Apple Threatens to Pull FaceTime and iMessage in the UK Over Proposed Surveillance Law Changes

[Razorpit]

The common refrain from some conservatives that “We’re a Republic, Not a Democracy.” It's nonsense. We're both.


The 17th amendment was ratified by 41 states and only rejected by 1. Hardly a left wing plot.

And despite your reticence to change, our system of government as described in the constitution, includes the ability to change and adapt the system over time. It isn't a "breakdown" to change the system. It's working as intended.

It was one of the hallmarks of the progressive era. It is a breakdown because it gave the Federal government more power than what the original framers intended. Just because something changed doesn't mean it's for the better. Ask Coke how that change worked for them.

 

[BaldiMac]

It was one of the hallmarks of the progressive era. It is a breakdown because it gave the Federal government more power than what the original framers intended. Just because something changed doesn't mean it's for the better. Ask Coke how that change worked for them.

The only intentions of the original framers that are relevant are the words that they put in the constitution. The con of original-ism just means "I'll pick some quotes I like from a select few of the framers in order to justify the position I want."

And what they intended is for the constitution to be adaptable. Because they couldn't predict the future.

As far as the 17th giving more power to the federal government, you're obfuscating the actual power exchange. The direct effect of the amendment was to take the power to choose senators from state legislatures and give it to the people of the state. This country certainly doesn't need gerrymandered state legislatures to have direct control of senators.

The idea that a person that lives in a rural area should have more power than a person that lives in a city was a necessary compromise to create this country. It has little value today.

 

[Razorpit]

The only intentions of the original framers that are relevant are the words that they put in the constitution. The con of original-ism just means "I'll pick some quotes I like from a select few of the framers in order to justify the position I want."

That's a bit general. You could also say the con of progressivism just means, "I'll pick some quotes I don't like from a select few of the framers in order to justify the position I want."

As far as the 17th giving more power to the federal government, you're obfuscating the actual power exchange. The direct effect of the amendment was to take the power to choose senators from state legislatures and give it to the people of the state. This country certainly doesn't need gerrymandered state legislatures to have direct control of senators.

Gerrymandered state legislatures are there to serve the purpose of the State. They aren't there to serve there own purpose. Look at what we have now, senators who's primary responsibility is to be re-elected instead of doing what's needed for the welfare of the State.

The idea that a person that lives in a rural area should have more power than a person that lives in a city was a necessary compromise to create this country. It has little value today.

That pricapal doesn't change just because time has passed. City life has very little in common with rural life. City people share little values with rural people. Why would any small state want to remain in the Union if every decision was from the viewpoint of LA, NYC, Chicago, etc.? You think heavily populated areas care about smaller, rural farms? Or the burdens things like illegal immigration puts on smaller towns resources?

 

[BaldiMac]

That's a bit general. You could also say the con of progressivism just means, "I'll pick some quotes I don't like from a select few of the framers in order to justify the position I want."

That's nonsensical. Progressives don't primarily justify their positions with quotes from framers. Originalists do by definition.

Gerrymandered state legislatures are there to serve the purpose of the State. They aren't there to serve there own purpose. Look at what we have now, senators who's primary responsibility is to be re-elected instead of doing what's needed for the welfare of the State.

Ah, so you believe undemocratically elected officials better represent the state than the people. I don't agree.

That pricapal doesn't change just because time has passed.

I didn't say they change because time has passed. I said it has little value today.

City life has very little in common with rural life. City people share little values with rural people. Why would any small state want to remain in the Union if every decision was from the viewpoint of LA, NYC, Chicago, etc.? You think heavily populated areas care about smaller, rural farms? Or the burdens things like illegal immigration puts on smaller towns resources?

You can say that about any number of groups. What's the justification today? "Rural people and city people share little values, so rural people should have more power." How is that a rational conclusion? Should we give communists more power because they share little values with capitalists?

 

[avz]

Should we give communists more power because they share little values with capitalists?

The problem is that capitalism has been in ICU tied to a life support machine since around early 2000's. This is an absolutely objective reality and whether you think you should give capitalism more power is irrelevant at this stage.

 

[Razorpit]

You can say that about any number of groups. What's the justification today? "Rural people and city people share little values, so rural people should have more power." How is that a rational conclusion? Should we give communists more power because they share little values with capitalists?

Well, concentrating all the votes to large cities is exactly that. 😂

 

[BaldiMac]

Well, concentrating all the votes to large cities is exactly that. 😂

No, it's not. Giving everyone equal power is not the same as giving individuals in less populated states more power.