Apple Holds Meeting With Retail Staff to Discuss Recent Unionization Activities

[NY Guitarist]

The personal anecdotes, sweeping generalizations, hyperbolic rhetoric, slippery slope reductionism, and corporate propaganda extolling the virtues of illiberal capitalism is mind-blowing.

 

[PrecisionGem]

The only thing that would make dealing with customers bearable is if employees can fight a customer once a week without reprocussions. 99.44% of the time, dealing with customers is bearable, maybe even pleasant. But there is always that .66% of the time a Karen makes unreasonable demands.

"Oh hail, no lady. The correct quote is 'The customers is always right in matter of taste.' Otherwise people will start demanding iPhones for a buck and expect to get their way, because 🙃'Customer is always right.'🙃"

Yes, I have the misfortune of having only worked in America with our crappy labor laws.

I've experienced both hard work pays off and hard work only earns more hard work. Back when I was a repair tech. Average turn around time for a repair was 2-3 days, while my average was 1-2 days. My lazy, Dilbert's Boss-type boss sat on his (_!_) all day and collected a big bonus thanks to my hard work. Lazy boss fired one of the tech, so I had even more work. Busted my butt and got a whopping $1 an hour raise. After that, all my turn around was 2-3 days as well (1 day to fix and another day or 2 of it just sitting on my shelf. If I finish all the repairs on my ticket list, I still have to sit around with my thumb up my (_!_) because, just because.😣

Now I'm a bean counter and am compensated fairly for my expertise. If I finish my work early, I can leave early. That motivates me to do 8 hours of work in 3-4 hours. It's almost European, my current work/life balance.

You can read all about workers who have had it up to their ears at being exploited in Reedit. There was an /anti-work one a while back.

Why not start you own business?

I think today, working conditions are better than they have ever been in America, yet todays youth complain more than any other generation. Basically they want to make 6 figures, work less than 35 hours per week, play with their phones most of day while at work, and have 6 or more weeks vacation.

 

[Mitochris]

This is a lot of BS. I worked for a large multinational company, and spent a lot of time at the company sites in France with coworkers who had essentially the same job I had in the US. THey would pick me up to go out to dinner in a tiny 10 year old car, then when I saw their apartment that I could fit into my living room at home, I was pretty clear that in-spite of their socialized health car, my standard of living was much higher.
There was less motivation at work for them to excel, as excel didn’t really bring you anything.

Taxes and social security costs etc vary within Europe, but what you are confusing is your income and deductible costs. Highly skilled workers will get a a higher salary to start off with in the US versus Europe. Independent of what ends up in your bank account. Salaries tend to be more equal in Europe across a business in comparison to the us.
Space for living has always been limited in Europe, due to its history. Cities might be a thousand years old and grew slowly, limiting space. I am sure apartments in NY are no bigger for the average worker than in Europe. And using the French as an example for motivation to work is an easy target ;-), and a bit anecdotal.

 

[ericwn]

If the US is such a horrid place then why are millions per year sneaking across the boarder ILLEGALLY to live here?

Because it’s the closest second world country to get to if you’re moving north from a third world one, and Canada might be too far for you.

 

[Philip_S]

Maybe because some of us want to prevent outsourcing more cheap labor to countries with fewer worker protections and/or further price markups?

A solution to that would be to apply the same penalties to importers of goods or services not produced in accordance with labour, environmental, etc. laws applicable in the destination country (modulo different dates for public holidays or swapping them for extra annual leave, etc.) as they would if they did the same thing there.

Essentially what it comes down to is folks have retail jobs and they want a level of pay, usually relegated to jobs that require more education, that will allow them to have that one job and pay all their bills. In some areas, with the real estate market and cost of living as it is, $45/hr wouldn’t be completely out of bounds.

Wouldn't it be more efficient all round if each worker was only doing one job rather than having three workers each doing three jobs, with all the extra commuting, uniforms, scheduling headaches, and so on? That would mean fixing America's crazy rules about workers' entitlements (either to make them pro-rata for part-time workers, or to apply them to all but the shortest-term temporary workers, plus steep mandatory overtime entitlements so employers don't go to the opposite extreme)

There’s not an ocean of difference between where they want to be the (living wage) and $45 an hour in some parts of the country. Or are you saying that retail employees don’t deserve $45 an hour?

If $45/hr is what it takes to live what society considers the minimum acceptable lifestyle in an area, then that money can only come from the employer or taxes, or the worker won't live that minimal acceptable lifestyle. I for one would much rather we had a high minimum wage but no in-work benefits than continue to subsidise low-wage employers at the expense of high-wage employers (which are generally more mobile than any low-wage work that's still in a developed country) or the middle class.

 

[A Hobo]

If the US is such a horrid place then why are millions per year sneaking across the boarder ILLEGALLY to live here?

