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Abazigal

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Jul 18, 2011
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The advantage I was alluding to in terms of Apple Music, is that whilst Spotify's would have to give Apple 30% of its iOS subscription revenue, Apple gets to keep 100% of the money it makes from Apple Music. In practice, Spotify have refused that deal, so aren't able to provide subscriptions through their iOS app, presumably at some detriment to their business.
But that's precisely the whole point, no? If we can agree that there is a benefit from being able to offer subscriptions directly through the app because the take-up rate would be higher compared to if the customer had to manually sign up via the website, then could it not be argued that Apple plays a key role in facilitating this transaction and deserves something for it?

Never mind that Apple collects 15% after the first year, never mind that I feel Spotify's business model is fundamentally flawed and was never sustainable to begin with, never mind that they have been paying 0% on Android (as part of their special deal with Google) and still aren't profitable despite moving to online subscriptions and paying Apple next to nothing...

I get what you are trying to say and yet at the same time, this all feels like a giant misdirect from Spotify. They know their financials are circling the drain (the money they use to pay their expenses today comes from future subscriptions), they know they are going to be in big trouble come 2026 when their 1.3 billion-dolalr debt is due, they know their podcasting and advertising push hasn't exactly paid off, they know the biggest drain on their balance sheet is actually their free tier (which they absolutely refuse to jettison), and blaming Apple for everything (when the majority of their user base is on Android) just seems like a convenient distraction so investors don't start looking too closely at their business model and realise "Hey, have I been dumping my money into a giant Ponzi scheme all this while?!?"

My advice to anybody still with Spotify - get out now.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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The difference, of course, being that Apple isn’t selling you the way Google and Facebook do.

True and Maybe.
I have a pretty good idea what Google does with my data and can compare the effect to me based on what restrictions I request/select on that data.
I have no clue what Apple does with the data they collect from my Apple devices. I do know they collect a lot. They also sell me but AFAIK they sell that data within the Apple world.
 

Abazigal

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Okay. Recommend any other cross platform options?
I am currently trialing YouTube music as part of a recent subscription purge (discontinued Netflix, disney+ and Apple One), but the app's been rough, and I am not a fan of how it tries to mix user-uploaded content with my song search results. Interface is also quite rough, but at least I feel like I am now getting more out of my Youtube Premium subscription. 😛

Though I do find that I don't really listen much to music of late (time has been taken up by podcasts), so I suppose it's a problem that kinda worked itself out.

But I will still say if possible, go all in with the Apple Ecosystem (and that includes Apple Music). 😋
 
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AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
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If we can agree that there is a benefit from being able to offer subscriptions directly through the app
Let’s broaden this just a little bit:
If we can agree that there is a benefit from being able to offer subscriptions directly on the user’s device

then could it not be argued that Apple plays a key role in facilitating this transaction
…then could it not be argued that Apple plays a key role in facilitating this transaction?

Clearly they do, when the user opens up Safari on their iOS device. Their Webkit browser is the only one available on iOS (so far), and without that, the Spotify user couldn’t subscribe to Spotify on his device.

and deserves something for it?
👉🏻 So does Apple deserve a share of everything you buy or subscribe to through Safari on iOS?

Furthermore, even if there were alternative browsers on iOS and the user used one, the fact remains: The transaction is facilitated by the operating system vendor that this browser runs on. And the mobile carrier or broadband ISP that facilitates this transaction by providing the communication channel to conduct it. And the electricity company that provides the power to run them - and the end user’s device.

never mind that I feel Spotify's business model is fundamentally flawed
Apple Music costs the same - and they allegedly pay more to artists than Spotify.
Does this means Apple Music’s business model is flawed?
 
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Abazigal

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Apple Music costs the same - and they allegedly pay more to artists than Spotify.
Does this means Apple Music’s business model is flawed?
It's a common misconception that Apple Music pays out more. Yes, their rates are better, but Spotify generally pays out more in absolute amount because they have more subscribers, and because their free tier kinda skews the average values.

I have thought about this before, and my conclusion is that Apple can afford to pay out more per stream because they don't have a free tier that they need to actively subsidise. I also suspect that because the bulk of their subscriber base use iPhones, this implies they tend to come from more developed countries with higher earning power, so many of them are paying the full $10/month (or whatever the rate is now).

In contrast, Spotify tends to see higher market share in developing countries (ie: countries with higher share of android smartphones), which report lower revenue per user (ie: they earn way less), so they are caught between a rock and a hard place in that they both collect less revenue and pay out more money to labels.

