Apple Requiring Employees to Return to Office 3x Per Week Starting on September 5

[jonnysods]

The ability to work from home is a blessing - I'm an essential worker, so I've had to be out and about and on site from the very beginning of this covid thing - but there have been times where I have been able to work from home and I've really appreciated it. I think there is merit in letting people WFH, however the employer has the right to decide what they need from people who work from them. Apple do seem like they are being reasonable and doing this slowly.

 

[Powerguru]

Step 1 towards normalcy. I hope more companies start doing this. And next year we have all 5 days working from office.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Because people in the office go somewhere near the office for lunch… or, when they’re not using internal catering services, having catering delivered… or are having their drycleaning done nearby? There’s probably a LOT of businesses that benefit from there being a couple hundred people milling about.

Apple Park has a massive cafeteria. Parking is on site. Infinite Loop has a cafeteria. Apple in Austin has a cafeteria, and is far removed from the downtown core with parking on site. Wake County isn't open yet in NC, but their temporary home in the MetLife building in Cary has a cafeteria. In NYC that's all true though, people leave for lunch.

 

[spazzcat]

....based on the companies you have worked for.

Well, of course, that's how experience works ...

 

[mdatwood]

That's a great suggestion. I told my employer exactly that..."If you make me come back even 1 day, I quit". They folded and gave me a raise.

I did the same thing over a decade ago. What took you so long?

 

[mdatwood]

Because people in the office go somewhere near the office for lunch… or, when they’re not using internal catering services, having catering delivered… or are having their drycleaning done nearby? There’s probably a LOT of businesses that benefit from there being a couple hundred people milling about.

This is the same argument against other progress like EVs (what about all the gas stations?) or cars (what about all the horse shoe makers?). Times change. Just because someone had a good business yesterday does not mean they get to have a good business today or tomorrow.

 

[steve09090]

Well, of course, that's how experience works ...

I challenge the comment that "Only a fool is 100% loyal to a company because their company has zero loyalty to them."

Your comments are flawed. I'm pretty sure it's a massive exaggeration from a very very small sample size of experience. Just because you haven't had loyal companies to work for, doesn't mean no one has. I have known some small companies that are been far far worse and have treated employees with contempt and some large companies that treat their employees with respect. I have also seen the reverse being true. It is not about the size, it's about the company.

 

[seek3r]

Companies don’t usually pay for commute time, so avoiding a long commute does actually provide a HUGE work/life balance improvement.

Though, having that de-stress time in the car is actually pretty nice if you’re able to not let traffic affect you and listen to a podcast or book on tape.

I used to commute via train, so I will say the one thing I miss is my time to read, I definitely read less now. Overall though my work/life balance is a lot better so I’ll take that tradeoff

 

[ipponrg]

I have noticed that the people that have a stronger dislike of WFH usually are management, higher management with their corner offices, garage parking spaces and company cars or lower management with their need to prove they serve any purpose and junior people which lack of experience, connections and worse home arrangements.
All the other know by this point they won't be CEOs, do not feel the need or are inclined to engage on corporate politics and therefore have nothing to gain from all this socializing or whatever which comes from office work.
If management had to endure the same as regular employees they would understand why people can become so happy with WFH.

As an engr manager, i do understand and sympathize with the benefits from WFH. However, I think this thought is a little naive in that not everyone who wfh is effective at wfh.

For some people that just recently started wfh as a result of the pandemic, they do a poor job managing their time and attention. Maybe it’s a habit they have to build, but they just were not as effective as if they were in the office.

It is easy for individuals to point at their bosses/mgrs to blame, but they should try to think of it from a different perspective. Not every manager is looking out for only themselves, nor is every individual effective at wfh

 

[seek3r]

Preach.

My coworkers all do teams and google chat, and never want to come back. Communication is pretty terrible.

I get a lot of knowledge from walking around the office talking to other departments.

But. I also strongly suspect that they aren’t doing as much work as they could be since the remote computer work has lag to it and fails from time to time.

Has it occurred to all you folks saying “I need to go in because I can wander around and talk to folks I need to get info from” that *you* are one of the problems that causes your colleagues to want to stay at home?

