effectively and efficiently display and even wrap-around us with HDTV quality picture for high-end NLE in the next generation of FinalCut Pro?
If not a flat monitor, has Apple been experimenting with a front projector, or rear projection? Where could they find the picture quality for the next generation of computer monitor technology to usher in HDTV using a home computer? An HD Mac?
D L P - Digital Light Processing
Consider for a moment Texas Instrument's decade old technology of Digital Light Processing that Mitsubishi and Pioneer almost destroyed with an ugly and expensive first experiment. Along came Samsung and said let us give it a try. When Samsung was ready for production the picture was no longer ugly, the set no longer cost over $10 to $15 thousand dollars, it was beautiful and priced below $4,000. To production they did go on the strength of an EXCLUSIVE contract for several years ending in the final months of 2003. This is 2004 and RCA, PHILIPS, PANASONIC and others have jumped on the SAMSUNG DLP bandwagon to manufacture really nice, large, beautiful rear projection sets, all at under $3,999.
Essentially, every pixel on a DLP chip is a reflective mirror, which magnifies the light generated from the chip and as a result there is no limit to the size of the screen using DLP technology.
A DLP TV has a bright, high-contrast image comparable to a computer monitor perfect for Hi-Definition TV and viewable from a wide angle. All DLP TVs perform exceptionally well when displaying images from DVD media.
Have you seen the crowds of people standing around watching about a dozen of $3,400 screens 40, 50 and 60" in width at Fry's, Ultimate Electronics, and your local TV store, while the smaller $4,500 to $11,000 plasma and LCD screens sit on the wall almost totally neglected? Is the practical use of the technology behind Apple's current line of Cinema Displays becoming too expensive for an increase in size, and obsolete?
Apple will incorporate HD into our Macs and will make them HDTV signal aware. The reception, manipulation and projection of a high-definition image is all part of the evolving digital hub, if Apple wants to be part of the future. Input to our computer/TV monitors can come from broadcast, download, transfer, or pulled up from memory banks.
And, Uncle Steve, computers will be incorporated into Home Entertainment and Family Information Centers, because it doesn't make any difference where the iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, DVD movie, cable TV, satellite feed, DV file, or other digital image and sounds comes from, as long as it gets up there on that screen and to our ears so we can enjoy the experience.
But there is a catch to using DLP. Every year or 2 you have to buy a new BULB currently costing between $250 and $500. Regardless, and whether the image is projected to the front or from the rear, I believe I have seen a crystal clear image of the future, and the experience is a true epiphany. DLP may be the manifestation of HD images to come at a reasonable price to consumers. It is a clearer view through the looking glass as reflected on tiny dancing mirrors than we have been use to seeing.
Yep! I remember the advent of color TV viewed through poor quality round screens. Heavens, I remember the eve of black & white TV in the late 40's, and the excitement of watching other children sitting on bleacher benches in a Peanut Gallery, who were there to see and hear Howdy Doody, Clarabelle and Buffalo Bob in person. We could see those children and characters through "the tube" and we knew it was real. HDTV isn't just "real", it's fantastically surreal imagery almost beyond belief.
A VGA to ADC adaptor costs $400 on what planet!? The DVI to ADC Deviator from Dr Bott only costs $99. A VGA to DVI adaptor is an additional $35. But IMHO, running a digital high def screen off a blurry old low def analog display card is a stupid idea in the first place. Figures some junk vendor for the PC would come up with such a brain fart.
Last time I checked, a VGA connector does not carry a DVI signal, which is needed to drive Apple's LCDs. I don't even think a VGA to DVI adapter exists. What you mean is a DVI to VGA adapter, since the VGA signal is carried through a DVI connector.
hmmm...
I've been talking with John Dalgleish through e-mail about possibly writing a driver for a US (ATSC) HDTV card. He has expressed interest and needs a few "guinea pigs" to actually stick HD cards in our macs and test out the driver for him (he's from Australia). His web site
We've discussed the open-source HD-2000 Linux board, but that is a 5v card which won't work in the G5. The most appealing option to me is the Dvico Fusion HD card, since it is the cheapest at $150. (copperbox.com has them open box for $135)
In the current versions of iTele, he has gotten a full HDTV stream to play via software on a dual >1GHz G4 mac. He has expressed interest in using the GPU acceleration, but ATI and Apple are really tight-lip about it for no apparent reason.
Well, anyway... he'd like to go forward with writing a driver if he can gather a few testers. You'd need to have a decent mac with PCI slots, a PC with PCI slots, and of course the Dvico Fusion II HD card. Send me an e-mail (agill(at)cableone.net) if you are interested. If we get a few people with the right hardware, then John can get started
Hopefully Apple or ElGato doesn't come out with their own product in the mean time! Or.. hopefully they do.