There's also the argument that unlike Spotify, Apple Music doesn't necessarily need to turn a profit ever because (1) Apple has the funds to keep it afloat indefinitely, and (2) Apple Music probably helps sell more hardware like HomePods and AirPods, but I am not really sure how Apple breaks down the earnings and decides whether it's worth it or not. Though I also suspect that simply having the ability to access Apple Music on the vision pro alone (at a time when Spotify isn't available) is worth whatever losses it may be incurring in the short run.

As such, I won't be surprised if in the near future, music streaming becomes an ecosystem feature that is run only by platform owners such as Google, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft, because only these companies have the resources to keep subsidising it indefinitely.
👉🏻 So does Apple deserve a share of everything you buy or subscribe to through Safari on iOS?
It didn't use to work that way, but the answer to your question is "It doesn't matter".

When Epic sued Apple, I warned against this. I predicted that Apple would win the lawsuit, and they would hold up their victory as proof of their unassailable authority over iOS. This would in turn mean that Apple would no further reason to continue making concessions (however small) to developers because the one consequence they were trying to avoid (the lawsuit) is now over and done and the judge all but ruled in Apple's favour. So whatever ambiguity or uncertainty there may have been over how far Apple can legally go with regards to collecting their 30% is gone. The answer is - they are allowed to go all the way, because iOS is their intellectual property.

That Apple is doing the same in the Netherlands (developers who opt to use third party payment options still need to pay Apple 27%) pretty much telegraphed how Apple would react to any attempt by developers to steer users out of the App Store into their own website in a bid to sidestep iTunes and Apple's 30% cut. These legal cases are not standalone, unrelated incidences. They each form a precedence which Apple will then use if and when they need to address the respective lawsuits in the various countries around the world.

I am long past being surprised or shocked by any of this though. As I mentioned before in the other DMA thread, this is who Apple is, and the sooner people accept that, the less shock there will be when decisions like this are made. I won't always get it right in terms of the specifics of how Apple intends to enforce their 30% cut (because amongst other things, I don't have an entire legal team advising me), but in the US at least, the law is pretty much on Apple's side in that Apple retains the right to monetise their IP however they wish, and that much, I can be almost 100% certain when trying to predict how Apple will react to any given scenario.
 

mode11

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Jul 14, 2015
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But that's precisely the whole point, no? If we can agree that there is a benefit from being able to offer subscriptions directly through the app because the take-up rate would be higher compared to if the customer had to manually sign up via the website, then could it not be argued that Apple plays a key role in facilitating this transaction and deserves something for it?

Yes. I've said many times in this thread that Apple deserves something for it. But Apple takes a 'key role in facilitating this transaction' because they're the only ones allowed to do it, not because it's particularly difficult, or because no one else wants to do it. It's not something to be excessively grateful for.


Never mind that Apple collects 15% after the first year, never mind that I feel Spotify's business model is fundamentally flawed [....] My advice to anybody still with Spotify - get out now.

I'm not a booster for Spotify, and don't even use it myself. It's just a famous example, to make the discussion more concrete; the same principle would apply to any other subscription sold via the App Store.
 
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dk001

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I am currently trialing YouTube music as part of a recent subscription purge (discontinued Netflix, disney+ and Apple One), but the app's been rough, and I am not a fan of how it tries to mix user-uploaded content with my song search results. Interface is also quite rough, but at least I feel like I am now getting more out of my Youtube Premium subscription. 😛

Though I do find that I don't really listen much to music of late (time has been taken up by podcasts), so I suppose it's a problem that kinda worked itself out.

But I will still say if possible, go all in with the Apple Ecosystem (and that includes Apple Music). 😋

Thx!
I have YT Premium and get YTM as part of the package. Sometimes the recommended selection is a bit odd.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
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Yes. I've said many times in this thread that Apple deserves something for it. But Apple takes a 'key role in facilitating this transaction' because they're the only ones allowed to do it, not because it's particularly difficult, or because no one else wants to do it. It's not something to be excessively grateful for.


I have become so tired of the Apple lock in (too bad, so sad, do it my way) that unless the only way to get something is via the App Store, I will use pretty much any other means to procure what I need/want.
Android, Linus, Windows, MacOS …. Been doing it for a number of years now.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
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OK, so you:

Assume that iPhone sales already cover Apple's iOS development and App Store costs.

