Apple Stores to Drop Mask Requirement for Vaccinated Customers This Week

[I7guy]

[...] Meanwhile, it was settled science for 60 years that cloth and paper masks are entirely useless for asymptomatic people.[...]

What about two years ago? And do you have a citation?

 

[jk73]

What about two years ago? And do you have a citation?

“There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.” — Saint Anthony Fauci, March 8, 2020.

 

[I7guy]

“There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.” — Saint Anthony Fauci, March 8, 2020.

Notice the wording. Didn’t say it doesn’t help, just says it’s not perfect. Thus doesn’t prove your point.

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

CDC 2021

 

[jk73]

Notice the wording. Didn’t say it doesn’t help, just says it’s not perfect. Thus doesn’t prove your point.

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

CDC 2021

Yes, I did “notice the wording.”

“There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask” speaks for itself. Please don’t insult people’s intelligence by trying to spin it into an endorsement of mask usage.

 

[Silverstring]

This is hilarious. I doubt more than 10% of the miles driven in the U.S. are “necessary.” Meanwhile, it was settled science for 60 years that cloth and paper masks are entirely useless for asymptomatic people. Masks are only useful for sick people, who shouldn’t be out and around anyway.

False equivalence.

Your logic implies that it would be “irrational” for anyone to consider risk in anything but absolute terms, rather than relative ones.

That’s what’s “hilarious”, whether masks and driving are the two risk factors being weighed or not.

 

[Silverstring]

This is hilarious. I doubt more than 10% of the miles driven in the U.S. are “necessary.”

In 2017, commuting to and from work accounted for about a quarter of total vehicle trips, and about 30 percent of vehicle-miles traveled

Source.

Unless you have a better—or any at all—source for data, you're already off by a factor of 3, and that's only if one were to count commuting to work as the only necessary miles driven in the U.S.

Or, do you suggest that miles commuting to work are "unnecessary" miles?

 

[jk73]

Can you explain how people like me wearing a mask is harming you or those around me? What business is it to you to criticize others from taking additional precaution to protect all members of their family. Which to remind you, is a simple of act of wearing a mask most of us have been wearing for the last 14-15 months for less than an hour a day.

Why is that bothering you so much? Yes, chances are, younger people will be fine. But with Delta variant and unvaccinated people now traveling all around, it is possible for vaccinated people to be the breakthrough case and spread to vulnerable not-yet-eligible-for-vaccination population.

Yes, so excuse me for being offended by your smug attitude.

Are you aware that the WHO is recommending against vaccinating kids under age 18? Are you going to disregard that, or have your kids wear a mask for years to come?

 

[jk73]

Source.

Unless you have a better—or any at all—source for data, you're already off by a factor of 3, and that's only if one were to count commuting to work as the only necessary miles driven in the U.S.

Or, do you suggest that miles commuting to work are "unnecessary" miles?

I’m not off by a factor of anything.

Are you seriously arguing that millions of people need to live so far from where they work? Are you seriously arguing that mass transit options are being fully utilized?

 

[I7guy]

Are you aware that the WHO is recommending against vaccinating kids under age 18? Are you going to disregard that, or have your kids wear a mask for years to come?

Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

Essential workers, healthcare staff, underlying health issues and more

www.cdc.gov

Someone from WHO forgot to tell the CDC that.

 

[jk73]

Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

Essential workers, healthcare staff, underlying health issues and more

www.cdc.gov

Someone from WHO forgot to tell the CDC that.

I mention WHO and you counter with CDC, which just held an emergency meeting because so many under-18s are developing heart problems after the jab. Gee, I wonder which one is right?

 

[Silverstring]

I’m not off by a factor of anything.

Are you seriously arguing that millions of people need to live so far from where they work? Are you seriously arguing that mass transit options are being fully utilized?

No, I'm simply saying that if your goal is reducing risk, the choice to wear a mask instead of ceasing to drive, turning in your car, and upending you and whole family's daily routine to convert to mass transit simply because driving carries more risk of death than COVID independent of all other variables, that isn't "irrational".

Besides, the greater point of the fallacy of evaluating risk in absolute terms still holds true...it's silly to value the varying benefits of different risks at zero. That would be irrational.

This isn't hard.

 

[jk73]

No, I'm simply saying that if your goal is reducing risk, the choice to wear a mask instead of ceasing to drive, turning in your car, and upending you and whole family's daily routine to convert to mass transit simply because driving carries more risk of death than COVID independent of all other variables, that isn't "irrational".

Besides, the greater point of the fallacy of evaluating risk in absolute terms still holds true...it's silly to value the varying benefits of different risks at zero. That would be irrational.

This isn't hard.

This is just a lot of hand-waving. “I’m worried about reducing deadly risks, unless there’s more than a few seconds of inconvenience” isn’t a serious position. It’s performance art.

