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mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,626
2,540
Yes on the first sale to consumer. This we agree. But it makes total sense if you recognize that the apple AppStore is tangible separated from the iOS device consumers use.

Not at all, this must also include IAP by third party solutions that developers chose to use instead of apples IAP solution. Now if consumers use apples IAP button then apple obviously get a cut of that specific sale.
No it wont include IAP by third party as those apps still come from the App Store.

Those apps will get a discount to account for a third party doing the payment processing. Apple are still listing the app on the App Store.

Only apps acquired outside of the apple App Store will be exempt from Apples commission.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
Scandinavia
No it wont include IAP by third party as those apps still come from the App Store.

Those apps will get a discount to account for a third party doing the payment processing. Apple are still listing the app on the App Store.

Only apps acquired outside of the apple App Store will be exempt from Apples commission.
An app being listed doesn’t translate to taking a cut on sale inside the store and then continue. Outside the store. We don’t do this for anything else and it will be prohibited by Eu
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,311
24,047
Gotta be in it to win it
Yes on the first sale to consumer. This we agree. But it makes total sense if you recognize that the apple AppStore is tangible separated from the iOS device consumers use.

Not at all, this must also include IAP by third party solutions that developers chose to use instead of apples IAP solution. Now if consumers use apples IAP button then apple obviously get a cut of that specific sale.
Yes. Apple will get a cut of IAP, whether it’s through apple or a 3rd party.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,626
2,540
It’s might be anti competitive tho.
Especially if only their option exist artificially constrained
Good job it isn't the only option to sell their wares then, since developers can write apps for numerous different platforms. Just like how someone selling a product doesn't have to sell it in Tesco if they can't agree terms but can still sell it is Sainsbury's, Asda and Morrisons if they can agree terms. Yes you won't gain access to as many customers, but that's how it works.
 
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BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Malls require percentages of sales, and I can guarantee you 0% of malls require a commission on any reoccurring revenue apple or Samsung or AT&T etc makes outside the mall or revenue consumers regularly spend on said devices for iCloud or App Store games and data purchases etc even tho it’s because of them the customers even exist.
You're moving goalposts. You asked a question. I provided an example.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
Scandinavia
Yes. Apple will get a cut of IAP, whether it’s through apple or a 3rd party.
unlikely.
Good job it isn't the only option to sell their wares then, since developers can write apps for numerous different platforms. Just like how someone selling a product doesn't have to sell it in Tesco if they can't agree terms but can still sell it is Sainsbury's, Asda and Morrisons if they can agree terms. Yes you won't gain access to as many customers, but that's how it works.
doesn't matter when it comes to anti competitive behavior, apple have a large part of the market as a duopoly. this means apple will be limited in how they can write contracts or limit suppliers such as anti steering clauses
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
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It’s my opinion. Things dont always work out the way people think…see the epic vs apple trial for a great example.
Do you have an educated foundation for your opinion? Epic vs apple already have case laws to draw conclusions in apple’s favor. But this doesn’t help in European court of justice.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
unlikely.

doesn't matter when it comes to anti competitive behavior, apple have a large part of the market as a duopoly. this means apple will be limited in how they can write contracts or limit suppliers such as anti steering clauses
Apple has around a third of the European market. Hard to argue market power with that low a percentage.

Despite the fact that this forum and the US as a whole are more Apple-focused. The real argument for monopoly power and anti-competitive actions should be directed at Google, not Apple. They're the ones with the dominant market position. They're the ones that have used they're market power to all but eliminate competition from other app stores.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
Scandinavia
Apple has around a third of the European market. Hard to argue market power with that low a percentage.