AND

That Apple Music has higher costs than rivals such as Spotify because AM has to partly finance iOS development / App Store costs.

AND

That Apple should still charge 30% commission on Spotify subscriptions, yet reject the idea that Apple should simply maximise profits.

Some of these seem mutually exclusive.
That's because you are misrepresenting what I said. I don't agree with your second or third claim in this list.

To the price of things? So we're back to the idea that Apple should simply maximise profits. Fair enough, that's business 101, but you seem to bristle at this suggestion elsewhere.
That's a false dichotomy. I don't believe that their only concern is or should be maximizing profits in deciding what they charge developers. They should balance developer support with terms and pricing to create a vibrant and diverse selection of apps.

You think any business would like to lose 2/3 of its revenue?
No. But I think businesses are willing to spend a percentage of their revenue to increase their overall profitability.

C'mon, there's shades here. Accounting can be looked at from all sorts of perspectives. It's not perjury if Apple make a claim about the way they see it.
What are you arguing here? Apple is literally the only authority on what they are charging for. Unless they are lying in court, then there isn't any counter-authority.

No.

That's the point: Apple's 30% commission has always been a "store fee" for Apple acting as an agent or "commissionaire for the marketing and delivery of the Licensed Applications to end-users".

"Apple shall be entitled to the following commissions in consideration for its services as Your agent and/or commissionaire under this Schedule 2:

(a) For sales of Licensed Applications to End-Users, Apple shall be entitled to a commission equal to thirty percent (30%) of all prices payable by each End-User"


👉 Commission on sales. Not platform fee. That's what their developer agreement clearly says.
We've already had this conversation. Again, I'm not interested in word games. A transaction can be both of commission and a platform fee. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Picking some of the biggest, most well-known services that offer handling sales of downloaded software applications isn't cherry-picking.

Referring to limited-use gaming console platforms or brick & mortar stores is comparing apples to oranges.
Again, cherry-picking a few store fees when I asked about platform fees is disingenuous.

Apple Music costs the same - and they allegedly pay more to artists than Spotify.
Does this means Apple Music’s business model is flawed?
No. Apple simply pays more because they don't offer the number of free streams that Spotify does. And they've made a number of investments in software and hardware that make their model more lucrative.
 

AlastorKatriona

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So you think that it’s perfectly fine that dev A releases their free app on the Apple AppStore and the don’t get to pay anything at all aside the yearly dev fee, no matter how successful the app is; but dev B puts their free app on a perfectly legal secondary AppStore, pays the same developer fee as dev A, but ends up owing Apple potentially millions of dollars in money that they haven’t even made, should the dream become a reality and the app be a success?

You may say ‘just be dev A’ - but aside that not being the spirit of the law, that’s also having to bow to Apples misguided moral compass and having to abide what they think you should be allowed to consume. Like my vape app that I’m not ‘allowed’ to have on iOS. After all Apple says it’s bad for me so no beans.

That’s all ok in your book?
That's perfectly OK in my book. If your free app has any utility or value to the world whatsoever, find a way to monetize it. You'll have no problem paying the core technology fee if you monetize it. If isn't valuable enough to monetize, then it was a waste of you time to start with. Turn it into web page and be done.
 

AppliedMicro

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and my conclusion is that Apple can afford to pay out more per stream because they don't have a free tier that they need to actively subsidise
Well, Spotify can get rid of that free tier anytime, if it saves them money.
Apple Music doesn't necessarily need to turn a profit ever because (1) Apple has the funds to keep it afloat indefinitely, and (2) Apple Music probably helps sell more hardware like HomePods and AirPods
…and they have a better cost structure in
1) scale from other App Store transaction
2) lower customer acquisition costs. (As someone like me, who uses Apple‘s „Music“ app and AirPods - but not Apple Music - has been pestering me for years about signing up for a free Apple Music trial. Even in System Settings. I‘m not signing up out of spite at this point)
3) not paying or internally absorbing platform fees/commission

As such, I won't be surprised if in the near future, music streaming becomes an ecosystem feature that is run only by platform owners such as Google, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft, because only these companies have the resources to keep subsidising it indefinitely.
…unless governments untie it.

