Problems for Apple. Apple should steadily increase production outside China.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Supplier Pegatron Denies Reports of China Blocking Shipments
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
There are plenty of nations whose workers can be exploited even more than they are in China.
But Apple's problem is where do you get a nation with 1.5 billion people who can be exploited just as badly as they can in China? A huge workforce is required to meet Apple's demands in consumer goods.
Indians (from India) have a higher wage than their Chinese counterparts. Plus, unlike their counterparts in China, those in India can strike. An increase in costs for manufacturing would upset shareholders.
This is what Tim Cook is dealing with.
Last edited:
It's 'seen favourably' by its satellite states. Most countries opt to stay on the sideline.
That’s a myth.
Every nation has some degree of state owned enterprises.
Every nation has some degree of socialized services.
The nations with the best mass STEM literacy and best healthcare have socialized healthcare and education to high levels. They are free trading nations with strong private sector.
This doesn’t mean they lead to ‘communism’.
Almost all great innovations of the 20th and 21st century were incubated in colleges and government institutions And funded by the taxpayer.
The innovations are then outsourced and given to the private sector.
If we want China to change and become like South Korea and Japan, we still have to trade with it.
But to change its mentality, we need the send lots of memes to Chinese citizens.
The memes should be about love, freedom of expression, freedom of trade, dangers of climate change because of pollution and bad leaders, dangers of oligarchs, dangers of money scams.
It sounds silly, but it works. That’s why China blocked so much western media and western social media apps.
They block it for their normal citizens and only allow it to be used by their troll armies and ‘wolf‘ diplomats.
But we can still find a way to reach all their citizens.
They play this game to make our citizens attack our system. They bribe our politicians.
So now do it back, but be double careful about every step.
Only dictator boot lickers would disagree.
Last edited:
Unfortunately not yet. But in the end democracy is a political idea and socialism is an economical idea.
Clinton normalized relations with Vietnam in “95. Vietnam WILL take on much more assembly. They either bare no grudges, or are willing to ignore them in order to secure foreign investment.
Socialism is a political idea and every time it's been introduced it produced an oppressive country. I.E The Nazi's (National Socialist), The Soviet Union, The People's republic of China, The Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Republic of Cuba, and more.
Okay I made a mistake in speaking, real communism has never happened yet. All those countries we call Communist are Socialist countries. Also, government funded scientific studies are farrr different. And socialised healthcare has caused many deaths. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada
Last edited:
Yeah but the Vietnamese population is really small. They wouldn't be able to handle a significant portion of Apple's demand.
Lol. Apple's demand? US economy cannot produce enough money to sustain a relatively high level of life of its citizens. Printing money is the only option to do so which is not an ideal solution. So the standards of life in US will have to be eventually reduced by 30-40% or maybe even more.
A lot of the discussion here is about the wages and working conditions of Chinese workers. In contrast to what most people believe, the US Constitution bans neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, but do we really want to support exploitive labour conditions in other countries? I sure don't. Nor do I want to support any authoritarian regimes. I don't think that moving manufacturing out of Asia is such a great idea either (pity the poor Taiwanese), but manufacturing that is essential to US security should move back to the US or to her allies insofar as possible. I am thinking chip manufacturing, precision machining, robotics, rocketry and shipbuilding.
You're mistaking socialism for authoritarianism, and you are ignoring democratic socialism in large swaths of Europe. Just sayin'. Still I think we'd all be happier in the long run if Apple was less dependent on the PRC both for manufacturing and as a market controlled by an authoritarian regime.
I just showed you proof that every socialist country is authoritarian and you still deny it. Also assuming you’re talking about Scandinavia no. No one there is socialist.
Last edited:
How what?
If you had 100 million dollars you are probably going to be just as happy with 50 million and have nothing to worry about.
Russia is authoritarian? It has about 2 million politicians(including police and military) in administrative positions who are pretty much openly working against their own country. If this is not freedom, nothing is. This is probably explains why China is very, very reluctant "friend" of Russia as they don't trust those politicians. The "orange revolution" crowd in US political establishment are embolden by this and really counting on those politicians to do their bidding for them. But they are living in the past as the game is much more complex than this.
