Apple Releases Statement on Customer Privacy and Law Enforcement Requests for Customer Data

[Ralf The Dog]

I have. There are lots of things in my life that are none of their business. What a boring life you must lead.

Dude, one of the chimps had a hidden camera. I have been to Youtube. Trust me, you don't have any secrets.


***

One cool trick. encrypt four or five files. The first file has stuff you don't care about. Use a burner key for that one. Encrypt a few random files, with a key you throw away, so you can't decrypt them, even if you want. Next encrypt the files you want to protect, with your main key. Zip them all up, then encrypt one more time.

Even if they torture you, your files are safe. You can't give away the random files, so you know, they will keep the torture up, even if you give them everything you know. This works even better, if you post on a public forum (like Mac Rumors), that you do it.

 

[Adokimus]

Image

Believe it or not.. you are not that interesting nor that important for Apple or any government agency to really "care" about where you go grocery shopping, how long it takes you to poop or who you're cheating on your wife with.

Way to rebrand the classic, "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about." That's not my vision of America, that's not my idea of privacy nor freedom. I am astounded that it's yours. And you may think they don't care about who you're cheating on your wife with until you try to do something important; something that goes against their political power structure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Surveillance_and_wiretapping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allegations_of_adultery

Pick up a history book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...#The_text

 

[SandboxGeneral]

For those interested in how PGP and cryptograpghy works, here is a series on it from the podcast Security Now done in 2006. These are the MP3 audio files linked.

Page URL: https://www.grc.com/sn/past/2006.htm

• Episode 30: Cryptographic Issues
• Episode 31: Symmetric Stream Ciphers
• Episode 32: Listener Feedback Q&A #5
• Episode 33: Symmetric Block Ciphers
• Episode 34: Public Key Cryptography
• Episode 35: Cryptographic Hashes
• Episode 36: Listener Feedback Q&A #6
• Episode 37: Crypto Series Wrap-up

It's been a while since I've listened to these and I may do so again for a refresher. It's very interesting and detailed information on this subject.

 

[TylerL]

What I noticed is that they say they have their "legal team" review each request. Which is nice. However, did anyone else notice they didn't even state one time they required a warrant for the information?

They don't say "warrant", but they DO say "court order". How do they differ? (seriously. i'm not a lawyer and have no idea)
Seems like they don't throw information at any G-Man that asks, but only when required, either by warrant, subpoena, or other order from a judicial court.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

That's what is at the heart of the debate over digital communications and security. Is it lawful to force someone to decrypt their secured information, regardless of whether the contents therein are illegal or incriminating or not - at least in the United States under the Constitution?

On the one hand we have the issue of personal privacy and the right to be secure and on the other hand national security and crime prevention.

Where is the balance and where do we draw the line?

The Supreme Court has ruled, the Fourth Amendment only applies to nice people. If law enforcement is looking at your stuff, you must be a naughty person, so, no Constitutional protections for you!

 

[crackbookpro]

Google has been pro-active on this issue for years, and they have actually gone to court to fight warrants, and they have also been one of only three companies to challenge the National Security Letter provision of the PATRIOT Act. They have been publishing a ton of information about government requests through their transparency report for years.

Apple hasn't been pro-active at all. They've never talked about the number of warrants and government requests they've gotten until now, and the only reason they released the number is because of the PRISM story coming out.

That is to say, Apple hasn't been proactive on this issue. Google is about the only company that really has.

----------



Yes, iCloud Keychain is encrypted and cannot be read by Apple.

iWork docs may or may not be, Apple hasn't stated either way.

SpaceHog... do you know how Google AdWords actually works? If you did/do, you may want to understand the underlying concepts & how the data does what it does to create the Google AdWords for you.

If you think Google is proactive on User Privacy, and good at it, even though that is extremely subjective - realize how the Android OS works as well as Google AdWords with User Information.