 

[Silverstring]

I mention WHO and you counter with CDC, which just held an emergency meeting because so many under-18s are developing heart problems after the jab. Gee, I wonder which one is right?

"So many" = 300 cases in 20 million.

 

[Silverstring]

This is just a lot of hand-waving. “I’m worried about reducing deadly risks, unless there’s more than a few seconds of inconvenience” isn’t a serious position. It’s performance art.

Right, because the choice between driving to work and substituting any other mode of transportation only introduces "a few seconds of inconvenience."

You know what does only take a literal "few seconds of inconvenience"? Wearing a mask.

 

[jk73]

"So many" = 300 cases in 20 million.

That’s more than have died of COVID.

 

[I7guy]

I mention WHO and you counter with CDC, which just held an emergency meeting because so many under-18s are developing heart problems after the jab. Gee, I wonder which one is right?

Can you define many? Many people developed a clot after taking the J&J vaccine, but the J&J was eventually cleared after the rocky start.

But my point still stands. Vaccinations are not being pulled for over 12 years old.

Gee, I wonder who is right?

 

[jk73]

Right, because the choice between driving to work and substituting any other mode of transportation only introduces "a few seconds of inconvenience."

You know what does only take a literal "few seconds of inconvenience"? Wearing a mask.

More hand-waving.

 

[Silverstring]

That’s more than have died of COVID.

Please provide any source for this claim.

 

[I7guy]

That’s more than have died of COVID.

People are welcome to believe what they want. The world isn't stopping because of misplaced conspiracy theories here on MR. I'm only glad we get to discuss them and let the internet decide.

 

[jk73]

Can you define many? Many people developed a clot after taking the J&J vaccine, but the J&J was eventually cleared after the rocky start.

But my point still stands. Vaccinations are not being pulled for over 12 years old.

Gee, I wonder who is right?

”Yes, a bunch of kids are developing heart problems — and even dying — after getting a vaccination they don’t need, but the bureaucrats refuse to admit error, so we should keep on vaccinating kids” is equal parts hilarious and monstrous.

 

[jk73]

People are welcome to believe what they want. The world isn't stopping because of misplaced conspiracy theories here on MR. I'm only glad we get to discuss them and let the internet decide.

Non sequitur.

 

[jk73]

Please provide any source for this claim.

This shtick is so tiresome.

Children make up nearly 21% of new COVID-19 cases

Since the start of the pandemic, more than 3.63 million children have tested positive for COVID-19 and at least 297 have died.

www.aappublications.org

 

[Silverstring]

This shtick is so tiresome.

Children make up nearly 21% of new COVID-19 cases

Since the start of the pandemic, more than 3.63 million children have tested positive for COVID-19 and at least 297 have died.

www.aappublications.org

Thanks.

From the provided link:

Since the start of the pandemic, more than 3.63 million children have tested positive, making up about 13.6% of all cases.

At least 297 children have died of COVID-19, about 0.06% of all deaths. About 0.01% of children diagnosed with COVID-19 have died. At least 14,849 children have been hospitalized, about 2% of all hospitalizations. Roughly 0.8% of children with COVID-19 have been hospitalized.

"So many" = 300 cases in 20 million.

That’s more than have died of COVID.

So you're trying to take a "serious position" that 297 deaths in 3.63 million is even remotely comparable to 300 cases in 20 million? You're not even trying here.

Denominators aren't "shtick".

 

[nutmac]

Are you aware that the WHO is recommending against vaccinating kids under age 18? Are you going to disregard that, or have your kids wear a mask for years to come?

Can you provide a citation?

Not that I hold WHO at the highest regard, I will cite WHO themselves (red emphasis mine):

WHO SHOULD GET VACCINATED

The COVID-19 vaccines are safe for most people 18 years and older, including those with pre-existing conditions of any kind, including auto-immune disorders. These conditions include: hypertension, diabetes, asthma, pulmonary, liver and kidney disease, as well as chronic infections that are stable and controlled.
If supplies are limited in your area, discuss your situation with your care provider if you:

• Have a compromised immune system
• Are pregnant (if you are already breastfeeding, you should continue after vaccination)
• Have a history of severe allergies, particularly to a vaccine (or any of the ingredients in the vaccine)
• Are severely frail

Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.

More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

It's important for children to continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines.

 

[jk73]

Thanks.

From the provided link:







So you're trying to take a "serious position" that 297 deaths in 3.63 million is even remotely comparable to 300 cases in 20 million? You're not even trying here.

Denominators aren't "shtick".

You have an odd knack for missing the point.

The vast majority of kids who’ve died of COVID — just like the vast majority of adults who’ve died of COVID — were high-risk and/or already suffering from major health problems. The kids developing heart problems after the jab, on the other hand, are just random, healthy kids who were at near-zero risk of COVID.

“My healthy kid is at no risk of COVID, but I’ll get him vaccinated despite the risk of serious side effects so people will like me on Facebook” is a monstrous position.