Resolved Apple's Pulse Ox (Blood O2) app is junk?

[PinkyMacGodess]

I had some high hopes for that feature, I admit. I have a Masimo pulse ox that I have used quite a bit over the past 2 years, but the problem is where is it, and batteries, so the Apple Watch seemed like a win. It's on the watch!

Except it's not...

I can't get it to work most of the time. My wrist has to be practically completely immobile to get it to work, and the Masimo works perfectly during a hard furious bike ride. I've tried the AW app during a bike ride on a stationary trainer, and it usually bombs out with an error. Sitting on the toilet one night, just me breathing, and heart beating tripped it up once.

It's almost useless. I feel like I have been lied to by Apple about that feature. If Masimo can do it, what's up with the AW?

Does it work better for other people? I'm disappointed. I guess I'll keep the Masimo for a while more. Keeping it in reach is not what I thought I'd be doing after the latest Apple Watch.

 

[KBJ55]

I just checked mine and then compared it to a Zacurate 500DL Pro and the readings were identical. YMMV.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I just checked mine and then compared it to a Zacurate 500DL Pro and the readings were identical. YMMV.

It's not the the consistency that I am disappointed with, it's the idea that I have to be nearly completely inert, immobile, catatonic to get it to finish testing. Sometimes it bombs immediately, sometimes it bombs literally in the last seconds of the 15 second cycle. The Masimo is just 'stick me on your finger, and I'll tell you your sats, and tons of other information', where Apple is 'You have to 'concentrate' on this, be 'still', not move AT ALL, and it *should* work'.

Comparing them *should* be appropriate and meaningful. They both use the same basic method to determine the oxygen saturation of the hemoglobin, so why is Apple's 'solution' such a mess? It's not a feature, it's nearly a flaw compared to the ease and capability of the Masimo unit. It's kind of embarrassing that Masimo sued Apple over their 'feature'. It's, so far, so not comparable in my opinion. Apple has a lot to do to make this usable.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I just checked mine and then compared it to a Zacurate 500DL Pro and the readings were identical. YMMV.

And, yes, the Masimo has been right up there with the Apple Watch 'Blood O2' reading. Usually the same level, and occasionally they have disagreed, but they end up the same over a handful of seconds.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Apple has stated from the beginning, that your wrist has to be still and level for the reading to work.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Apple has stated from the beginning, that your wrist has to be still and level for the reading to work.

Okay, so it's on me. Fine. I assumed that the feature would be usable, I was wrong. I assumed that if Masimo could make their system work with some motion, that I didn't have to be inert to get Apple's to work.

I guess I'll have to wait for the next version(s). I was just disappointed. I was hoping to be able to forget where I put the Masimo for real. That little sucker is easy to lose in my pain cave.

 

[HDFan]

I assumed that if Masimo could make their system work with some motion,

Guess that's a difference. The watch app does prompt you to not move.

 

[xraydoc]

Wrist ≠ finger

 

[HDFan]

Wrist ≠ finger

That makes sense. A tight fitting finger sensor isn't going to move around as much as a much larger Apple watch that may be moving in and out as you move and as it might be hitting the wrist bone.

 

[PaladinGuy]

I’m not sure if it’s fair to compare an FDA approved medical device with a consumer, non-medical device.

I’d also guess that no wrist sensor will be able to accurately measure blood oxygen while moving. At least Apple’s sensor is accurate while still, which can’t be said for other watches.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I’m not sure if it’s fair to compare an FDA approved medical device with a consumer, non-medical device.

I’d also guess that no wrist sensor will be able to accurately measure blood oxygen while moving. At least Apple’s sensor is accurate while still, which can’t be said for other watches.

The Masimo is FDA approved? Seriously? Hmm... It's not exactly accurate at times. *shrug* I guess it's all just a WAG.

But anyway, I did have higher hopes for this feature. I'm done...

 

[michaelprescott]

Interesting. I use the heart sensors and O2 sensors regularly to record readings at least once a day and sometimes after exercise routines, and have never had a problem. So I tested differently. You are right, if I bounce my arm around I was able to get it to notify me to be still. That's the first time I've ever noticed that. I guess I just assumed I needed to be still and haven't ever tested in motion before.

