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PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
...but then who is actually going to spend only $6k on the Mac Pro? Even its supporters often admit that the $6k model makes no sense other than as a starting point for custom expansion: on its own, with "only" an 8 core processor, a minimal SSD and an iMac GPU, its going to be less powerful all round than the iMac Pro, and even an i9 iMac will probably beat it in a sprint.

The real complaint about the Mac Pro is the death of the $3K headless Mac for people who just want to choose their own GPU and displays and maybe add extra internal storage. Paying twice that for a system that offers no huge advantages until and unless you load it up with another $10k of upgrades is not value for money.

On Tuesday, we'll find out how much its going to cost to upgrade it to (say) 12 core, 1TB SSD and VegaII, then maybe we can stop kicking this $6k figure around. Based on past performance, though, Apple charges hefty markups on top of the retail price of the nearest equivalent components.

Meanwhile, it is nice to know that the definition of "Pro" means "has an unlimited equipment budget and no constraints on cashflow or credit".



In a corporate/enterprise environment, payroll and equipment exist in completely separate worlds, and mere mortal computer users don't have the privilege of amortising one against the other. Both will have their own independent budgets and their own bean counters, both of whom will have briefs to cut their spending. The whole game is to meet your efficiency targets by surreptitiously offloading your costs onto other departments and/or wage slaves doing unpaid overtime.

Good luck justifying that $14,000 Mac Pro system to your equipment budget manager if they get it into their head that a $7000 PC workstation and a $1000 course in Alternative Software Product (which they can get HR to pay for) will do the same job. Anyway - were you planning to take a pay/hours cut because your new Mac made you more efficient?
Your bitch that the base is $3k overpriced means you’re bitching about a $50/month perceived overcharge. So you’re saying that $16k machine should be $13k. Fine.

That’s still a $50/month difference: $265 vs. $215. If you work for a company that is so effing stupid they’ll take a person that costs them $10k/month and have them twiddling their thumbs because they won’t spend a few hundred on the equipment they need to do their job, do yourself a favor and quit now. Your company is very poorly run.

Departmental budgets are fine, but if your management can’t get you the resources you need to do your job, again, do yourself a favor: quit now. Your management is ineffective and you work for a poorly run company.

These complaints of, “oh, the sky is falling, its $3k too much, the base should be $3k” are not valid to who use these machines to do their job more efficiently. No CFO worth a damn says, “oh, that $30k machine should be $27k, you can’t have it”.

Even for a hobbyist, if you can’t spend $100 a month on your hobby—get a new job or a new hobby. Or cut out a dinner per month out at a restaurant with your spouse.

The 8-core cylinder is $4k; what did you think a full-blown tower—with a 1400W power supply, 12 DIMM slots capable of 1.5TB and 8 PCIe slots, with quiet, efficient cooling—was going to cost. $3k? In what world does that make any sense?

These complaints remind me of the bitching when Apple released the awesome Mac mini refresh last year.

Yes, the cheapest config went from $500 to $800. But the specs were upgraded from a dual core 15W CPU to a 65W quad-core desktop, the 4GB RAM became 8GB, the HDD (the “spinning rust” that all the “mini fans” bitched about) was replaced with a PCIe SSD, two Thunderbolt 2 ports became four TB3, a $100 10GbE option was added... and the fools in the mini thread bitched and bitched about a “60% increase in the base model”. It’s $300 effing dollars, for a MUCH better machine. $5 a month over a five year life cycle. Good lord.
 

wilhoitm

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
826
972
Just curious. Who are the type of people that use these machines besides people in the film industry?

Augmented Reality (AR)
Virtual Reality (VR)
Mixed Reality
iOS and MacOS Developers
Mobile Game Development
Data Scientists & Researchers
Visualization
Modeling & Simulation
Desktop Publishers ( Magazines / Newspapers / Books )
Artificial Intelligence (AI)
Machine Learning
User Experience (UX)
Universities
Design ( 3D / Concept / Prototyping )
3D Printing
Audio Engineer
Digital Content Creation

The list goes on and on...
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
4,018
5,364
East Coast, United States
And thats my point. Why is the base configuration $6,000? Don't say it's because of cooling.

Simple. The base configuration is $6K because that’s what Apple decided the market could bear. It doesn’t matter what any of us think it should cost. Any of us who think we have the answer are just monsay morning quarterbacking it, me included.