Despite the fact that this forum and the US as a whole are more Apple-focused. The real argument for monopoly power and anti-competitive actions should be directed at Google, not Apple. They're the ones with the dominant market position. They're the ones that have used they're market power to all but eliminate competition from other app stores.
a position of economic strength enjoyed by an undertaking which enables it to prevent effective competition being maintained on the relevant market by giving it the power to behave to an appreciable extent independently of its competitors, customers and ultimately of its consumers'

this is Eus view on market power.
And EU is investigating google as well and have legislation that targets them as well.
under new Eu regulation Apple and Google will be classified as gatekeepers
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,311
24,047
Gotta be in it to win it
a position of economic strength enjoyed by an undertaking which enables it to prevent effective competition being maintained on the relevant market by giving it the power to behave to an appreciable extent independently of its competitors, customers and ultimately of its consumers'

this is Eus view on market power.
And EU is investigating google as well and have legislation that targets them as well.
under new Eu regulation Apple and Google will be classified as gatekeepers
The EU is heading In the direction of a second class technical citizen. What company is going to want to invest and innovate under much of this legislation.
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
Scandinavia
The EU is heading In the direction of a second class technical citizen. What company is going to want to invest and innovate under much of this legislation.
Anyone who wants access to 400 million consumers. And even Microsoft welcomes these laws.

Facebook Threatens to Pull Out of Europe, Europe Says "Please Do"​


People have argued the same when child labor was banned. When unions was protected. When mandatory payed vacation, mandatory consent to collect data, mandated 2 year warranty, mandated quality standards and millions of other pro consumer and worker laws. This will be the same. And US is moving in the same direction it seems but with harder laws if they mandate side loading.
 
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BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
a position of economic strength enjoyed by an undertaking which enables it to prevent effective competition being maintained on the relevant market by giving it the power to behave to an appreciable extent independently of its competitors, customers and ultimately of its consumers'

this is Eus view on market power.
And EU is investigating google as well and have legislation that targets them as well.
under new Eu regulation Apple and Google will be classified as gatekeepers
Fair enough. But, as I said, Google meets that definition far, far more than Apple. They control 65% of the market and actively discouraged other app stores across various Android OSs. Even those it doesn't control.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
Scandinavia
Fair enough. But, as I said, Google meets that definition far, far more than Apple. They control 65% of the market and actively discouraged other app stores across various Android OSs. Even those it doesn't control.
Well google is included in the anti trust investigation. Especially for forcing manufacturers to include google services and bundle other applications.

So both can be guilty at the same time for different crimes committed with the same abusive position
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Well google is included in the anti trust investigation. Especially for forcing manufacturers to include google services and bundle other applications.

So both can be guilty at the same time for different crimes committed with the same abusive position
But, again, they don't have the same abusive position. They're in very different positions. Ignoring the difference is disingenuous. Having 65% of the market and forcing other manufacturers to support your store is far, far different than having 35% of the market and only controlling your own devices.
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
Scandinavia
But, again, they don't have the same abusive position. They're in very different positions. Ignoring the difference is disingenuous. Having 65% of the market and forcing other manufacturers to support your store is far, far different than having 35% of the market and only controlling your own devices.
That is also why they are judged by different standards. Anti competitive is still anticompetitive when you have two options instead of 10
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
That is also why they are judged by different standards. Anti competitive is still anticompetitive when you have two options instead of 10
Okay...? Different standards? Two options instead of 10? I'm not sure what you are getting at here.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68020
May 2, 2021
2,433
2,271
Scandinavia
Okay...? Different standards? Two options instead of 10? I'm not sure what you are getting at here.
Not different standards, but they are breaking different rules. Apple don’t allow side loading or third party payments.
Google allow side loading.

For example all the things google have broken is things apple haven’t done

And yes a duopoly is very different when it comes to market power compared to 10 different options dividing the market power.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Not different standards, but they are breaking different rules. Apple don’t allow side loading or third party payments.
Google allow side loading.
Breaking rules? There is no rule that requires allowing sideloading. Again, this comes down to antitrust law. Not just things that you feel are unfair.

For example all the things google have broken is things apple haven’t done

And yes a duopoly is very different when it comes to market power compared to 10 different options dividing the market power.
Sure, but the main reason there a duopoly is that Google has forced other companies to include Google Play. That's not Apple's fault.
 

UBS28

macrumors 68030
Oct 2, 2012
2,893
2,340
Breaking rules? There is no rule that requires allowing sideloading. Again, this comes down to antitrust law. Not just things that you feel are unfair.


Sure, but the main reason there a duopoly is that Google has forced other companies to include Google Play. That's not Apple's fault.

There is no duopoly. There are other platforms besides Android and iOS.

You can use Tinder also on PC, Linux and MAC.
 
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