Ask me anything: I switched from Mac to Linux because of Apple's surveillance

[Pummers]

I've finally thrown in the towel and abandoned Linux because of one dealbreaker: there is literally no way whatsoever to color manage the entire desktop and clamp display colors to sRGB range. It's app-specific only. That means on any recent wide gamut laptop display without any OSD controls (which are most new laptops), colors on Linux will permanently look like over-vibrant radioactive atomic vomit instead of the calm subdued regular color that is intended.

Gnome supports ICC profiles that affect the gamma and color temperature of the whole display, but it does not clamp the color space. KDE same thing. I've literally tried everything, from going back to compiz plugins (broken and no longer developed), to something call novideo_srgb (nvidia direct connection only, no go on optimus). What I finally succeeded on is creating a 3D LUT from my display's ICC profile and using that with vkBasalt, a kind of ReShade for Linux, which miraculously worked after ages of research, but it only works with Vulkan games, like Steam. Full desktop is a no go.

This sucks and I can't even look at my internal display while using Linux. This is one area macOS gets right, they always care about details like this. Windows also doesn't manage colorspace at the OS level, but OEMs all step in with solutions like Asus GameVisual and Dell PremierColor to correct this oversight. With Windows 11 being pretty modernized and elegant like Gnome 40, I'm making the switch until Linux get its act together with color. I hear whispers of next year perhaps.

Taming the Wide Gamut using sRGB Emulation | PC Monitors

Sounds like it's very broken. Some of the other commenters on thus thread have noted what you've said here since 2019, so it doesn't look like there's a good fix coming any time soon.

Intel Developer Working On Adding HDR Display Support To Wayland / Weston - Phoronix Forums

Phoronix: Intel Developer Working On Adding HDR Display Support To Wayland / Weston While the Linux desktop's display stack has largely reached parity with Windows and macOS in recent years (most recently, the DRM core properties hitting Linux 5.0 around Adaptive-Sync / VRR), but one of the...

www.phoronix.com

 

[WriteNow]

I was reminded of another phone option for some: Sailfish OS. The company claims privacy. But there are caveats:

• It's not currently available outside selected parts of the world (basically EU--but they claim they are looking into expanding)
• It's not fully open source (for whom that matters)
• The better versions require paying a license fee
• It seems to run on very limited selection of hardware

On the plus side, I've read some positive commentary, including someone hoping that Linux phones will be inspired by some aspects of Sailfish.

And one hopeful thing--which was what reminded me of this product--was seeing an article talking about how the company has reached a point of turning a profit. Which shows some hope that there might be a place for alternatives to the Apple/Google duopoly.

Sailfish OS fourth generation - Sailfish OS

sailfishos.org

 

[babyexercise]

For those that switched off Apple already, share your stories! What hardware or software did you get? What was your decision like? How's it going so far?

inspired by this post below by @RightsOfBill and insight from @hashbreaker2021

2 weeks ago I purchased a Lemur Pro laptop from System76. I had just purchased a 16" MBP from Apple a year ago so I wasn't looking for a replacement. I've used Macs forever and in the past 24 months bought a MBP, iPad, Watch, Airpods pros and max. I was cheering Apple's "Mind your own business" ads. Then this CSAM bs. Bye.

If you're considering switching -- Ask me anything!

If you think switching is dumb, waste of time, aren't interested etc, I kindly request that you only observe this thread or start your own discussion thread.



I would consider Windows but it's closed source so doesn't seem like an option.

I honestly think there is surveillance In Linux as well. A lot of worldwide governments use Linux for serious projects, having surveillance in Linux gives US gov big advantage.
I believe this is the true reason why Linux happened and for free.

 

[bradl]

I honestly think there is surveillance In Linux as well. A lot of worldwide governments use Linux for serious projects, having surveillance in Linux gives US gov big advantage.
I believe this is the true reason why Linux happened and for free.

The NSA has its own distro, and was one of the major proponents for SELinux. And with SELinux, portions of that project are directly in the kernel.

BL.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Don't forget about Red Star OS, the North Korean Linux!

There's literally a distro for anyone and everyone, including governments and dictatorships.

doesn't mean they're all that way.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

Don't forget about Red Star OS, the North Korean Linux!

There's literally a distro for anyone and everyone, including governments and dictatorships.

doesn't mean they're all that way.

So which one is safe? ?

 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

If you use Gnome, you can even have a notch.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454015289906008064

 

[maflynn]

If you're considering switching -- Ask me anything!

How's your Linux journey?

I've been following Linus' journey on his Linux Challenge. I don't think the actual youtubes have been posted but he's been talking about his experience in LMG clips and this one for me sums up not only my experience but also the criticisms of Linux

Some of his points have resonated, for instance where KDE's Dolphin is unable to copy a file to a directory that has admin privileges - that file manager seems written in such a way that it just down right prevents you and the response from the KDE community is that you should need to do that and if you do, just use the command line.

One of the biggest criticism of Linux is that its not ready for general consumers, and the mentality of needing the terminal to execute tasks flies in the face of that ideal. The average user does not want to type in a cryptic series of characters in the terminal not knowing what they do because they're not really computer savvy, they just want to copy a file and drag and drop won't work.

The other major point that I feel resonates with me, is that I continually hear how stable and generally problem free Linux is (and as Linus states, on the server it is), but that's just not been my personal experience, whether I'm trying to fix a display issue because of the nvidia driver, or get my wifi working. I've run into a lot more head scratching problems in Linux that I ever have in Windows or MacOS.