Those two things are hardly mutually exclusive. Just ‘cause people still want to leave their worse backgrounds doesn’t mean USA is a utopia. In fact a large portion of those folk entering the USA are trying to get to Canada long term. You’re sometimes just a stepping stone 🤷‍♂️

 

[PrecisionGem]

Those two things are hardly mutually exclusive. Just ‘cause people still want to leave their worse backgrounds doesn’t mean USA is a utopia. In fact a large portion of those folk entering the USA are trying to get to Canada long term. You’re sometimes just a stepping stone 🤷‍♂️

Many are coming from countries not even in the western hemisphere. So why pick the US? Can you suggest a place they should go. To enter Canada from the US they would need to show double vaccination. You can enter the US from the southern boarder with no vaccination. Tennis players arrive by other means need vaccination.
You said a large portion are going to Canada. Of the over 2 million that illegally crossed over so far this year, how many went to Canada?

 

[avz]

If the US is such a horrid place then why are millions per year sneaking across the boarder ILLEGALLY to live here?

People always go closer to the money emission center, nothing personal, there is no need to try and romanticize things. If you think that people who come to US are getting something for "free" you are mistaken and don't understand how central banking system works.

 

[A Hobo]

Many are coming from countries not even in the western hemisphere. So why pick the US? Can you suggest a place they should go. To enter Canada from the US they would need to show double vaccination. You can enter the US from the southern boarder with no vaccination. Tennis players arrive by other means need vaccination.
You said a large portion are going to Canada. Of the over 2 million that illegally crossed over so far this year, how many went to Canada?

If we are talking illegals then I’m not sure why you’re now talking about vaccinations as that’s obviously a conversation about legal immigration.. a conversation we aren’t having by way of your first comment I replied to.

maybe you just needed to pad your character limit, or maybe you’re trying to blur topics and move some goalposts around.

 

[A Hobo]

People always go closer to the money emission center, nothing personal, there is no need to try and romanticize things. If you think that people who come to US are getting something for "free" you are mistaken and don't understand how central banking system works.

The USA doesn’t even really look after it’s own population in any meaningful way, and yet the illegals are coming in to steal: well I’m not sure what exactly. They live a hard life, as do most people walking earth today.

Shrodingers xenophobia.

 

[PrecisionGem]

If we are talking illegals then I’m not sure why you’re now talking about vaccinations as that’s obviously a conversation about legal immigration.. a conversation we aren’t having by way of your first comment I replied to.

maybe you just needed to pad your character limit, or maybe you’re trying to blur topics and move some goalposts around.

You said "a large portion of those folk entering the US are trying to get to Canada long term". Referring to those entering the US illegally through the southern boarder.
So I asked 2 things.
1. How are they traveling from the US into Canada if they are not vaccinated?
2. How many entering the US from the souther boarder, are then passing through to stay in Canada long term?

 

[avz]

The USA doesn’t even really look after it’s own population in any meaningful way, and yet the illegals are coming in to steal: well I’m not sure what exactly. They live a hard life, as do most people walking earth today.

Shrodingers xenophobia.

Yes. The biggest problem is when people are making decisions they usually base them on a picture in their heads from 10-20 years ago. Needless to say that this can only lead to a catastrophic results for everybody involved. Nothing is more important than keeping up with the times and understand where the wind is blowing.

 

[I7guy]

The personal anecdotes, sweeping generalizations, hyperbolic rhetoric, slippery slope reductionism, and corporate propaganda extolling the virtues of illiberal capitalism is mind-blowing.

Ah yes. The cornerstones of every great MacRumors debate.

 

[brofkand]

Unions are basically PACs today. They’re worthless.

 

[InuNacho]

I don’t understand non skilled laborers unionizing. Retail is a high turnover profession which mostly requires new skills. The solution is mostly firing employees making pointless demands.

In grad school there was a union push because the grads with degrees in lame stuff were jealous of the grad students who got paid more money in the sciences. But it was wacky because the money grad students get paid doesn’t come from a magic university bucket it comes from the funding of their sponsoring faculty. Anyway…it got voted down because the science students figured out that it was all non science majors just wanting to steal their lunch money.

On the other side my brother in law is a skilled craftsman and his union has been good to him.

I like your comparison! If I was your boss I could fire you with your fancy Masters degree for making pointless demands. I'm sure someone in India will replace you nicely.

 

[BaldiMac]

Unions are basically PACs today. They’re worthless.

Businesses do a whole lot more lobbying than unions. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[brofkand]

Businesses do a whole lot more lobbying than unions. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I’m all for people choosing to join a union if they want to. I disagree with being required to join a union as a condition of employment.

 

[enc0re]

I’m all for people choosing to join a union if they want to. I disagree with being required to join a union as a condition of employment.

Come live in the USA! Here, having to join a union as a condition of employment has been illegal nationwide since 1947 under the Taft-Hartley Act.