Despite its seemingly weak cards Russia is a much stronger conceptual player than for instance China is. China lacks a lot of core competencies so they really have no choice but to use social ratings and other totalitarian measures which are likely do them more harm than good in the long run. But as I said they can only work with the knowledge and skills they have, they can't just copy Russia in order to become a stronger player.
That’s the thing. The theory of socialism does not allow that it is „introduced“.
Again you got tricked by names.
The nazis were a fascist regime (I cannot believe you didnt know that…) and used the term socialism in their party name because the idea of socialism was very popular among workers worldwide. But their never was an economy with socialist goals in Germany.
Socialism did not produce oppressive countries but it was used as propaganda by oppressive countries.
And again there are many more far more oppressive countries having a capitalist economy and capitalism.
Even the usa: many people there live in such poverty that they have to beg for food and stand in line for food although it is one of the riches countries in the world. If that is not oppressive then what?
They also have more citizens (per 1000) imprisoned than any other country in the world, including china and north corea.
Unbelievable, you don't see it. You try to make up stories that these countries were not socialist even though it known by people with brain cells that they were. Fascism was made by and is Socialist. (I cannot believe you didn't know that). And they did introduce socialist policies. They seized private property and made it the state's own. "Giving it to the people". They took control of the economy, had socialized healthcare, and many other actual socialist policies. Also, how is anyone being poor at all "oppressive". What is oppressive is the idea that people should be censored for "hate speech". Also how selfish are you for thinking that you have the right to other people's money that they earned and that they should be punished for that. And also your idol Bernie Sanders praised the Soviet Union.
And finally, people like me want to just make sure America does not become the USSR.
Last edited:
With all due respect, you should save you ire for authoritarianism, not socialism. The US has many socialist institutions and features, like the emergency services, military, highway maintenance, schools, libraries, parks, etc., all of which are owned or conducted on behalf of the people and paid for by taxes. Indeed in colonial days most towns had publicly funded facilities to support the sick and mentally ill people who could not take care of themselves. This long history of socialism in the US doesn't mean the US is going to descend into the nightmare of the USSR - for that we would need to concentrate too much power into too few hands. Hopefully checks and balances and the voters will prevent that from ever happening.
To illustrate what I am talking about, consider the spectre of the USSR that you raised. The current Russian state is not communist or socialist like the old USSR, but the concentration of power into too few hands continues to make Russia a godawful dangerous state. Getting back to this thread, the PRC's real problem is a similar concentration of power, not public ownership. The fact the PRC tries to bully neighbours like its own citizens doesn't hep to make it popular among Western consumers either. FWIW I personally know people who have been granted political asylum in the West because of the PRC's policies. Their issue with the PRC was never public ownership, for they never felt deprived by that in any way, but the concentrated abuse of power by the PRC's government.
It’s ok, people like me just want to make sure the rest of the world does not become like the usa where rich people make money from other people’s labor and spread the propaganda that they somehow “deserved” it. And the wars they spread over the world. And the hate speech and proven lies they allow their politicians which leads to minorities not being safe and force being stronger than the right.
Plus the obvious lack of basic knowledge of history.
Maybe ask yourself why private property of productive means was forbidden in Germany after being freed from fascism. Hint: because everyone saw how deep the connection between the nazis and the private sector was and how much money Krupp and others made with the war.
You have a serious lack of knowledge and your childish “brain cell” insult just makes it even more obvious.
Btw I don’t want the ussr back but the social security and living standard for workers would appear as a pure pradise to the many poor us Americans in the suburbs of every single one of their big cities.
Last edited:
So let me get this clear you think the living standards, for the poor people in America is worse than the genocide of millions of people in the gulags of the Soviet union.
Last edited:
And it seems obvious to me that you have not done your research. I have read many history books, studied the propaganda art of these countries, have done outside research learning the logic of a capitalist and a socialist and many other countless discoveries over the years.
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin." -Ronald Reagan
My guess is Reagan, like many in the US, neither read nor understood Marx or Lenin. Also, reading and understanding their work doesn't indicate agreement, so the statement is false and inflammatory. Lest MR forum readers assume all Americans are wilfully ignorant about history, Marx and Lenin were required reading when I went to university in Virginia, along with the great works of many other philosophers and social scientists across the political spectrum. Then again, that was before the Unenlightenment.
Anyway, we're diverging from the thread so I have said my piece.
He is not saying that anti-communists agree with marx, he's saying they understand when they read and see that it is a terrible system.