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JamesHolden

Cancelled
Dec 17, 2022
727
1,131
Most apps pull some kind of location data. Google is the worst offender.
Definitely. I have a friend who works in this field and he says a lot of apps on the App Store sell all kinds of data. That’s one of the reasons I’m a bit suspicious of Apple’s privacy marketing. If they really cared about privacy, they wouldn’t allow any apps to collect or sell anything. My friend says a lot of the weather apps are really bad when it comes to privacy. He said the weather channel is by far the worst when it comes to selling location data. Personally I don’t really trust anything any of these companies say, including Apple. The privacy ship sailed a looooong time ago.
 

erikkfi

macrumors 68000
May 19, 2017
1,689
7,947
This is a weird thing to unambiguously celebrate. Sure, it's good that Apple isn't tracking me and sending my data to the NSA 24/7 just for kicks, but what if Danelo Cavalcante had had an iPhone on him? Would've been nice if Apple could assist law enforcement in narrow cases like that, right?

Is there anyone out there who can kinda see this both ways? Just me?
 
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JamesHolden

Cancelled
Dec 17, 2022
727
1,131
This is a weird thing to unambiguously celebrate. Sure, it's good that Apple isn't tracking me and sending my data to the NSA 24/7 just for kicks, but what if Danelo Cavalcante had had an iPhone on him? Would've been nice if Apple could assist law enforcement in narrow cases like that, right?

Is there anyone out there who can kinda see this both ways? Just me?
I think most people can see it both ways. The problem is, how do you not collect data but also collect it for when it might be lifesaving? We might all be able to see it both ways, but we can’t have it both ways.
 

maternidad

macrumors regular
Mar 18, 2021
238
327
What about “significant locations”?

Settings > Privacy > Location Services > System Services > Significant Locations

The note says it’s ”end-to-end encrypted and cannot be read by apple”. So… if this is enabled, Apple could be storing location data on your behalf that they allegedly cannot read.

Unreadable data is not the same thing as “Apple does not have any data to provide in response to geofence requests.”
Yes, it is the same thing. That ‘unreadable data’ is unreadable, as you put it. There’s nothing that law enforcement can do with it. I don’t see your point.
 
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maternidad

macrumors regular
Mar 18, 2021
238
327
Yall really believe this??
lol Apple & all these corporations all with the US corporation I mean Gov
Yes. Why would they lie? If there’s anything misleading about this it’s definitely by omission. Outright making a false statement seems like a weird liability, especially in this kind of document that few people are interested in and even fewer will read.
 

crawfish963

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2010
933
1,637
Texas
For full phone access, as if they had the passcode? I'd heard that as long as you have a passcode, and have touch/face ID disabled, they can't force you to share your passcode and thus they can't get in.

This is a weird thing to unambiguously celebrate. Sure, it's good that Apple isn't tracking me and sending my data to the NSA 24/7 just for kicks, but what if Danelo Cavalcante had had an iPhone on him? Would've been nice if Apple could assist law enforcement in narrow cases like that, right?

Is there anyone out there who can kinda see this both ways? Just me?
In this scenario, law enforcement could quickly and easily get a warrant to track his location via cell carriers. We have to always balance the line between government overreach and privacy.
 

DailySlow

macrumors 6502a
Aug 5, 2015
808
390
NOVA
All I have to say on this is that if Face ID is disabled, and you have a nice fat alphanumeric key code, that code is your intellectual property and you do not have to give it up. Of course, especially at a border, your phone can be seized. Hell, you might even get it back someday. If you have Face ID activated to unlock phone, you can be forced to stick your face there and unlock phone and same goes with older Touch ID. So, in short, if you will be in an insecure situation, shot off Face ID Unlock Phone option.
 
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Ahheck01

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2006
479
42
Incorrect. There are tools that can instantly access the device as long as the device is in what is called "after first unlock" or AFU mode. There are tools that can brute force the device to obtain the passcode. Some phones can be accessed in seconds. Some take months. Using an alpha-numeric passcode pretty much guarantees your phone will take millions of years to unlock unless the passcode is common. Give a search to AFU and BFU mode.

