Apple Releases Statement on Customer Privacy and Law Enforcement Requests for Customer Data

[Jibbajabba]

I am sure the agencies (whichever doesn't matter) have enough resources to gain access to any data held on any server of any company they want. With or without their knowledge. Let's face it though, unless you are a criminal, what you got to lose - 'you' aren't THAT important, so moving on

 

[MultiMediaWill]

And this is why I'll never use the cloud, nor FB, nor upload sensitive data that is unencrypted. Once it's on the 'net, anyone can get it.

TRUST NO ONE!

Did you even read the article? Apple says it doesn't store most of the critical data.

 

[dragje]

Of course, the vast majority of people have nothing to hide, as they aren't doing anything particularity interesting, nor illegal. However Meta-data analysis is becoming increasingly powerful and useful in deriving useful information from the chaos.

But that "most" people has nothing to hide is for me not an argument. I don't care if I've got something to hide or not, it's nobodies business to stick his or her nose into information I provide without the permission for strangers to access it. What else is the meaning of putting stuff behind password protected area's within the iCloud??

The very basic fact that people can have a look on what I'm chatting about with my family is an area governments shouldn't be allowed to walk into to begin with.

Now everyone is stating very loudly that nothing is going on. A week ago a high chief Google dude was at a small conference where I was invited as well for an interview. Before he started answering questions he directly started to say that none of the allegations where true. But those where 'just' his words.

I agree with your first post, you better keep your information for yourself by not putting it on a cloud, just to be sure without getting paranoia here. This story is not over yet!

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Did you even read the article? Apple says it doesn't store most of the critical data.

So if Apple says so it's correct?

 

[SeattleMoose]

Never really understood the big push towards having all our data "in the cloud".

Now it is perfectly clear.

The NSA already has your web searches/downloads, phone, and emails. But what they didn't have was the data on your hard drives. The "cloud" solves this problem for the NSA. When you backup to the cloud they have EVERYTHING on you.

And this article...is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot Apple cannot disclose...for reasons of National Security...

Bah Bah Bah...now be a good sheep and sign up to have the NSA (er I mean Apple) store ALL your data.

 

[macs4nw]

.....Specifically, Apple notes that iMessage and FaceTime conversations are unable to be decrypted by Apple and that customer location data, Maps searches, and Siri requests are not stored by Apple in any form that could be tied to a specific user.

Article Link: Apple Releases Statement on Customer Privacy and Law Enforcement Requests for Customer Data

I'm sure, potential terrorists, criminals and anyone else having something to hide, are taking notice of this.
Way to go, to reveal this publicly.

 

[wackymacky]

There is something I find disturbing and hard to believe about all this.

Are we to believe that that there is not backdoor (i.e. second encryption key) that the Corporates have in their encryption mechanisms.

(I'm sure that many here remember the controversy about ten years ago it it was revealed that printer companies quietly encoded the serial number and the manufacturing code of their color laser printers on every page printed at the request of the government to try and stop forgery).

If the government can’t even begin to decrypt the data then PRISM is useless and I can’t see why they would bother.

The possibility of a man-in-the-middle type attack is well known (I know this isn't strictly one but it comes close). Any bad guy worth their salt knows the basics about how data coule be captured like this from the internet and would be trying some form encryption or other method of hiding the presence of data.

 

[scoobydoo99]

Unless they state how many requests they refused, it's a bit meaningless. If they received ~4,000 and only refused a handful, it doesn't mean much.

I doubt if even Apple has the will or resources to scour through thousands of data access requests and give them any kind of meaningful review.

The real issue is WHY would a private company (Apple or anyone else) put themselves in a position to "review" requests and respond to certain ones? That is what courts and judges are for. If it is a law enforcement "request", it should be IGNORED, period. Companies should only respond to a court order (and no, NOT a subpoena, which doesn't require a judge.)

Why would anyone trust Apple, Google, or the others to decide when it's in the interest of national security or the common good or whatever to divulge private information? The courts are our only defense (albeit a weak one). Don't give corporations the power!

 

[tshrimp]

Is Apple just trying to find a way to make me go back to Windows?

 

[DisMyMac]

Believe it or not.. you are not that interesting nor that important for Apple or any government agency to really "care" about where you go grocery shopping, how long it takes you to poop or who you're cheating on your wife with.

It takes just a few years for conditions to change and send people on a one-way train ride to Poland. That's unlikely, since all of the world's cults now work to prevent it, but it could happen.

 

[iMikeT]

Genie is out of the bottle and it's going to be hard to trust anyone with our data, even Apple.

 

[Mike MA]

No surprise

 

[tongxinshe]

There is no one on earth with the computing power necessary to break the encryption Apple uses. The same encryption is in use by the military, banks, etc. They may be getting the data scrambled, but they can't decrypt it.

You are totally underestimating the ability of NSA.

 

[scoobydoo99]

It takes just a few years for conditions to change and send people on a one-way train ride to Poland.

True. At some point in the future, a new threat will present itself, the government will claim a need to assert sweeping powers, and as Snowden said, they will "flip the switch" and it's all over. Sad that people don't get that, but I suppose they will get what they deserve.