 

[bushido]

lol as if Apple is allowed to release any information unless they want to get in trouble with the gov. this statement is useless

 

[Ralf The Dog]

SpaceHog... do you know how Google AdWords actually works? If you did/do, you may want to understand the underlying concepts & how the data does what it does to create the Google AdWords for you.

If you think Google is proactive on User Privacy, and good at it, even though that is extremely subjective - realize how the Android OS works as well as Google AdWords with User Information.

The nice thing about Google is, you know from the start, they record everything you say, do or think. Better to know you have no privacy than to think, you do.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Of course, the vast majority of people have nothing to hide, as they aren't doing anything particularity interesting, nor illegal.

that is irrelevant. US citizens are entitled to and guaranteed our privacy, regardless of whether we "have anything to hide". patriots demand this privacy be upheld because it's the basis of our freedom and our nation.

 

[i.mac]

And this is why I'll never use the cloud, nor FB, nor upload sensitive data that is unencrypted. Once it's on the 'net, anyone can get it.

TRUST NO ONE!

Wait, you're here, on the net... Now every one can track you...

 

[spacehog371]

SpaceHog... do you know how Google AdWords actually works? If you did/do, you may want to understand the underlying concepts & how the data does what it does to create the Google AdWords for you.

Yes, I know how Google adwords works. What does that have to do with government requests for access to customer content?

If you think Google is proactive on User Privacy, and good at it, even though that is extremely subjective - realize how the Android OS works as well as Google AdWords with User Information.

Again, I have no idea what your point is. What does how Google uses your data have to do with Google complying with government requests for your data?

And, it isn't subjective. Google has had its transparency report out for years.

Their court battles are documented, and they are literally one of only three companies to ever challenge NSL's.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/04/google-fights-nsl/

Right now, the justice department is suing them because they are refusing to comply with an NSL.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/03/national-security-letters-may-be-unconst

There is no other company that has a track record like Google when it comes to fighting for users over government court orders and requests.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Believe it or not.. you are not that interesting nor that important for Apple or any government agency to really "care" about where you go grocery shopping, how long it takes you to poop or who you're cheating on your wife with.

that is irrelevant. US citizens are entitled to and guaranteed certain inalienable rights, like privacy from the government spying on them, no matter how mundane the content.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

that is irrelevant. US citizens are entitled to and guaranteed our privacy, regardless of whether we "have anything to hide". patriots demand this privacy be upheld because it's the basis of our freedom and our nation.

That said, even without the NSA, privacy is dead. Forget government cameras, private cameras are everywhere. You can hide a camera in anything. That clock your ex wife gave you for your birthday, the one you have above the fireplace, ever wondered why it connects to your WiFi?

The long term solution is to know, everyone who wants to know what you do and when you do it, knows.

 

[crackbookpro]

Yes, I know how Google adwords works. What does that have to do with government requests for access to customer content?



Again, I have no idea what your point is. What does how Google uses your data have to do with Google complying with government requests for your data?

And, it isn't subjective. Google has had its transparency report out for years.

Their court battles are documented, and they are literally one of only three companies to ever challenge NSL's.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/04/google-fights-nsl/

Right now, the justice department is suing them because they are refusing to comply with an NSL.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/03/national-security-letters-may-be-unconst

There is no other company that has a track record like Google when it comes to fighting for users over government court orders and requests.

How they use it???... has absolutely everything do with it. SpaceHog - Find out HOW things got to how they are, and DONT always believe the hype.

If you did know HOW Google actually operates & HOW they use their data for most of the profits & services they market... then I truly believe you would not be believing the hype that Google's PR department puts out.

I will have this talk with you again one day... just please understand a little more on the subject - you are only believing the hype that Google puts out in my opinion thus far.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

The reason they are fighting it, Google charges good money for that information. The NSA wants it for free.

Yes, I know how Google adwords works. What does that have to do with government requests for access to customer content?



Again, I have no idea what your point is. What does how Google uses your data have to do with Google complying with government requests for your data?