My wife works in healthcare and we have other professional medical devices. Comparing the accuracy of the watch's sensors was one of the first things we did, and it was spot on for heart and o2. Of course for those, I was instructed to sit still as well.

It would be nice if the watch took automatic and frequent O2 readings during workouts, but I'm happy that it makes it easy and records it post workout as well.

 

[ZebraDude]

well.....I just checked mine & it worked the first time......

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

well.....I just checked mine & it worked the first time......

My AW generally works, but I am shocked at what classifies as 'movement' that causes it to fail. Roll my wrist; *FAIL*, Raise my hand; *FAIL*, have any kind of slow swaying like on a stationary trainer; *FAIL*.

Those saying wrist != finger are excusing the fact that the source and sensor are in contact with the skin in both devices. I can see the red source on both devices. Maybe it's that the Masimo shines their source through the finger, but if that is the reason for the AW fail, why did Apple even do their obviously flawed feature? If it will never be as good, stable as the Masimo, *never*, why do it? I've had a few failures following the instructions from Apple! If it's that sensitive, it's not a 'feature', it's a gimmick, and I fell for it. I should have kept my AW4, and be happy and uninformed how bad that feature is. I lead an active life, and I use the Masimo occasionally while exercising. I was hoping that the AW 'feature' (as I've said) could/would replace the Masimo to *some* extent.

But, people, let's move on. It's a gimmick, and I got that. Maybe it will be better in the future. I was thinking that the limitations were potentially Apple being cautious and not over playing the feature and is working on making it better more effective over time. Maybe, though, that's just not even possible.

But it's weird that the feature seems to trigger by itself from time to time. I have no idea why, or if it is successful. *shrug*

Moving on...

 

[KBJ55]

As I noted above, I've never had a problem with it and I sure don't recall having any issue with it failing to get a reading. I simply hold my wrist still and it does its thing. It takes, what, maybe 15 secs to complete? Maybe your watch is too loose on your wrist? Maybe the sensor needs to be cleaned?

 

[usagora]

But, people, let's move on. It's a gimmick, and I got that.

Except it's not a gimmick. It does indeed measure your blood O2. Just be sure your AW is not too loose and don't be moving your wrist around during the 15 second it's measuring and it should work fine. I just tried it like 5 times in a row and didn't have to hold my breath, lol! It worked just fine.

 

[Lihp8270]

You shouldn’t be moving around while using a pulse oximeter.

It just causes erroneous readings. Just because you have a device which gives you a junk reading while being waved around. Does not make it an improvement over a device which tries to prevent erroneous readings.

Using a pulse oximeter

Home page of NHS Barnsley Clinical Commissioning Group CCG.

www.barnsleyccg.nhs.uk

The effect of motion on pulse oximetry and its clinical significance - PubMed

Pulse oximetry is an important diagnostic and patient monitoring tool. However, motion can induce considerable error into pulse oximetry accuracy, resulting in loss of data, inaccurate readings, and false alarms. We will discuss how motion artifact affects pulse oximetry accuracy, the clinical...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[addamas]

Away from reading I could not find why Apple decided that turning off background O2 readings… disables possibility to start it on demand (manually by opening app), because it’s asking to turn it on again.

Whoever decided on this switch to be related to overall app work is an idiot.

 

[Shanghaichica]

It's not the the consistency that I am disappointed with, it's the idea that I have to be nearly completely inert, immobile, catatonic to get it to finish testing. Sometimes it bombs immediately, sometimes it bombs literally in the last seconds of the 15 second cycle. The Masimo is just 'stick me on your finger, and I'll tell you your sats, and tons of other information', where Apple is 'You have to 'concentrate' on this, be 'still', not move AT ALL, and it *should* work'.

Comparing them *should* be appropriate and meaningful. They both use the same basic method to determine the oxygen saturation of the hemoglobin, so why is Apple's 'solution' such a mess? It's not a feature, it's nearly a flaw compared to the ease and capability of the Masimo unit. It's kind of embarrassing that Masimo sued Apple over their 'feature'. It's, so far, so not comparable in my opinion. Apple has a lot to do to make this usable.