It is really a dystopian world you’re painting there, where three or four big U.S. platform owners control everyone and everything. And one thing I‘m quite certain: it will not foster innovation.
When Epic sued Apple, I warned against this. I predicted that Apple would win the lawsuit, and they would hold up their victory as proof of their unassailable authority over iOS
I agree - but actually welcome it in a way. Because on the other hand, it underscores the need for proactive and specific regulation - rather than merely reactive regulation through existing antitrust/competition law.

could it not be argued that Apple plays a key role in facilitating this transaction and deserves something for it?
I've said many times in this thread that Apple deserves something for it
👉🏻The line has to be drawn somewhere.

And I‘m drawing it when the Spotify app has been delivered to the user‘s device.
Once the user uses that app, it‘s because he likes the Spotify or Netflix app and its contents - it’s between him and Spotify/Netflix at this point. Not Apple.
 

vantelimus

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Feb 16, 2013
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True and Maybe.
I have a pretty good idea what Google does with my data and can compare the effect to me based on what restrictions I request/select on that data.
I have no clue what Apple does with the data they collect from my Apple devices. I do know they collect a lot. They also sell me but AFAIK they sell that data within the Apple world.
You only have a partial idea what of Google collects and how it consolidates information about you from across all of your android devices, your use of the search engine, google search/maps/etc., your Nest products, and your general web browsing (DoubleClick and Google Analytics tracking tags are everywhere). That information from tracking tags is also owned by the websites you visit. Those websites sell that info to other electronic dossier companies which consolidate information from across many sources.

You infer some of what is being collected because you are more vigilant and tuned in than the general public, who still get excited to receive email from Nigerian princes.

Apple, on the other hand, collects information about you to present back to you (e.g., health, screen time, location, etc.) through its apps. Safari has privacy protections that obscure information and disable cross-site tracking. The iPhone allows you to prevent any surreptitious tracking done by apps (turn off tracking in Settings>Privacy&Security>Tracking and apps can't even ask for your permission).

Apple is not selling your data to third-parties. The only way Apple "sells" you is by using data it has about you to present ads within their own products (like the App Store). If you don't like that. You can turn it off personalized ads from Apple (Settings>Privacy&Security>Apple Advertising).

Personally, I stay within the Apple environment. I avoid Google products like the plague (I was in engineering management in the ads organization there, so I know some of what they do that I don't want them doing with my data). And I make sure my Safari settings are set to obscure who I am, including using private browsing on top of the other privacy features. Facebook and Amazon are still vexing, so I limit my exposure to them... which becomes easier the more Facebook becomes a useless ad-filled clone of Pennysaver.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
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You only have a partial idea what of Google collects and how it consolidates information about you from across all of your android devices, your use of the search engine, google search/maps/etc., your Nest products, and your general web browsing (DoubleClick and Google Analytics tracking tags are everywhere). That information from tracking tags is also owned by the websites you visit. Those websites sell that info to other electronic dossier companies which consolidate information from across many sources.

You infer some of what is being collected because you are more vigilant and tuned in than the general public, who still get excited to receive email from Nigerian princes.

Apple, on the other hand, collects information about you to present back to you (e.g., health, screen time, location, etc.) through its apps. Safari has privacy protections that obscure information and disable cross-site tracking. The iPhone allows you to prevent any surreptitious tracking done by apps (turn off tracking in Settings>Privacy&Security>Tracking and apps can't even ask for your permission).

Apple is not selling your data to third-parties. The only way Apple "sells" you is by using data it has about you to present ads within their own products (like the App Store). If you don't like that. You can turn it off personalized ads from Apple (Settings>Privacy&Security>Apple Advertising).

Personally, I stay within the Apple environment. I avoid Google products like the plague (I was in engineering management in the ads organization there, so I know some of what they do that I don't want them doing with my data). And I make sure my Safari settings are set to obscure who I am, including using private browsing on top of the other privacy features. Facebook and Amazon are still vexing, so I limit my exposure to them... which becomes easier the more Facebook becomes a useless ad-filled clone of Pennysaver.

In part I agree. However, what is collected and what is done with my data, I know far more what Google does with it than what Apple does. If you think ads are it, wow. I treat Apple just like Google.

Apple may protect me from what others collect, maybe, however that doesn’t affect what they collect. As Apple lawyers stated, if you use a core Apple app, you have no expectation of privacy. :oops: Apple refuses to say just what they do with your data. They pretty much collect everything. Apple Wall of Sucking Silence.

At this stage I control or prevent as much as I can. As stated before, I trust neither. Act accordingly.
 