And, it isn't subjective. Google has had its transparency report out for years.

Their court battles are documented, and they are literally one of only three companies to ever challenge NSL's.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/04/google-fights-nsl/

Right now, the justice department is suing them because they are refusing to comply with an NSL.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/03/national-security-letters-may-be-unconst

There is no other company that has a track record like Google when it comes to fighting for users over government court orders and requests.

 

[spacehog371]

How they use it???... has absolutely everything do with it.

No, it doesn't.

This discussion is about Google giving user's information to the government... under what circumstances they give that information, whether they require a court order, and how many times they have complied with such orders.

How Google uses your data for adwords and the like has nothing to do with this discussion... at all. Google using your data is not the government having access to your data.

Learn the difference, and stop talking out of your ass.

----------

Google charges good money for that information. The NSA wants it for free.

No, they don't. You can't charge the government to comply with a warrant.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

That's what is at the heart of the debate over digital communications and security. Is it lawful to force someone to decrypt their secured information, regardless of whether the contents therein are illegal or incriminating or not - at least in the United States under the Constitution?

On the one hand we have the issue of personal privacy and the right to be secure and on the other hand national security and crime prevention.

Where is the balance and where do we draw the line?

Is there a balance to be had? It seems to me that they either have the right or they don't.

My girlfriend's mother was telling me about how she thinks the government should be allowed to collect all this information. I told her, "so should they go through all your mail, too? Because that's what this is." and that's when it started clicking with her.

People shouldn't be outraged about Facebook and other social networks - we share all that stuff knowing that we're presenting it for the world to see. They should be outraged that the government is doing everything they can to intrude into your more personal and direct communications - email and text messages.

 

[crackbookpro]

No, it doesn't.

This discussion is about Google giving user's information to the government... under what circumstances they give that information, whether they require a court order, and how many times they have complied with such orders.

How Google uses your data for adwords and the like has nothing to do with this discussion... at all. Google using your data is not the government having access to your data.

Learn the difference, and stop talking out of your ass.

----------



No, they don't. You can't charge the government to comply with a warrant.

SpaceHog, in a couple years(maybe even months). Reread your post.

For now, have a good day sir.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

Is there a balance to be had? It seems to me that they either have the right or they don't.

Personally, I am odds with this in my own mind. I don't know where I would draw the line because I agree that we should have the right to privacy without government intrusion, but at the same time, that government intrusion can be helpful in guarding national security. The same protections offered to Americans under the Constitution protect the good guys as well as the bad guys.

It's like the atomic bomb. Just because it could be made does that mean it should have? Just because the government has the ability to snoop digital communications, should they? Should they do so to protect the nation or should they not in order to preserve privacy of the citizenry and consequently leave avenues for the bad guys to use in order to attack the citizenry?

I don't proclaim to have the answer, nor a concrete opinion of my own.

 

[spacehog371]

Is there a balance to be had? It seems to me that they either have the right or they don't.

They don't. You can't force access into someone's mind.

Not only that, but people forget passwords all the time. If the government can order you to decrypt a hard drive, and you have forgotten the password, you could be held in contempt for withholding information you really do not know. There is no way for the government to prove that you still remember the password, and in most cases there isn't a way for the government to even prove that you are the owner of the drive, or the one that encrypted it.

 

[mabhatter]

Hey wait, what about my FileVault password that I let Apple store... in case I forget.. does the NSA get that? I guess I'm creating a new FileVault and not giving Apple access to "hold" it for me.

Bryan

I was waiting for somebody to heckle Tgat one at the keynote when they were showing off how iCloud can remember passwords (*and save them for the authorities, coming soon)

In some ways what the NSA is doing is more cloak and dagger... They are spies after all. My opinion is that the NSA has these companies tapped right at the telco. So while they cannot get encrypted streams, they are wholesale data mining what customers do with Apple. Which honestly isn't that much for Apple. I suppose the NSA has cracked iCloud and photo streams to read your documents, but they can do that via the web interface if they want. Apple got rid of iWeb and other publishing tools... The store is not interesting to the NSA as its all "approved" materials.