I've been talking with John Dalgleish through e-mail about possibly writing a driver for a US (ATSC) HDTV card. He has expressed interest and needs a few "guinea pigs" to actually stick HD cards in our macs and test out the driver for him (he's from Australia). His web site
We've discussed the open-source HD-2000 Linux board, but that is a 5v card which won't work in the G5. The most appealing option to me is the Dvico Fusion HD card, since it is the cheapest at $150. (copperbox.com has them open box for $135)
In the current versions of iTele, he has gotten a full HDTV stream to play via software on a dual >1GHz G4 mac. He has expressed interest in using the GPU acceleration, but ATI and Apple are really tight-lip about it for no apparent reason.
Well, anyway... he'd like to go forward with writing a driver if he can gather a few testers. You'd need to have a decent mac with PCI slots, a PC with PCI slots, and of course the Dvico Fusion II HD card. Send me an e-mail (agill(at)cableone.net) if you are interested. If we get a few people with the right hardware, then John can get started
Hopefully Apple or ElGato doesn't come out with their own product in the mean time! Or.. hopefully they do.
HDTV would be sweet, but it would probably rank in a lot of $$$$$$ .. Im going to buy a 50inch plasma though, I like those.
.. Im going to buy a 50inch plasma though, I like those.
Plasma is a waste of money. Plasma screens suffer horribly from burn in. It only takes somewhere in the range of 1 - 3 years, depending on the quality of the display. If you watch a lot of 2.35:1 movies (not full 16:9), or 4:3 TV, you should avoid plasma like the plague.
Best quality picture is still a direct-view CRT, but they don't go above 34". If you need something bigger, rear-projection TVs are okay, but I'd go for DLP front projection + a good screen for ridiculous quality, brightness, and sizes as large as 110".
Me? I'm buying a 32" Samsung CRT off Amazon w/ the help of my roommates for next year.
--Cless
Best quality picture is still a direct-view CRT, but they don't go above 34". If you need something bigger, rear-projection TVs are okay, but I'd go for DLP front projection + a good screen for ridiculous quality, brightness, and sizes as large as 110".
Me? I'm buying a 32" Samsung CRT off Amazon w/ the help of my roommates for next year.
--Cless
DLP for large screen; CRT for 34" and below
a. Plasma - expensive waste of money, after only a few years, burn-in very likely.
b. LCD - small 17 - 20" getting reasonably priced, 23 - 30" and above, very expensive. Dead pixel problems, but getting better through improved manufacture. LG is larges manufacturer or LCD screens regardless of who puts their name on the outside box.
c. DLP by Texas Instruments used by Samsung, RCA, Philips, Panasonic and others, reasonably priced considering large size of projection (front or rear) beginning at 40" - 70" rear all the way to 110" front, ridiculously good quality, bright, beautiful color with excellent contrast ratio. Like looking out a window when used for HDTV. http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/default.asp
d. CRT TV classic with flat screen, ranges from 13" to 34", take your pick. Excellent picture in high-end sets. Most notable for quality 32" - 34" sets are Panasonic, JVC and recently RCA. Sony is good but has a commercialized (for consumers) shift in color, and has a poor reputation for using cheap power supplies and built-in obsolescence.
A. Front projection can be excellent and easily provides the largest screen size, along with portability - unless the larger ones (read- very expensive $14,000 - $30,000 projectors) are ceiling mounted. Other projectors can be hand-held and cost less than $1,000. Look for names like RUNCO, BenQ, InFocus, Sharp, Toshiba and Mitsubishi among more than 40 brands.
http://www.dlp.com/about_dlp/about_dlp_manufacturers_listing.asp
B. Rear projection provides the typical Large Screen TV box, with illumination projected by any of the above 4 types a through d. Besides the picture source itself (DLP, LCD, etc.) the kind and quality of the lenses (often 3, one for each color) glass or mere plastic. Mitsubishi, Toshiba, JVC, SONY and Pioneer have long been leaders, but now DLP has brought in amazing picture quality through Samsung, Philips, Panasonic and RCA.
C. Classic CRT TV.
If you are in the market for HDTV, I'd follow the Cless advice and look hard at DLP for large screen ($2,800 up) and CRT for 34" and smaller ($2,700 or less).
Compare:
Apple HD Cinema Display sports a 23-inch LCD (viewable) thin film transistor (TFT) active-matrix LCD that supports an astonishing 1920 by 1200 pixel resolution.
350:1 contrast ratio
Below:
Samsung's new 56-inch DLP Television - HLP5685 (no price listed, soon to be released)
Designed with the new HD2 Plus Texas Instrument DMD Chipset, the Samsung Proprietary Cinema Smooth Gen 4 Optic System with outstanding black levels that weigh in at
3,000:1 contrast ratio, a dramatic performance improvement. Functional enhancements include discreet IR code operation HDMI, DVI and PC inputs, plus 3 HD component inputs.
