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Naraxus

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2016
2,104
8,545
Any side loading, and all app will eventually require side loading. Which is bad for the consumer experience. Some people won’t understand side loading or why they can’t find their apps any more or some will just not want to because of security reasons. But the problem is once side loading is available all the bigger companies go with side loading and the user is forced to go that way.
You mean like people have been doing on Macs & PCs for decades now?
 

Naraxus

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2016
2,104
8,545
Apple has some nerve attending privacy conferences. Their stance on privacy is finally being seen for the complete marketing ******** it always was. Apple's attempt to slip in spyware to iOS (God knows what they're doing on the rest of their OSs) is where their claims of privacy went out the window.

Despite Tim's complete chutzpah the cat is out of the bag. It's about money for Apple. It always has been.

They can talk a good game but when they employ slave labor, pay bribes to the CCP, put their customer data on governemnt servers, help to shut down dissent whenever they can and do everything they can to please their Chinese masters they can take their claims of "respecting user privacy" and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
 

nastysailboat

Cancelled
May 7, 2021
306
259
You mean like people have been doing on Macs & PCs for decades now?
Not quite. The ease of use is what draws a lot of people to the iPhone I believe, it's also the reason why people ditch the computer for an iPad, because for a lot of people it's easier. This ease of use goes away when people have to side load. I think side loading could be done but I think it will come at the cost of the ease of use these consumers have come to love. If there were a way to make it so the customer had the choice I think this could be really beneficial.

A way I think it could be done:
Let's take Netflix for instance. I think if there could be a system where the user got to choose what App Store they wanted to download from be that side load, a third party, or the App Store they wanted to manage their sub that would be more beneficial to the consumer. I understand it's difficult for some companies to pay App Store fees maybe a company like Netflix could offer earlier releases for users that side load and sub through Netflix or something like that or maybe users could get a dismissible pop up on the first launch that explains that if you want to support Netflix the best way is to side load or something like that. To much difference between apps could also cause a problem as well.
 

nastysailboat

Cancelled
May 7, 2021
306
259
Apple has some nerve attending privacy conferences. Their stance on privacy is finally being seen for the complete marketing ******** it always was. Apple's attempt to slip in spyware to iOS (God knows what they're doing on the rest of their OSs) is where their claims of privacy went out the window.

Despite Tim's complete chutzpah the cat is out of the bag. It's about money for Apple. It always has been.

They can talk a good game but when they employ slave labor, pay bribes to the CCP, put their customer data on governemnt servers, help to shut down dissent whenever they can and do everything they can to please their Chinese masters they can take their claims of "respecting user privacy" and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
I don't really see how employing slave labor is a privacy thing but ok. It seems like your beef is more with the Chinese government.
 
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robco74

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
509
944
I don't get why they just don't make you go through a process to enable Sideloading. Like you must go into a menu then click a toggle than accept an agreement that you're taking your own chances sideloading apps, and any results of that are on you and Apples not liable.

I feel a majority of people will still use the app store out of ignorance to how sideloading works or convenience.
If the majority of people will still use the App Store, as the vast majority of Android users still use the Play Store, then why force Apple to expend considerable resources to enable it?

Android allows sideloading. Epic tried that route with Fortnite, and failed. They maintain that creating any friction whatsoever, is anticompetitive. This is less about empowering users and more about allowing developers to piggyback not only on Apple's IP, but their goodwill with customers as well.

I would feel a little better about it if there were a significant number of users, rather than developer lobbying groups like CAF, pushing for this. Or if there were corresponding regulations proposed that would set minimum standards for developers that would guarantee users receive at least some of the protections provided by Apple and Google in the App Store and Play Store.

Right now it's asking Apple to dedicate substantial resources for something that even most Android users don't do, even though they have been able to for well over a decade.
 
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Naraxus

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2016
2,104
8,545
I don't really see how employing slave labor is a privacy thing but ok. It seems like your beef is more with the Chinese government.
Actually my issue is with both. The Chinese Communist Party for being in existence and Apple for enabling them to continue.

To be fair though, it's not just exclusively Apple. This is an issue for MANY MANY companies
 

MNGR

Contributor
Sep 17, 2019
304
418
Any side loading, and all app will eventually require side loading. Which is bad for the consumer experience. Some people won’t understand side loading or why they can’t find their apps any more or some will just not want to because of security reasons. But the problem is once side loading is available all the bigger companies go with side loading and the user is forced to go that way.
And when something goes wrong who will they hold responsible? You know it will be Apple?
Can’t call Ghostbusters can they??
 

VulchR

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2009
3,401
14,286
Scotland
I don't get why they just don't make you go through a process to enable Sideloading. Like you must go into a menu then click a toggle than accept an agreement that you're taking your own chances sideloading apps, and any results of that are on you and Apples not liable.

I feel a majority of people will still use the app store out of ignorance to how sideloading works or convenience.
Because if app developers abandon the App Store, then we will have to choose between using apps from the Wild West or not using them at all. This will actually reduce choice. If people want to side-load from a variety of sources, then by all means buy Android or use some other ecosystem for which you have a reasonable expectation of not having a walled garden.