That’s exactly how it‘s done in a medical setting. The patient sits still whilst the reading is taken, they aren’t running all over the place.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

That’s exactly how it‘s done in a medical setting. The patient sits still whilst the reading is taken, they aren’t running all over the place.

'In a medical setting' the patient is usually sitting on a bed. I don't wave my arms like I just don't care on my bike when I have the Masimo on my finger, but thanks for your input.

The Masimo is way more reliable than the AW feature. *ANY* movement, and the watch finks out. It just seems unusually punitive.

 

[cardfan]

Apple has stated from the beginning, that your wrist has to be still and level for the reading to work.

And that it’s nothing more than an entertainment app.

 

[Lihp8270]

And that it’s nothing more than an entertainment app.

It’s always matched my approved finger clip blood oximeter. I’d say it’s fairly accurate. For me at least. YMMV

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

And that it’s nothing more than an entertainment app.

In the idea that it probably tends to feed hypochondriacs, and other types of people. I attempted to use it as part of the telemetry I loosely track for training, and also to potentially show the onset of Covid type symptoms. However it's definitely NOT for training, unless you want a 'snap measurement', and can stay almost frozen solid still so it doesn't fail. I see this, now, in the same way as the 'body temperature' possible gimmick being rumoured to be added. (First off, your arm is not 'the body', in that it's an appendage and will likely always be somewhat cooler then the body core. (But I wouldn't want to have to put a probe 'where the sun don't shine', just to be 'more accurate') Armpit would work, wrist? Hmm... Anyone with Raynaud's Syndrome wouldn't find it useful at all. And it only shows one arm. What about the other one?)

Sometimes too much data is just too much data. Especially if it's wrong.

 

[parseckadet]

You shouldn’t be moving around while using a pulse oximeter.

It just causes erroneous readings. Just because you have a device which gives you a junk reading while being waved around. Does not make it an improvement over a device which tries to prevent erroneous readings.

Using a pulse oximeter

Home page of NHS Barnsley Clinical Commissioning Group CCG.

www.barnsleyccg.nhs.uk

The effect of motion on pulse oximetry and its clinical significance - PubMed

Pulse oximetry is an important diagnostic and patient monitoring tool. However, motion can induce considerable error into pulse oximetry accuracy, resulting in loss of data, inaccurate readings, and false alarms. We will discuss how motion artifact affects pulse oximetry accuracy, the clinical...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

'In a medical setting' the patient is usually sitting on a bed. I don't wave my arms like I just don't care on my bike when I have the Masimo on my finger, but thanks for your input.

The Masimo is way more reliable than the AW feature. *ANY* movement, and the watch finks out. It just seems unusually punitive.

You do understand that someone actually attempted to address your criticisms by posting a medical study that discusses why movement is an issue for ALL SpO2 sensors right? Instead of ignoring it perhaps you should try reading it. You keep returning to your Masimo sensor as if it's the best thing in the world. What people are trying to tell you is that just because it is giving A reading while you are exercising, that doesn't mean that it's giving you an ACCURATE reading. The medical study linked previously discusses how all SpO2 sensors are calibrated assuming a specific ratio of arterial and vinous blood that is only found when the subject is remaining still. It says that this ratio changes when the subject is moving, and thus the conditions that the sensor is calibrated for are no longer present, resulting in false readings. ANY movement results in this ratio changing, whether that be arms flailing about, or just the passive movement of your arm rising and falling with your breath while it rests on your chest.

 

[Velin]

I have a respiratory-therapist-grade finger pulse ox at home, a Nonin Onyx Vantage 9590. Can confirm the Nonin and Apple Watch S7 readings are close, with maybe a point or two of deviation on any particular reading. Don't know about any other version, but Watch S7 pulse ox readings are accurate for a consumer-grade device.

Of course the Nonin is superior. It provides both heart rate and O2 simultaneously. And the Nonin provides two critical pieces of continuous, real-time data: accurate readings whether O2 is going up or down in real-time (the cheapies don't do this); and color-coded indicator of the reading's signal quality (i.e. indicating whether the device needs to be re-positioned). But Watch S7 does just fine for ordinary everyday use.