How would you like to Edit a DV movie using FinalCut Express on a 56-inch DLP HD monitor?
Cless, you have excellent taste.
a. Plasma - expensive waste of money, after only a few years, burn-in very likely.
b. LCD - small 17 - 20" getting reasonably priced, 23 - 30" and above, very expensive. Dead pixel problems, but getting better through improved manufacture. LG is larges manufacturer or LCD screens regardless of who puts their name on the outside box.
c. DLP by Texas Instruments used by Samsung, RCA, Philips, Panasonic and others, reasonably priced considering large size of projection (front or rear) beginning at 40" - 70" rear all the way to 110" front, ridiculously good quality, bright, beautiful color with excellent contrast ratio. Like looking out a window when used for HDTV. http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/default.asp
d. CRT TV classic with flat screen, ranges from 13" to 34", take your pick. Excellent picture in high-end sets. Most notable for quality 32" - 34" sets are Panasonic, JVC and recently RCA. Sony is good but has a commercialized (for consumers) shift in color, and has a poor reputation for using cheap power supplies and built-in obsolescence.
A. Front projection can be excellent and easily provides the largest screen size, along with portability - unless the larger ones (read- very expensive $14,000 - $30,000 projectors) are ceiling mounted. Other projectors can be hand-held and cost less than $1,000. Look for names like RUNCO, BenQ, InFocus, Sharp, Toshiba and Mitsubishi among more than 40 brands.
http://www.dlp.com/about_dlp/about_dlp_manufacturers_listing.asp
B. Rear projection provides the typical Large Screen TV box, with illumination projected by any of the above 4 types a through d. Besides the picture source itself (DLP, LCD, etc.) the kind and quality of the lenses (often 3, one for each color) glass or mere plastic. Mitsubishi, Toshiba, JVC, SONY and Pioneer have long been leaders, but now DLP has brought in amazing picture quality through Samsung, Philips, Panasonic and RCA.
C. Classic CRT TV.
If you are in the market for HDTV, I'd follow the Cless advice and look hard at DLP for large screen ($2,800 up) and CRT for 34" and smaller ($2,700 or less).
Compare:
Apple HD Cinema Display sports a 23-inch LCD (viewable) thin film transistor (TFT) active-matrix LCD that supports an astonishing 1920 by 1200 pixel resolution.
350:1 contrast ratio
Below:
Samsung's new 56-inch DLP Television - HLP5685 (no price listed, soon to be released)
Designed with the new HD2 Plus Texas Instrument DMD Chipset, the Samsung Proprietary Cinema Smooth Gen 4 Optic System with outstanding black levels that weigh in at
3,000:1 contrast ratio, a dramatic performance improvement. Functional enhancements include discreet IR code operation HDMI, DVI and PC inputs, plus 3 HD component inputs.
How would you like to Edit a DV movie using FinalCut Express on a 56-inch DLP HD monitor?
Attachments
I read that a HLP5685 is still 720p, which in my case wouldn't meet my primary requirements as a PC Monitor. Even 1080 would be less than the 23" Cinema's 1200. You've got me curious enough, though, to check out DLP next time I'm at Ultimate Electronics.
For what i would want, the Divco Fusion card looks interesting, if it can be adapted to a Mac. I also saw a recent rumor of Apple doing something new with video by July or August.
For what i would want, the Divco Fusion card looks interesting, if it can be adapted to a Mac. I also saw a recent rumor of Apple doing something new with video by July or August.
That Samsung DLP set looks killer. Speaking of Star Trek it looks like it would be right at home on the bridge of the enterprise. Count me in on DLP. The rear projection sets look much better than LCD, weigh a fraction and have no convergence issues like RP tube sets and are only lacking Plasmas ease of placement but that is negligible. I think within a couple of years we'll be able to purchase the above mentioned set and work at the same rez as the current 23" HD cinema display. Fun times if you're a video editor.
Resolution and price range are two things that I could not initially find on this Samsung DLP, until now.
Samsung's resolution of 1,280 x 720 doesn't even match a 1280 x 1024-pixel 17-inch Apple Studio Display; and the
$5,000 price tag is a bit steep, even for a
Contrast ratio as high as 3,000:1
Let's keep looking, prices have to come down and quality will most certainly be going up. But I just love Samsung's pedestal style and 13" depth for this rear projection model and the gorgeous color picture, which blows away LCD and plasma.
Attachments
I have a front projection Sharp DLP, it's 10 years, still has the original bulb. It does have some red spots, which a technician says indicates degredation of the bulb. The main problem with this type of system is that it needs a darkend room. Is the rear projection better?