The problem isn't really the NSA anyway... Their job has ALWAYS been ILLEGAL. Their job Was to catch spies and terrorists... and disclosing petty crimes was illegal For them to admit they were spying at all. That's why prior to the Patriot Act the NSA, and anything they touched, wasn't allowed in civilian court.

 

[whoknows87]

Believe it or not.. you are not that interesting nor that important for Apple or any government agency to really "care" about where you go grocery shopping, how long it takes you to poop or who you're cheating on your wife with.[/QUOTE]

This!

While some would say 'Sheep' , I say who really cares, if you are doing nothing illegal why worry? no one cares about your facebook pics,dropbox files, your twitter/FB status updates/rants , I do not mind one bit if they access information/files that would lead them to capture predators/those who store and distribute Child pornography/ illegal activities drug deals etc..go ahead knock yourself out, the gov't doesn't need PRISM to get YOU, if they want YOU they will get YOU old school style , park a van next to your residence /work place or send an undercover agent your way , but to get that treatment you must be doing something wrong

 

[OneMike]

Hey wait, what about my FileVault password that I let Apple store... in case I forget.. does the NSA get that? I guess I'm creating a new FileVault and not giving Apple access to "hold" it for me.

Bryan

I was always told if two people know something it is no longer a secret.

I never allow apple or any company to store that info. If it's something I may forget I work more on remembering it before I set it.

 

[spacehog371]

This!

While some would say 'Sheep' , I say who really cares, if you are doing nothing illegal why worry? no one cares about your facebook pics,dropbox files, your twitter/FB status updates/rants , I do not mind one bit if they access information/files that would lead them to capture predators/those who store and distribute Child pornography/ illegal activities drug deals etc..go ahead knock yourself out, the gov't doesn't need PRISM to get YOU, if they want YOU they will get YOU old school style , park a van next to your residence /work place or send an undercover agent your way , but to get that treatment you must be doing something wrong

Please read this:

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/0...e-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/all/1

Given the IRS was just exposed for discriminating based purely on a group's political views, it is entirely possible that given access to personal information (i.e. the political viewpoints of individuals) they would then use that to discriminate against people purely because they hold different political views.

Additionally, there are a ton of people out there who in fact do have something to hide that is not at all illegal. For example, journalists who are speaking to sources for their stories. Those sources could be anyone, and if it is believed that the government is able to read and listen to all messages, there is a chilling effect on free speech because people will be too afraid to speak as they know all of their communications are tapped.

That means that whistleblowers will come forward far less often, as they feel they aren't able to without coming under attack from the government. That means those with controversial views speak far less often. You do not want that to happen... you want there to be a free press, and you don't want journalists to be scared of doing their jobs.

You have no idea who will be looking at your information, or what it would be used for. You have no way of knowing if it will be used against you in the future.

Moreover, you should demand those protections for others even if you yourself don't feel like you would ever be subject to it... just like we demand innocent until proven guilty, a fair trial, etc.

You may not become subject to a criminal prosecution, but you sure as hell want those protections in place for people who do, because that is the nature of rights. You don't allow the government to skirt around a trial and say "Trust us, this person is guilty." Why would you allow the government to skirt around other constitutional protections?

 

[SolRayz]

Last week's podcast on TWiT.tv, Security Now, Steve Gibson detailed how the NSA is obtaining data and how companies themselves are not participating or cooperating with them outside of court orders and requests.

Basically, they're tapping into the fiber optic feeds at the ISP level and splitting the light waves off (hence the term Prism) to their own routers and equipment. This is all done upstream of companies like Apple and Google. So the NSA is getting that data before it ever makes it's way to Apple, Google et al...

Skip ahead to about 57:31 to get the technical details of this.

YouTube: video

Thank you for this. It all really makes a lot of sense. Internet users across the world should be outraged by this.