That's unlikely, since all of the world's cults now work to prevent it, but it could happen.

Not unlikely at all. History has demonstrated the tendency toward totalitarian power and absolute corruption in every culture since the beginning of recorded history. The Romans lasted a couple of thousand year. We won't enjoy anywhere near that longevity.

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I'm sure, potential terrorists, criminals and anyone else having something to hide, are taking notice of this.
Way to go, to reveal this publicly.

They aren't the targets. Everyday law-abiding Americans are.

If you're going to seize power, you have to be able to control the general population.

 

[dragje]

The real issue is WHY would a private company (Apple or anyone else) put themselves in a position to "review" requests and respond to certain ones? That is what courts and judges are for. If it is a law enforcement "request", it should be IGNORED, period. Companies should only respond to a court order (and no, NOT a subpoena, which doesn't require a judge.)

Why would anyone trust Apple, Google, or the others to decide when it's in the interest of national security or the common good or whatever to divulge private information? The courts are our only defense (albeit a weak one). Don't give corporations the power!

Couldn't agree more. Small nuance though, even if a court demands a company to give information a company should be able to refuge as well... There are legal consequences for sure, but even the Law is not holy. There are enough cases in the world where Law wasn't right.... For example in countries where freedom of speech is very low, and the United States is a good example in this.

But I do agree that the law should be the main way of dealing with things, general speaking....

 

[Tech198]

+1 for Apple.


Dam right... Why shoud Apple provide customer data if they don t want to...

In any event, i don't let Apple decide, I decide what apple knows about me by n,y fevealing i fo that i think matters.

For exmple, my U.S iTunes account is all fake.... The address is some hotel which doesn't exsist.

Company's have a right to protect customers regardless of the law... Why do privacy policies exsist then if they don't do anything?

We will probably start seeing they want more and more access, there-by slowly elimitnating such policies.

And if THAT happens, then i may as well not be on the net at all.

I protect my my own data and choose what to disclose.... PERIOD. and if it prevents me using some service "cos we MUST know", then i'll say goodbye.

 

[unplugme71]

I store my important information on paper because no one would even think to check that first. Then I fold it, stuff it in an envelope, and mail it to myself from another address. Never open it until I need it.

Right away its "Get his phone, tablet, and laptop!".

----------

+1 for Apple.


Dam right... Why shoud Apple provide customer data if they don t want to...

In any event, i don't let Apple decide, I decide what apple knows about me by n,y fevealing i fo that i think matters.

For exmple, my U.S iTunes account is all fake.... The address is some hotel which doesn't exsist.

Company's have a right to protect customers regardless of the law... Why do privacy policies exsist then if they don't do anything?

We will probably start seeing they want more and more access, there-by slowly elimitnating such policies.

And if THAT happens, then i may as well not be on the net at all.

I protect my my own data and choose what to disclose.... PERIOD. and if it prevents me using some service "cos we MUST know", then i'll say goodbye.

That's fraud and if you ever did anything illegal it would make the case for you more difficult.

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But that "most" people has nothing to hide is for me not an argument. I don't care if I've got something to hide or not, it's nobodies business to stick his or her nose into information I provide without the permission for strangers to access it. What else is the meaning of putting stuff behind password protected area's within the iCloud??

The very basic fact that people can have a look on what I'm chatting about with my family is an area governments shouldn't be allowed to walk into to begin with.

Now everyone is stating very loudly that nothing is going on. A week ago a high chief Google dude was at a small conference where I was invited as well for an interview. Before he started answering questions he directly started to say that none of the allegations where true. But those where 'just' his words.

I agree with your first post, you better keep your information for yourself by not putting it on a cloud, just to be sure without getting paranoia here. This story is not over yet!

----------



So if Apple says so it's correct?

The point is, you are giving your information to a third-party. They can do whatever they want when it comes down to it. Sure, they might break your trust, but you were the one that provided that information in the first place.

 

[nutjob]

And this is why I'll never use the cloud, nor FB, nor upload sensitive data that is unencrypted. Once it's on the 'net, anyone can get it.

TRUST NO ONE!

That's ok, they can just tap the connection to your ISP, LOL.

----------

+1 for Apple.


Dam right... Why shoud Apple provide customer data if they don t want to...

In any event, i don't let Apple decide, I decide what apple knows about me by n,y fevealing i fo that i think matters.

For exmple, my U.S iTunes account is all fake.... The address is some hotel which doesn't exsist.

Company's have a right to protect customers regardless of the law... Why do privacy policies exsist then if they don't do anything?

We will probably start seeing they want more and more access, there-by slowly elimitnating such policies.

And if THAT happens, then i may as well not be on the net at all.

I protect my my own data and choose what to disclose.... PERIOD. and if it prevents me using some service "cos we MUST know", then i'll say goodbye.

LOL, as if they care about your address. They have your IP number and they ask your ISP for the service address, easy! LOL!

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It takes just a few years for conditions to change and send people on a one-way train ride to Poland. That's unlikely, since all of the world's cults now work to prevent it, but it could happen.

Nice holocaust reference. You're not paranoid at all.

