And to avoid having most of its production shut down as well. The problem of production in China and supply chain dependence isn’t just a problem for Apple, but it’s one they must face.
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Apple's Security Compromises in China Outlined in New Report
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Most around here miss it. It's not just about doing business and asking a multinational company (which has a large, if not the largest, portion of its revenue made internationally, let alone manufactures everything internationally) to comply with both domestic and international rules at the same time. It is also about the right of 1.5 billion people to avoid being spied by an aggressive alien country which considers them enemies. Just because most countries do not have the power to oppose oppression by USA (directly or indirectly) it does not mean that it should or can happen with everyone.
China spies its own citizens. Good/bad for them. So does USA and probably everyone else. The difference is when you spy the whole world and have shenanigans in a technology forum preach that this should be the default/ethical/legal thing to do.
China spies its own citizens. Good/bad for them. So does USA and probably everyone else. The difference is when you spy the whole world and have shenanigans in a technology forum preach that this should be the default/ethical/legal thing to do.
Again that is entirely normal. Germany has similar requirements for data at rest. And Russia as well. No need to shout about possession, there really is no need to dramatise about it. Keeping the keys in country and access is entirely normal. The privacy shield arrangements between the US and EU also come with a lot of rules.
Those are just the rules of the country. It is a very complex business to comply with all of them. And no it doesn’t compromise security and it won’t impact you if you don’t live in that country. It might impact you if you do business. It’s a standard part of doing business to educate oneself.
Two things:
1) As others have said on this thread, Cook comes over as a hypocrite when he talks about ‘privacy being a human right’ & how important this is to him and Apple - except in China.
2) As the article mentions, Apple seem particularly vulnerable with a new Cold War starting up given that the vast majority of their supply and manufacturing is based in China. Of course, its architect is Tim Cook.
Serious question: Why can’t Apple recreate its supply and manufacturing chain here in the West? There seems to be no reason why they can’t in 5 (with some government subsidies).
The main issue seems to be that Apple’s hardware profits depend on (in a large part) in using a 3rd party un-unionised workforce in countries like China where they aren’t paid much and need to work long hours.
Apple can then ruthlessly reduce the margins of its suppliers.
There seems to be no particular ‘magic’ that China is offering beyond that. Happy ho be proved wrong!
1) As others have said on this thread, Cook comes over as a hypocrite when he talks about ‘privacy being a human right’ & how important this is to him and Apple - except in China.
2) As the article mentions, Apple seem particularly vulnerable with a new Cold War starting up given that the vast majority of their supply and manufacturing is based in China. Of course, its architect is Tim Cook.
Serious question: Why can’t Apple recreate its supply and manufacturing chain here in the West? There seems to be no reason why they can’t in 5 (with some government subsidies).
The main issue seems to be that Apple’s hardware profits depend on (in a large part) in using a 3rd party un-unionised workforce in countries like China where they aren’t paid much and need to work long hours.
Apple can then ruthlessly reduce the margins of its suppliers.
There seems to be no particular ‘magic’ that China is offering beyond that. Happy ho be proved wrong!
Unless I’m missing something but that has nothing to do with what the article is about. It doesn’t matter where the services or hardware is build at all. It’s irrelevant to what the article covers.
You're already proven wrong by reality itself. If manufacturing in the US makes more sense, Apple would've done it. Let's face it, at this point, no country can provide the volume and working culture like the Chinese. In fact, any democratic countries would be having difficulties matching China in manufacturing , simply because of the culture and mentality of the people.
I'll ask you, in which country where the citizens are willing to be kept in a huge mess hall barracks for their livelihood to work like a robot in a factory, and should be available in moments of notice? Even India is struggling with its labors. Only China can do it at the scale Apple wants.
Apple is trying. After the trade ban and covid, anybody knows not to be too dependant on China. Foxconn is putting efforts in other countries as well. But complete independence from China won't happen overnjght. It will take decades, even longer, to recreate the manufacturing prowess of China. That's assuming you have stability and no labor issues, which are frequent problems in any democracy.
Fair enough, but that was my point - Apple's public image in the West is of an ultra-liberal ultra innovative company, yet it appears to rely on conditions in the manufacture of its products that no-one in a western democracy would put up with - and that [edit: western] gvts would not allow in the first place. That's the uneasy dichotomy that I was trying to point out.
In the paywalled article, there is a section where an expert on manufacturing in China said that they pointed out to senior execs at Apple that their reliance on China was making them vulnerable.
Not that "western democracy would put up with". It's more like western democracy wouldn't be able to replicate the efficiency. Working conditions are different outside of the US, but that doesn't mean every factory outside of the US would break US labor laws.
Are you arguing they should break the law in countries they operate in?
What if Apple disagrees with some tax codes in certain countries on principle. Should they illegally avoid paying those taxes because of their tax principles?
Of course, Apple should comply with EU regulations requiring personal data to be stored in the EU. If a country makes gamling apps illegal, Apple should remove them from the store for that country.
They should care about privacy, but not so much that they need to break the law.
They are trying to follow the law both in China and in the US.
The US allows companies, in most circumstances, to challenge the government. Chine doesn't.
I think most people believe international companies should follow the law in the countries they operate in, even if they disagree with said laws.
Are you really saying that Americans think that American companies shouldn't follow local laws even if those laws goes against democracy, personal freedom etc?
I think one simply needs to recognize marketing when one sees it. If one got into believing everything Apple (or any for profit company) said, well, that’s not really Apple’s fault now, is it…
Not grandstand and use the company I run as my personal soapbox to push my liberal agenda for starters.....
Do you really think Apple has a liberal agenda? All their actions are the classic capitalism. What comes out from their mouth are just marketing. Maybe people need to stop being too naive about a for profit and publicly traded company.
That's funny right there. I don't care who you are that's funny right there.
Your response is reason #1 why parsing a post sans context is bad form. The meaning of what you parsed from my quote is in everything you deleted.
There's absolutely nothing in my original quote even remotely close to an opinion about American companies, following international laws, democracy, or personal freedoms. Just to be crystal, there's nothing in this one either.
Paraphrased, my comment states just because someone may think something's old news doesn't mean it's old news to everyone else. I thought that was clear from the portion of my comment you deleted.
Why no specifics, though? Say, if I have another country's Apple ID but currently reside in China, but I never changed the location of my Apple ID or Apple Store to "China", however I have a Chinese phone number as my primary one... Am I a "China user"? Can Chinese KGB read my and my wife's sexting? I know they want to ? but are they physically able to decrypt my iMessages?
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But to be honest, I will confirm a point that was already mentioned early on: kudos to Apple for giving us an alternative product to use in China, as a person with Western sensibilities I appreciate that a lot. Don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but I just don't dig user interfaces and very weak attempts at localizations (i.e. translating the interface into languages other than Chinese) of locally-produced phones, not even mentioning that for ALL local apps, like all maps, you have to be able to READ Chinese to use them.