We’ll see if they are wrong or right, and it won’t take very long to know.
 

rochford

macrumors member
Dec 16, 2009
88
51
Bit of a shame that for that price you don’t get a camera, or are conference calls beneath the dignity of this machine? Or just for putting your signature on a Preview PDF.
 

satchmo

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2008
4,976
5,632
Canada
I get this MacPro is for pros who won’t blink an eye at the price.
However, there are levels of ‘pro’. There’s large multi-person game developers and movie studios.
Then there’s small one and two person shops that would love a breakout modular box at the cost of an iMac Pro.
 

R3k

macrumors 68000
Sep 7, 2011
1,509
1,481
Sep 7, 2011
Hmm, id love to have.

Buut, i doubt its that much of a performance increase for Audio work over my 2013 trashcan for the price, which would be a big wallet hit even though I work as a professional. Guessing ill be waiting a few years until Other World Computing start selling used units.
 
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-narcan-

macrumors regular
Sep 29, 2011
175
210
Simple. The base configuration is $6K because that’s what Apple decided the market could bear. It doesn’t matter what any of us think it should cost. Any of us who think we have the answer are just monsay morning quarterbacking it, me included.

Yeah exactly, lot of people think products are priced on how much they cost, but they're actually just priced on how much people will pay...
 
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now i see it

macrumors G4
Jan 2, 2002
10,644
22,238
Am looking forward to benchmarks comparing the $6K 8 core base model to a similar core old cheese grater. Bet the performance difference won't be that much
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
I get this MacPro is for pros who won’t blink an eye at the price.
However, there are levels of ‘pro’. There’s large multi-person game developers and movie studios.
Then there’s small one and two person shops that would love a breakout modular box at the cost of an iMac Pro.
Small one/two person shops are the ideal customers of this Mac Pro. They need to be as efficient as possible, and throwing $100/month extra at compute is an investment with a very high rate of return.
 

macduke

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,142
19,682
I feel like that display is going to be quickly outdated with better tech for much less and probably not that long from now, especially if the rumors of micro LED MacBooks and iPads come to pass.
 

wilhoitm

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
826
972
And thats my point. Why is the base configuration $6,000? Don't say it's because of cooling.

I am really surprised at some of these questions!

So high end servers have always had a low base configuration!

Why?

Because someone or some department using the Mac Pro as a server may not need a high end GPU at all.

Or someone using that machine on a storage area network or with cloud based storage may not need the Mac Pro SSD storage at all.

That is why the machine is configurable. You pick very low level and low power components and then leave it up to the Pros to add or expand what is needed.

High end servers have been sold like this for over 20 years!

What the Pros are paying for are the durability and also big pipes to optionally let each component scale up exponentially but only if needed.

An analogy is why buy a Jeep instead of a cheap Family Car. Because a Jeep can drive over telephone poles and boulders and drive in 6" of mud and not get stuck! Why buy a Sports Car with 450 horse power?

Please no more crying over spilled milk!

Here is the most hilarious or ironic thing! Some iPhones cost as much as the Mac Pro. If you are on the iPhone Upgrade Program where you pay monthly and you have the iPhone 11 Pro Max... Guess what! You are paying over $50 a month year after year just for the phone! Let that bake your noodle! ? That is not including paying your phone plan with AT&T or Verizon or another provider! ?
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,298
3,893
your certainty is failing you - i don't need those specs for that money, i would love for there to be a simpler model(or two) for a more reasonable price for those of us who don't need all the bells and whistles. and apple being a consumer brand(and a great one) should be giving options, and not creating one super high end model and nothing else. and btw this may not have been clear - i'm speaking of the display only.

Defacto they do.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUA2VC/A/lg-ultrafine-4k-display?fnode=7c

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display?fnode=7c

Those are offered as add ons to your purchase order at check out for most Mac products. They are just as "one and only one" input as the XDR ( and previous Apple Display docking stations. )

They cost sustantially less than the XDR. They don't have an Apple logo on the base but they are pragmatically outsourced by Apple. ( LG wouldn't make these if left entirely to their own constraints. ).

After Apple cajoled LG into making these, the aren't going to turn around con cover these with their own product label.
 
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LoganT

macrumors 68020
Jan 9, 2007
2,382
134
Here is the most hilarious or ironic thing! Some iPhones cost as much as the Mac Pro. If you are on the iPhone Upgrade Program where you pay monthly and you have the iPhone 11 Pro Max... Guess what! You are paying over $50 a month year after year just for the phone! Let that bake your noodle! ? That is not including paying your phone plan with AT&T or Verizon or another provider! ?