HDTV is the next "killer app" of the digital hub...I cannot believe Jobs does not see it. If the popularity of Tivo and DVR's is not proof enough, combine this with everyone using PC's and Mac's as DVR's currently. Integrating the TV (with HD capability) with a Mac GUI and expected ease of use, would launch them directly into the spotlight of the home entertainment system just like the iPod did to portable audio. I see an average of 50+ iPods a day on the Chicago el train (red/brown lines). Apple needs to be the pioneer into this field and gain as significant of a lead as possible to shield them from the guarenteed competition they'll face. My computer run's everything in my apartment, including my TV (ghetto-rigged), why doesn't Apple make my experience a little more pleasurable? I want to give them the money, they just won't take it.
RazorWriter said:
Here is a translation from babelfish:
======================
Apple the HDTV high picture prime number position regards the news solution symposium
Date
Time
Place
200.4/5/28 million ~ 200.4/5/28 million
13:30 ~ 17:00
Taibei Asian and Pacific clubhouse big view hall B area
Active object:
Dissemination industry
Participation expense:
Free
Subject
Apple the HDTV high picture prime number position regards the news solution symposium
Active content
Dear dissemination advanced:
Along with this January 1 European first Gao Huachih the television (High Definition Television, HDTV) serves officially begins broadcasting, believed everybody has all felt to several revolutions is like a raging fire launches in the world, future along with Gao Huachih the television popularization, large will promote the people when will watch the image the vision to enjoy. In the future, no matter will be the music, the sports, the performance, the cultural activity perhaps the documentary film, all will penetrate HDTV with to present by the highest quality transmission.
Since continuously, Apple all has provided the field best potency video and music of equipment and the software with the good quality, in the often new product publication always can newly let the person informer one, startled be colorful for it. This will, in view of Gao Huachih the video and music dissemination demand, what type Apple give you the solution?
Please attends our symposium! At the meeting, we besides for you introduced the HDTV equipment, will share Power Mac - G5 by the Apple video and music system conformity partner tripod with two handles front computer with each position the HDTV non-linear editing solution, will tell you by the actual equipment and the picture, how will utilize Apple Final Cut Pro HD, will help you the video and music market to pull out the first prize in Gao Huachih in, to snatch takes the initiative!
The seat is limited, please as soon as possible registers! !
Sponsor unit: Gathers the large science and technology limited liability company
Does jointly the unit: The Apple computer/tripod with two handles front computer limited company/newly records the limited liability company
Agenda:
1:30~2:00 registration
2:00~3:00 HDTV specification introduction
HDTV regards the news equipment introduction
Power of Mac - G5 tripod with two handles front computer system conformity plan HDTV non-linear film editing introduction
Apple Xserve RAID 3.5TB supervelocity, ultra large capacity magnetism small dish array introduction
3:00~3:10 the ~~~ middle place rest, visits the equipment to demonstrate ~~~
3:10~4:10 Apple Computer Final Cut Pro HD, Shake 3.5, Motion product introduction and demonstration
4:10~4:30 several contents management
4:30~4:45 exchange and discussion
====================
So it looks like there is nothing new from this page. Sorry
. Maybe something will crop up soon?By the way, the language is Chinese Traditional, according to my girlfriend. Here is a link to the translated page.
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please tell me you can get a TV PCI card, just a standard TV card for now, that fits a mac.........
please tell me you can get a TV PCI card, just a standard TV card for now, that fits a mac.........
I've seen some discussions from Linux users on this issue. They had newer boards that they didn't think it would work with, but it did. The spec's on the pchdtv.com site may be incorrect.Adobe75 said:
That's really unfortunate, since it is a standard API under Windows (DxVA), and the linux API (XvMC) is becoming more popular with beta support in xine, vlc, and other apps (of course, that's only supported by Nvidia, ATI has not supported Linux XvMC).Adobe75 said:
With the FusionHDTV software, you need a fast P4 to do full quality software processing (probably ~ 3GHz), but with DxVA it can be done on an 800MHz P3. To do any sort of multitasking or PVR functionality, I would say that MPEG2 acceleration is pretty much a requirement.
Apple is really missing the boat here, since most of their machines for the last 5 years have had support for MPEG2 acceleration. The only exceptions are some of the Nvidia cards. (Only the GeForce4 MX, FX line, and newer cards have full DxVA).
I have a couple Fusion cards, but unfortunately my Macs can't use them ( Cube and PowerBook).Adobe75 said:Well, anyway... he'd like to go forward with writing a driver if he can gather a few testers. You'd need to have a decent mac with PCI slots, a PC with PCI slots, and of course the Dvico Fusion II HD card. Send me an e-mail (agill(at)cableone.net) if you are interested. If we get a few people with the right hardware, then John can get started
Hopefully Apple or ElGato doesn't come out with their own product in the mean time! Or.. hopefully they do.
Given Apple's fairly tight relationship with ATI, the soon to be released HDTV Wonder ( http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/ati_hdtv_wonder.shtml ) might be a better option. It is supposed to be released very soon, and is reported to cost ~ US$100.