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AppliedMicro

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We've already had this conversation. Again, I'm not interested in word games. A transaction can be both of commission and a platform fee. They aren't mutually exclusive.
You don‘t get to cherry-pick the „type of fee it supposedly is“ as it suits your argument when there are written legal terms that define what it is for.

It is also objectively clear that Apple charges for paid transactions conducted through them - not (except the yearly developer fee) for access or use to the platform.
You're arguing semantics here.
No - it's very relevant.

You, on the other hand, are not providing any argument at all, by accusing others of "arguing semantics" or "word games" (especially while having the nerve to distinguish between "platform fees" and "store fees" yourself).

Because Apple pays for the platform it runs on and Spotify does not.
Again, Apple doesn't keep 100%. The pay more for the platform that Spotify would by paying 30%
No, they aren't "merely hosting the app". That's a disingenuous argument. Apple provides and invests in improving a platform and developer support.
Apple Platform Expenses: Billions
Spotify Platform Expenses: 15-30% of Revenue of memberships initiated through the iOS app
Apple spends billions on building a platform. Spotify would pay a tiny fraction of that. How is Apple at an advantage

In a nutshell, your argument goes: "Apple pays billions for a whole platform, an operating system, developer tools and support etc., payment and streaming infrastructure for music - while Spotify only pays for streaming infrastructure."

👉 That's incredibly disingenuous and misleading. It's not even apples to oranges - it's comparing apples to elephants.

Apple Music is a separate service from iOS. It doesn't require iOS (as evidenced by it being available on Android).
Neither does iOS require Apple Music.

I still haven't seen a convincing argument over why this is an unfair advantage. Apple spends billions on building a platform. Spotify would pay a tiny fraction of that.
You're literally comparing
- company A investing "billions" on all kinds of stuff, 99% of it wholly unrelated to music streaming)
vs.
- company B spending only a fraction of that money, all of it for only providing one service (music streaming).

Spotify's only revenue is from the music streaming service (subscription revenue and ads, basically).
While Apple makes hundreds of billions of revenue that's not part of their streaming service - first and foremost device sales.

You claimed that Apple keeps 100% of the revenue from Apple Music. That's obviously nonsense. They have expenses to maintain the platform.
Apple's iOS platform is self-sustained by device sales. It doesn't need any expenses covered by Apple Music.

How is Apple at an advantage?
It is at an advantage in providing a streaming service.

Again, Apple doesn't keep 100%
Apple keep 100% of the revenue from Apple Music to cover the costs of running their music streaming service (and profit from Apple Music).

While Spotify get to keep 70% to cover the costs of their music streaming services (and their profit) - and 30% go to Apple.

👉 That's Apple's advantage.
 
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Abazigal

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…unless governments untie it.

It is really a dystopian world you’re painting there, where three or four big U.S. platform owners control everyone and everything. And one thing I‘m quite certain: it will not foster innovation.

The larger point I was trying to make is that services like music and video streaming are still not financially viable, they may never be, and it may not be possible to run them as a standalone company in the future.

So the only way you may get a music streaming service in the future is if a company like Apple or Amazon is willing to keep subsiding a loss-making venture indefinitely.
 

Abazigal

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Jul 18, 2011
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It is also objectively clear that Apple charges for paid transactions conducted through them - not (except the yearly developer fee) for access or use to the platform.
It's actually for both (as Apple clarified in their trial with Epic). It's also evident in how they have broken down their cost structure in order to comply with the DMA (the cut is reduced from 30% to 20% + 50cent platform fee).

IAP is how Apple charges developers a commission for use of their IP. They just choose to do so for ease of collection of money, even if it means some developers end up paying nothing (because their apps aren't paid) and some end up paying more (because their apps are either paid, subscription-based or riddled with IAPs).
 

AppliedMicro

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It's actually for both (as Apple clarified in their trial with Epic).
I wouldn’t say „actually“ - because the contract say otherwise.
But that‘s certainly what they claimed during the trial.

It‘s more a retcon though (when Jobs introduced the iPhone, there was no indication of them charging for access. It was web apps).

Rules, explanations and new (Core Technology Fees) fees - they‘re basically making making it all up as the legal/regulatory environment changes. And as it fits their goal: of charging money.

Maybe it doesn’t really matter what the fees used to be called or are called today - what matters is their economic impact.