That is not true. The iPhone Upgrade Program includes Apple Care+ so that might be where you’re getting the extra $50 from. The iPhone Upgrade Program is an interest free loan on an unlocked iPhone. Let’s say the phone you want costs $1548, either you can pay that in full upfront or you can pay it over the course of 24 months. I pay $64.50 a month and after 2 years I fully own the phone so the only difference is when it got paid. Yes, if you’re like me and always like having the latest iPhone than you’re paying more but some people like to lease cars over buying them for the same reason.
 

cycomiko

macrumors 6502a
Oct 14, 2008
554
504
Ah, the old “mid tower post.”

been awhile since I’ve seen one of these.
[automerge]1575836884[/automerge]

Most Apple customers are very clue-full. That’s why they aren’t buying disposable windows machines.


Lol, have you worked at a store selling any tech. Most of hte customers, including apple purchasers, are nowhere near clue-full. Exactly the same folk who would buy disposable windows machines are buying macs.

But keep thinking your part of a 'superior' team.
 
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cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
Lol, have you worked at a store selling any tech. Most of hte customers, including apple purchasers, are nowhere near clue-full. Exactly the same folk who would buy disposable windows machines are buying macs.

But keep thinking your part of a 'superior' team.
I’m not on a “team” unless it’s the team that uses correct grammar and spelling in forum posts.
 

Manzanito

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2010
1,073
1,743
I love debating things on here as much as the next person, but too many of the replies on this thread feel like:

‘I define myself as a prosumer. I should be able to buy Apple high-end products & I can’t afford the Mac Pro thorefore I’m going to complain about it’.

This a machine that’s made for high end professional use. If you don’t absolutely need this machine’s power to deliver your work but would quite like a powerful rig, it’s just not for you.
Unlike your post, that is one of a kind, complaining about other people’s complaints ?
 
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gugy

macrumors 68040
Jan 31, 2005
3,892
5,309
La Jolla, CA
I was going to get a Mac Pro $6000 unit it is worth every penny, when people talk about building their own computer they only look at the processor, or storage or memory. What is the real meat and potatoes is the bus speed and backplane speeds. And apple engineers the heck out of the underling structure. So you might get parts and slap in on a motherboard, the motherboard will never have the speed of the Mac Pro.

I decided to go with a MacBook Pro 16 with 32 gigs of ram, 2TB of storage, which I split for Bootcamp for Windows 10 and the AMD 5500 with 8GB of ram. Got a Razer Core X to use my Vega 64 card that ran in my old Mac Pro before it died. And The whole setup was like $3600 dollars. The nice think about the MacBook Pro it is portable and I can take it to work vs sitting at home not being used. So instead of keep a Mac Pro for 10 years, and upgrading, I decided to get a MacBook Pro and upgrade ever 5 years, so I will get upgraded technology. But still having the option to upgrade the video card in a year or 2 maybe even twice.

This MacBook Pro 16 is awesome and worth every penny. If you are looking for a desktop, that is expandable, tell Apple, I want a Mac mini pro with this kinds of things and feed back to Apple. Apple might grant you your wish next year, That is why you need to use Apple Feedback page to tell them what you want.

Technology has a limited life span so the more time it is not being used, the less value per dollar spent the equipment.

Well maybe when I retire in 10 years I will get a 2030 Mac Pro tower work out of the house from :)
Yep, I was considering the MP as well but I think the MBP 16, maxed out and a XDR display is a solid workstation for me. The MP specked out for my needs will probably cost around $11k and adding the XDR with nano/stand I am getting close to $20k. The MBP +XDR will be $12k. Sounds better IMO.
 

zzzachi

macrumors regular
Jun 16, 2012
231
111
Today I learned that's 2002 again, and people think doubling one number makes the computer twice as fast, in a linear fashion.
And I learned in 2019 people still think its just better and faster and greater because its from Apple.
Not if you surf the web, but if you do rendering a 32 core Threadripper is (yes, approximately) 4 times as fast as the entry level 8 core Xeon. The Threadripper costs 2k, the 28 core Xeon costs 3.5k, the 8 core Xeon costs probably < 1k. If you pay more than 2-3k upgrade for the 28core, you're better off buying and installing it by yourself and I wouldn't be surprised if Apple charges 10k+ for that upgrade.
 
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