Context switches suck, one of the more irritating pieces of working in an office - particularly if it’s open floor plan where you cant close a door if you’re focusing - is getting constant interruptions from people who don’t know how to message you on teams/slack/etc and wait for a reply and instead come over and bug you for instant gratification.

 

[JM]

Has it occurred to all you folks saying “I need to go in because I can wander around and talk to folks I need to get info from” that *you* are one of the problems that causes your colleagues to want to stay at home?

Context switches suck, one of the more irritating pieces of working in an office - particularly if it’s open floor plan where you cant close a door if you’re focusing - is getting constant interruptions from people who don’t know how to message you on teams/slack/etc and wait for a reply and instead come over and bug you for instant gratification.

It is possible to be respectful of others’ time and work focus without creating a ooh-so-scary work environment that drives all the employees to WFH, lol.

Sure, there’s people that have zero awareness and insert themselves disrespectfully into everyone’s bizness, that causes annoyances and distractions; but the solution is not to create a culture of “everyone to their caves at homes! We need focus!”

What it seems to be a take away from your comments, is that the people who cherish WFH really hate their jobs and don’t ever want to talk to their coworkers. That doesn’t sound healthy. 🤔

 

[seek3r]

It is possible to be respectful of others’ time and work focus without creating a ooh-so-scary work environment that drives all the employees to WFH, lol.

Sure, there’s people that have zero awareness and insert themselves disrespectfully into everyone’s bizness, that causes annoyances and distractions; but the solution is not to create a culture of “everyone to their caves at homes! We need focus!”

What it seems to be a take away from your comments, is that the people who cherish WFH really hate their jobs and don’t ever want to talk to their coworkers. That doesn’t sound healthy. 🤔

I talk to my coworkers constantly, over messages in dozens of running chats, in meetings, and in casual calls. It’s not uncommon on my team to get a message from someone with “hey, if you’ve got a few soon can we hop on a call?” and jump on when you’re both free.

I also spend a lot of time pair programming with folks and swapping screen sharing as we talk and work over the call. I spend a huge portion of my day talking to coworkers while working from home. What I dont have anymore is random interruptions when I’m trying to focus on a thorny problem.

I get that some places seem to absolutely suck at anything other than in person communication but y’all that assume it applies everywhere dont realize what you’re complaining about is your company’s culture, not general WFH problems that need to be solved with in person work.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

2 days at home sounds great.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

I have noticed that the people that have a stronger dislike of WFH usually are management, higher management with their corner offices, garage parking spaces and company cars or lower management with their need to prove they serve any purpose and junior people which lack of experience, connections and worse home arrangements.

Hey bud, you just rattled off like 50% of the white collar work force.

 

[DesignTime]

In other news, Apple has removed Labor Day as a holiday from their calendar.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

Preach.

My coworkers all do teams and google chat, and never want to come back. Communication is pretty terrible.

I get a lot of knowledge from walking around the office talking to other departments.

But ultimately I don’t have the long commutes they do, so my opinion on the matter is not worth as much. I’m sure I would be much more in favor of WFH 100% if I was losing two hours of my day to sitting in 5mph traffic :/

But. I also strongly suspect that they aren’t doing as much work as they could be since the remote computer work has lag to it and fails from time to time.

I’m not the manager, though 🤷‍♂️

The other departments are doing a 2/3 week, but when they told us to return for three days of the week: our department produced a LOT of complaints and “squeaky wheeling” about coming back to the office at all, so upper management caved and put a moratorium on office return. (But they are slowly, slowly introducing minor things that lead me to believe they are going to start forcing returns. But I could be wrong )

I have 9 employees. We are down to work from home 1 day a week if you want. 2 of those employees do it religiously and if there is a tiny possible need to work from home, say they have to drop their kid off at summer camp at 9am or pick them up at 3pm...they ask to work at home those days. Before VID they never asked to do this stuff, just came in late or left early.

These 2 are the least productive and became even more so during the VID.

 

[timber]

As an engr manager, i do understand and sympathize with the benefits from WFH. However, I think this thought is a little naive in that not everyone who wfh is effective at wfh.

For some people that just recently started wfh as a result of the pandemic, they do a poor job managing their time and attention. Maybe it’s a habit they have to build, but they just were not as effective as if they were in the office.