As far as access, once the device is accessed, the entire phone is fair game. Even things like Snapchat's "My Eyes Only" can be obtained easily without the passcode for that part of the Snapchat application.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain. So when in doubt, turn the phone off.

Any insights on equivalent vulnerabilities to a Mac with a long password and FileVault turned on?
 

Robert.Walter

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2012
3,098
4,403
Not so much that they are happy to. They have to as geofence requests require a search warrant. But sometimes cell providers object to large geofence areas with tens of thousands of devices within the zone.


Source: am retired detective who wrote/served these warrants

Why would they object? Is it because they can’t charge for it? After all it’s no more effort, it’s just lines of data for them to send.
 

TheDailyApple

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2019
660
2,898
Oh yeah, and more. Data that's illegal for law enforcement to collect is legal for corporations to collect and sell to LEOs. 🙃
LE needs people's permission take their data without a search warrant. And by the time they have enough on someone for that, it's too late to go back and track them. However, people click "agree" on terms and conditions that give companies permission to collect their data. And now when LE has reason to get a search warrant there is already a treasure trove of data to retrieve.

LE and corporations have a similar right to random peoples information: none. But anyone can give permission for their data to be collected, and people readily give it to corporations that offer something in exchange.
 

crawfish963

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2010
933
1,637
Texas
Why would they object? Is it because they can’t charge for it? After all it’s no more effort, it’s just lines of data for them to send.
Some of those requests require an unreasonable amount of manpower and thus they object to the warrant being too broad. They require a smaller time frame or location data.
 

crawfish963

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2010
933
1,637
Texas
I appreciate you taking the time to explain. So when in doubt, turn the phone off.

Any insights on equivalent vulnerabilities to a Mac with a long password and FileVault turned on?
Not a problem. I'm a firm believer in law enforcement playing by the rules (Constitution) when doing their jobs. I taught 4th Amendment issues in the academy and specialized in electronic search law.

If the phone is off it would put the phone into AFU mode, making access much more difficult. Hitting your power button 5 times to require a passcode would do the same. FileVault and a long password are excellent defenses. Most LE consider FileVaulted Macs to be a lost cause. I am of course only aware of what tools could do when I left the business in March of this year and that's not accounting for secret squirrel tools that the NSA and others possess that average law enforcement are not aware of.

I do know there are some scary tools coming down the pipe. Things like bluetooth vulnerabilities and tools that I'm sure Apple will need to counter.
 
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cyanite

macrumors 6502
Sep 28, 2015
328
414
Unreadable data is not the same thing as “Apple does not have any data to provide in response to geofence requests.”
It’s materially the same.

They can do this even with an iPhone? Even without the passcode?
Unknown, depending on hardware and iOS. Doing so will be via exploits, and those are patched over time. New ones sometimes show up and are used.

Yes

Edit: it’s more nuanced that that but in many cases yes they can. You can do things to make it more difficult.
This is speculation, as for current devices and iOS.

Incorrect. There are tools that can instantly access the device as long as the device is in what is called "before first unlock" or BFU mode. There are tools that can brute force the device to obtain the passcode.
Speculation, see above. This has definitely been done in the past.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain. So when in doubt, turn the phone off.
Keep in mind that the other person is speculating. We don’t have that information. Apple isn’t interested in such access, obviously, so the means used to get it are closed with updates.
 

dominiongamma

macrumors 68020
Oct 19, 2014
2,267
4,986
Phoenix. AZ
It’s great to have confirmation that Apple does not collect this data. However, I’m sure the cell service providers are more than happy to turn it over, so I’m not sure it matters whether Apple collects it or not.
T-Mobile would be first in line with the security breaches always happening
 

laptech

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2013
3,582
3,986
Earth
Wording matters, there is a difference between the words 'receiving' and 'collecting'. I have no doubt Apple servers 'receive' everything from an iphone, Apple just chose not to do anything with certain aspects of it. It would be very naïve of people to take Apple at it's word.
 
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