They just choose to do so for ease of collection of money
Agree - and according to the level of leverage they have over the competition (less so if developer can circumvent Apple by having web apps/stores instead).
 

vantelimus

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Feb 16, 2013
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It is really a dystopian world you’re painting there, where three or four big U.S. platform owners control everyone and everything. And one thing I‘m quite certain: it will not foster innovation.
It is a principle of marketing and behavioral economics that people don’t want more than two or three choices in any category of product they wish to purchase. It is also of the case that people want to make decisions only once. This is why In most markets, there are only two or three big players.

In general, people don’t want innovation. They don’t want change. They want consistency.
 

mode11

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It is a principle of marketing and behavioral economics that people don’t want more than two or three choices in any category of product they wish to purchase. It is also of the case that people want to make decisions only once. This is why In most markets, there are only two or three big players.

In general, people don’t want innovation. They don’t want change. They want consistency.

People don't want to buy into the wrong standard. That's why most people wait for a leader to emerge (VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, Windows, PlayStation etc.) before taking the plunge. They don't want to waste money backing the wrong horse.

It's not that people want the same 3 or 4 companies to sell everything.
 

vantelimus

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Feb 16, 2013
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People don't want to buy into the wrong standard. That's why most people wait for a leader to emerge (VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, Windows, PlayStation etc.) before taking the plunge. They don't want to waste money backing the wrong horse.
You can dislike what the science says. Making choices is causes mental fatigue. Marketing research has established scientifically that people faced with too much choice are far less likely to buy. Behavioral marketing has established that three choices appears to be optimal.

It's not that people want the same 3 or 4 companies to sell everything.
That's why Amazon doesn't dominate online e-commerce, right?

Do you have 9 or 10 large supermarket chains and drug store chains all competing for business in your area? You likely have 2 or 3 major chains and 2 or 3 "independents". In any developed market segment, the chances are that there will be only 2 or 3 major competitors.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
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You can dislike what the science says. Making choices is causes mental fatigue. Marketing research has established scientifically that people faced with too much choice are far less likely to buy. Behavioral marketing has established that three choices appears to be optimal.


That's why Amazon doesn't dominate online e-commerce, right?

Do you have 9 or 10 large supermarket chains and drug store chains all competing for business in your area? You likely have 2 or 3 major chains and 2 or 3 "independents". In any developed market segment, the chances are that there will be only 2 or 3 major competitors.

Color me confused.

1. Most people buy based on marketed ads. TV, Cable, Internet, Magazines, Mail, etc…
2. Amazon dominates due to its commerce handling model. For sellers, there is Amazon and thousands of other third parties that utilize Amazon.
3. I wish! If Kroger Co. buys Albertsons, we will have one major grocer. Currently we have two. Several locations but all are owned by Kroger or Albertsons. Everything else was bought out by these two over the years.
 

Abazigal

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While Spotify get to keep 70% to cover the costs of their music streaming services (and their profit) - and 30% go to Apple.
Which hasn't applied to Spotify in a very long time. iOS users are no longer allowed to subscribe within the app. They have to do so via their website, of which Spotify keeps 100%.

It's also worth noting that Spotify has more android than iOS users, of which they too get to keep 100% thanks to an under-the-table deal with Google. So there's a very weird irony where Spotify is accusing Apple is sucking 30% of revenue from them, while also apparently having moved paying customers away from this, to the point where they are not actually paying Apple anything (there may still be a small number of iOS subscribers paying via iTunes, but I suspect they are a rounding error at this point).

I suppose Spotify may have a point in that if users were allowed to subscribe directly through their app without having to pay Apple anything, they might have an easier time converting customers from the free tier or luring them away from Apple Music. But as it stands, that particular criticism of theirs hasn't been valid in years.
 

AppliedMicro

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Aug 17, 2008
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Which hasn't applied to Spotify in a very long time
…if they were offering in-app subscription, yes. That was the scenario I was referring to.

I suppose Spotify may have a point in that if users were allowed to subscribe directly through their app without having to pay Apple anything, they might have an easier time converting customers from the free tier or luring them away from Apple Music
Not only that. It’s literally impossible to set up and use an iOS/iPadOS and the popular Apple AirPods without being prompted multiple times - in the Setting and Music apps to sign up for an Apple Music trial. While at the same time Apple prohibits Spotify from even referring to their web site for offers and promotions in the Spotify app.
 
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treacher

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Apple is only trying to protect their users as much as possible; their heart is in the right place. It may be difficult to balance this with certain regulations, but they are making an honest effort.
 
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