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True. At some point in the future, a new threat will present itself, the government will claim a need to assert sweeping powers, and as Snowden said, they will "flip the switch" and it's all over. Sad that people don't get that, but I suppose they will get what they deserve.



Not unlikely at all. History has demonstrated the tendency toward totalitarian power and absolute corruption in every culture since the beginning of recorded history. The Romans lasted a couple of thousand year. We won't enjoy anywhere near that longevity.

----------



They aren't the targets. Everyday law-abiding Americans are.

If you're going to seize power, you have to be able to control the general population.

OMG, this thread has attracted the true "believers". You're a prepper, right?

 

[charlituna]

that is irrelevant. US citizens are entitled to and guaranteed certain inalienable rights, like privacy from the government spying on them, no matter how mundane the content.

Which amendment is that?

 

[ebouwman]

Basically, they're tapping into the fiber optic feeds at the ISP level and splitting the light waves off (hence the term Prism) to their own routers and equipment. This is all done upstream of companies like Apple and Google. So the NSA is getting that data before it ever makes it's way to Apple, Google et al...

Thats just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You can't just TAP into fibre lines that easy, especially without anyone LIKE THE ISP'S noticing.

There is no one on earth with the computing power necessary to break the encryption Apple uses. The same encryption is in use by the military, banks, etc. They may be getting the data scrambled, but they can't decrypt it.

Ya sure un-decryptable sure...
I really don't know the state of encryption today so I shouldn't really comment but I tend to have my doubts when somebody says that something is uncrackable.

 

[Xgm541]

Believe it or not ... you missed the whole point. No surveillance of innocent regular citizens is a basic principle of democracy.

It's not really a democracy vs. something else question. But if you're going to go that route.. we have to get rid of metal detectors at public government buildings, camera equipped traffic lights, heck get rid of the police too since they can watch me walking down the block.

 

[JoeG4]

Of course, the vast majority of people have nothing to hide, as they aren't doing anything particularity interesting, nor illegal. However Meta-data analysis is becoming increasingly powerful and useful in deriving useful information from the chaos.

If you have enough data about everyone, you can get dirt on anyone.

 

[chocolaterabbit]

Thats just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You can't just TAP into fibre lines that easy, especially without anyone LIKE THE ISP'S noticing.

Is it the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard? After the PRISM reveal, would you really underestimate the possibility of the NSA to tap into fibre lines?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

I quote: "estimated that 10 to 20 such facilities have been installed throughout the United States."

It doesn't matter if the telcos notice this facility or not when they are not allowed to know what's inside.

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I am sure the agencies (whichever doesn't matter) have enough resources to gain access to any data held on any server of any company they want. With or without their knowledge. Let's face it though, unless you are a criminal, what you got to lose - 'you' aren't THAT important, so moving on

The keyword being "criminal." As we've seen with the IRS case, this system can be used for more than just criminals. They can look for political opponents, they can look for civil rights campaigners. They can look for anyone they want and they don't have to tell you what kind of person that is.

When the NSA can define what kind of person is a criminal or not according to their own definition, are you sure you're not a "criminal?"

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I'm sure, potential terrorists, criminals and anyone else having something to hide, are taking notice of this.
Way to go, to reveal this publicly.

Any terrorist/criminal with half a brain would already have heard of encryption. How many terrorists/criminals are sitting there, on a lazy afternoon, looking to catch up on the latest rumours about the iPhone 5S that they're going to line up on day 1 for, before seeing this article and thinking, hey, why not use iMessage to catch up with my terrorist/criminal buddies? If they were any competent, they would've set up their own secure communication network already.

No, this system is for keeping tabs on regular joes who don't know much about technology.

 

[SandboxGeneral]

Thats just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You can't just TAP into fibre lines that easy, especially without anyone LIKE THE ISP'S noticing.

Yes, it is that easy. Read this URL --> Fiber tapping. ISP's may or may not notice, but when the government knocks on their door and gives them a legal order to allow them a room in their facility, it's difficult for them to just say no.

Ya sure un-decryptable sure...
I really don't know the state of encryption today so I shouldn't really comment but I tend to have my doubts when somebody says that something is uncrackable.

You really need to familiarize yourself with the cryptography industry. Read this post earlier in this thread about the security of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), which the name doesn't do it justice since PGP far exceeds "pretty good."

Then listen to this series on cryptography and how it works from this post, from earlier in this thread.

Then read the documentation from this post about the Prism program and how it was done.

I have provided you with the necessary information explaining how all of this is possible that you need to make an informed opinion on this matter. Please read and listen to it before you make comments such as you have here.

 

[Mac32]

The statement by Apple seems very reasonable, but the problem is that the American (in particular) government and big corporations have been exposed as pathological liers, and it's very hard to trust anything they say anymore. It's all propaganda - ie. trying to present oneself in the best possible light to maintain economical and political power, and bending the truth, even outright lie, to fit one's selfish goals.

 

[jennyp]

Right now, it would take billions of years for the most powerful computer in the world to break the encryption.

It's not quite right to say it would take "billions of years". It would take that time to test every possible password. It could be decrypted in five minutes. Admittedly the chances of that happening are extremely small, but that would be the correct way to state it.