Anyway, on my part I am waiting for Apple to kill off the local CSAM scanning on iPhones before I buy any more products from them. Perhaps this privacy conference will address this proposed crass invasion of privacy that will be inevitably misused.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,684
15,033
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
Any side loading, and all app will eventually require side loading. Which is bad for the consumer experience. Some people won’t understand side loading or why they can’t find their apps any more or some will just not want to because of security reasons. But the problem is once side loading is available all the bigger companies go with side loading and the user is forced to go that way.

Sorry but I have to ask, Where do you get these ideas?
If your post was even remotely factual all you have to do is look at Android (the versions that allow sideloading) to see how untrue your statement is AND that is assuming that it is Apple's solution.
 

MacsRgr8

macrumors G3
Sep 8, 2002
8,288
1,781
The Netherlands
Not quite. The ease of use is what draws a lot of people to the iPhone I believe, it's also the reason why people ditch the computer for an iPad, because for a lot of people it's easier. This ease of use goes away when people have to side load. I think side loading could be done but I think it will come at the cost of the ease of use these consumers have come to love. If there were a way to make it so the customer had the choice I think this could be really beneficial.

I think what he means is on macOS you can enable only "allow from App Store", and make it optional to allow "alternative methods", which feels like a good compromise.
Not sure what the default option is though.

I can see that Apple could make it default that you can only download apps from App Store on macOS and iOS, but that the option will be made available to allow downloads from "Alternate Sources", but only after accepting the agreement and getting warned twice on the risks.
And when you attempt to install certain app through alternative methods, get warned again on the risks.

Kinda like people jailbreaking and installing apps via Cydia. It's not difficult, but more > 90% of users... they won't touch it as the workflow gives you the feeling of "insecurity".
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
5,598
5,950
I don't get why they just don't make you go through a process to enable Sideloading. Like you must go into a menu then click a toggle than accept an agreement that you're taking your own chances sideloading apps, and any results of that are on you and Apples not liable.

I feel a majority of people will still use the app store out of ignorance to how sideloading works or convenience.
A process doesn’t solve all the issues. It only solves one issue of users accidentally sideloading. It doesn’t solve the issue of users being step by step instructed to sideload by malicious third parties. And it doesn’t solve the issue of developers being able to make their apps only available outside the App Store, decreasing the availability of apps for users who only want to use apps from the App Store. Those people are whom the iPhone is marketed toward.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,311
24,047
Gotta be in it to win it
I think he’s getting at the old thing of not being able to change your default search in safari to something other than google. Although I’m not to sure what it matters as you have several options to switch the default to. Or you could set a shortcut to go to a different one if you really want a weird one.
Yep. It's a strawman, but to each their own.
 
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subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
5,598
5,950
I wonder what someone who doesn’t believe Apple cares about privacy thinks Jane Horvath does in her office all day. Facebook? ?
 

jimbobb24

macrumors 68040
Jun 6, 2005
3,356
5,385
Their head of privacy is a lawyer not a programmer? I think that is just the wrong approach all the way around.
 
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sideshowuniqueuser

macrumors 68030
Mar 20, 2016
2,863
2,874
I don't get why they just don't make you go through a process to enable Sideloading. Like you must go into a menu then click a toggle than accept an agreement that you're taking your own chances sideloading apps, and any results of that are on you and Apples not liable.

I feel a majority of people will still use the app store out of ignorance to how sideloading works or convenience.
Because profits.
 

Robert.Walter

macrumors 68040
Jul 10, 2012
3,099
4,408
All I want to hear from her is “we have encrypted all iCloud content” and have scrapped the CSAM intrusion program.

Absent these, any privacy conferences are a bit of a joke.
 
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nastysailboat

Cancelled
May 7, 2021
306
259
I think what he means is on macOS you can enable only "allow from App Store", and make it optional to allow "alternative methods", which feels like a good compromise.
Not sure what the default option is though.

I can see that Apple could make it default that you can only download apps from App Store on macOS and iOS, but that the option will be made available to allow downloads from "Alternate Sources", but only after accepting the agreement and getting warned twice on the risks.
And when you attempt to install certain app through alternative methods, get warned again on the risks.

Kinda like people jailbreaking and installing apps via Cydia. It's not difficult, but more > 90% of users... they won't touch it as the workflow gives you the feeling of "insecurity".
The default on Mac is App Store and trusted developers I believe.

I just see the majority of bigger apps leaving and it being like the current streaming mess we have now. Where you need different sub and different accounts and to enter your payment info in a million times. Not to mention the difficulty for the basic user.

I’m not saying apple couldn’t do it I’m saying it would be a security risk and it wouldn’t actually be any better for the basic iPhone user. I get us nerds understand the iPhone but I don’t think we’re the majority.
 

nastysailboat

Cancelled
May 7, 2021
306
259
Actually my issue is with both. The Chinese Communist Party for being in existence and Apple for enabling them to continue.

To be fair though, it's not just exclusively Apple. This is an issue for MANY MANY companies
I mean I don’t know if apple not doing business with China is gonna stop China. They will just make something else like PlayStation.
 
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