It is easy for individuals to point at their bosses/mgrs to blame, but they should try to think of it from a different perspective. Not every manager is looking out for only themselves, nor is every individual effective at wfh

I didn't mean that because you belong to a certain group you are forced to comply with my stereotypes. Those are just general observations mixed with having some fun.
There are certainly people that aren't effective on wfh, some aren't effective anywhere...
Junior people are probably the ones that suffer more, they can't place a face on anyone, don't know where to start or who to talk with, perhaps don't even know what to do.
This Apple approach of 3 fixed days in, 2 home does seem they don't really get WFH. They seem to believe that WFH are days off and what people want is more of it.

 

[alexandr]

It's about building and maintaining a corporate culture and to a certain degree control. Most high-level managers believe 100% working from home will erode corporate culture and make the employees less loyal to the company over time.

I mean, if you're 100% working from home, you can work for anyone, anywhere.

Also I have seen here in Norway, that young people who are just starting their careers and thus lack experience and often doesn't have the extra space at home, dislike 100% working from home.

You know what makes employees loyal? Loyalty of the company they work for. If the company cares about your wellbeing they probably shouldn't force you to do things that aren't necessarily effecting your work.

Sure, you "can work for anyone", but will you have time on top of the work you already have? Besides, do you really think that people never freelanced while being at work before?! HA.

Exactly why I'm saying that it's great for it to be an option, this way if people dislike working from home, or it negatively effects their work — they have the option to come in and I'm sure a lot of people will prefer to do so.

 

[alexandr]

As an engr manager, i do understand and sympathize with the benefits from WFH. However, I think this thought is a little naive in that not everyone who wfh is effective at wfh.

But everyone working on-site is effective af?

 

[spazzcat]

I challenge the comment that "Only a fool is 100% loyal to a company because their company has zero loyalty to them."

Your comments are flawed. I'm pretty sure it's a massive exaggeration from a very very small sample size of experience. Just because you haven't had loyal companies to work for, doesn't mean no one has. I have known some small companies that are been far far worse and have treated employees with contempt and some large companies that treat their employees with respect. I have also seen the reverse being true. It is not about the size, it's about the company.

If you found a company loyal to you, good for you ...

 

[Mousse]

Is it going to be 3 whole days of working or just show up and catch up with co-workers face to face?

Come on, man. If you work in an office, you already know the answer.😉 For me, that's 3 days to trying to avoid co-workers and office politics.😑 It also means putting in my hour of insane productivity and spending the rest of the day on MR, Reedit and YouTube.😁

My only real beef with having to return to the office is having to put on pants again. If they implement pants optional policy, I wouldn't mine coming back to the office. It's hotter than the devil's butt crack in Houston now. Having to put on pants in triple digit weather should be considered torture and banned by the Geneva Convention.😏

 

[DblHelix]

Sounds fair. Two days to be lazy and not have to drive into the office? I could do the same set up at my job, but I choose to drive in daily because I've found that working from home taints my home space with work vibes, and I don't want to think about the job while home.

I don’t think about work when I’m wfh

 

[Smearbrick]

I found more productivity and collaboration working in the office even though WFH is quite comfortable. I guess those who advocate against WFH work simple jobs and would rather work 2-3 hours at home and spend the rest chilling. Those with more demanding jobs require close collaboration with teammates to maximize efficiency and productivity.

And then there are others who have demanding jobs that require a solitary effort. Not all demanding jobs require close collaboration. Get over yourself.

 

[temende]

Step 1 towards normalcy. I hope more companies start doing this. And next year we have all 5 days working from office.

Who is "we"?

 

[JM]

I talk to my coworkers constantly, over messages in dozens of running chats, in meetings, and in casual calls. It’s not uncommon on my team to get a message from someone with “hey, if you’ve got a few soon can we hop on a call?” and jump on when you’re both free.

I also spend a lot of time pair programming with folks and swapping screen sharing as we talk and work over the call. I spend a huge portion of my day talking to coworkers while working from home. What I dont have anymore is random interruptions when I’m trying to focus on a thorny problem.

I get that some places seem to absolutely suck at anything other than in person communication but y’all that assume it applies everywhere dont realize what you’re complaining about is your company’s culture, not general WFH problems that need to be solved with in person work.

Very true. It absolutely depends on what the work involves, and what the culture is like.

Happy WFH works (ha) for you.