 

[babyexercise]

If you use Gnome, you can even have a notch.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454015289906008064

Lol very funny

 

[bradl]

How's your Linux journey?

I've been following Linus' journey on his Linux Challenge. I don't think the actual youtubes have been posted but he's been talking about his experience in LMG clips and this one for me sums up not only my experience but also the criticisms of Linux

Some of his points have resonated, for instance where KDE's Dolphin is unable to copy a file to a directory that has admin privileges - that file manager seems written in such a way that it just down right prevents you and the response from the KDE community is that you should need to do that and if you do, just use the command line.

One of the biggest criticism of Linux is that its not ready for general consumers, and the mentality of needing the terminal to execute tasks flies in the face of that ideal. The average user does not want to type in a cryptic series of characters in the terminal not knowing what they do because they're not really computer savvy, they just want to copy a file and drag and drop won't work.

The other major point that I feel resonates with me, is that I continually hear how stable and generally problem free Linux is (and as Linus states, on the server it is), but that's just not been my personal experience, whether I'm trying to fix a display issue because of the nvidia driver, or get my wifi working. I've run into a lot more head scratching problems in Linux that I ever have in Windows or MacOS.

He's using Linux wrong.

Seriously though, the only time I have ever had an instability issue with Linux was back in the Pentium II and Pentium III days when the f00f bug existed that nearly bricked every CPU when running the kernel that was deemed "stable", that every newly released software distro at the time had used.

Then again, I've been primarily on Slackware since 1994 (still am today on the VM I'm running), and it has been stable with anything and everything I've thrown at it.

BL.

 

[LeeW]

Like I have said before, I have used Linux 20+ years, command line 99% of the time on remote servers. I love it, for servers. Never would I recommend Linux as a desktop to anyone. If someone has a need/want for a desktop Linux experience they should find that path themselves, nobody should be trying to encourage the inexperienced to use it. Won't end well.

 

[bradl]

Like I have said before, I have used Linux 20+ years, command line 99% of the time on remote servers. I love it, for servers. Never would I recommend Linux as a desktop to anyone. If someone has a need/want for a desktop Linux experience they should find that path themselves, nobody should be trying to encourage the inexperienced to use it. Won't end well.

I have to agree with that. Since you're not limited to a single window manager, and each one has their unique UI, recommending what window manager to use in X is like choosing what OS to run. I mean, I started with FVWM, to FVWM95 (don't ask me why) to a full blown XTerm, to WindowMaker, all of which didn't do it for me. Then having a full blown environment like KDE or GNOME just screamed bloated for me. I settled on AfterStep, which works wonderfully for me.

If I go back to Linux primarily, I'd definitely be running AfterStep again, but that's just me. But seeing that it is totally customizable, trying to get Linux on the desktop is hard to advocate because of how many options the desktop can have and use.

BL.

 

[MBAir2010]

Don't forget about Red Star OS, the North Korean Linux!

There's literally a distro for anyone and everyone, including governments and dictatorships.

doesn't mean they're all that way.

does the Taliban have a distro yet?
my neighbors were talking politics and i quickly told then i'm now Taliban.
this clears me of any issues i might have to adhere to!

 

[nickdalzell1]

You can actually demo Red Star OS (but I'd do it on a PC disconnected from the internet, apparently the spyware tends to escape VMs)

Red Star OS - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The operating system comes pre-installed with a number of applications that monitor its users. If a user tries to disable security functions, the operating system often restarts in continuous loops or destroys itself. In addition, a watermarking tool integrated into the system marks all media content with the hard drive's serial number, allowing the North Korean authorities to trace the spread of files. The system also has hidden "anti-virus" software that is capable of removing censored files that are remotely stored by the North Korean secret service. There is a user group called "administrator" in the operating system. Users do not have root access by default, but are able to elevate their privileges to root by running a built-in utility called "rootsetting". However, provisions are made in kernel modules to deny even root users access to certain files, and extensive system integrity checks are done at boot time to ensure these files have not been modified.[18]

 

[MBAir2010]

How's your Linux journey?

I've been following Linus' journey on his Linux Challenge.

I saw the Linus video were he was supposed to use Linux for a month with another interviewer
(maybe that guy on the right)
somehow i cant find the follow up videos, unless this was the one.

great post tho, Linux is not an everyday OS and doe snot interact with ipads like apple, or even Windows.
edge can sent a page to and from my Delll XPS instantly.

 

[bradl]

I saw the Linus video were he was supposed to use Linux for a month with another interviewer
(maybe that guy on the right)
somehow i cant find the follow up videos, unless this was the one.

great post tho, Linux is not an everyday OS and doe snot interact with ipads like apple, or even Windows.
edge can sent a page to and from my Delll XPS instantly.

Actually, it does interact with iPads and iPods. GTKPod is simplistic but does the job, but one of the more preferred alternatives is Amarok. That will get you going for music, apps, etc. But more than that, you can use libimobiledevice and iFuse to directly interact with your iDevice, to the point where you can even mount the iPad, iPod, or iPhone as an external drive.

Libimobiledevice and iFuse are available from most Ubuntu repositories, or you can play it even safer and compile it from source.

BL.

 

[MBAir2010]

Actually, it does interact with iPads and iPods. GTKPod is simplistic but does the job, but one of the more preferred alternatives is Amarok. That will get you going for music, apps, etc. But more than that, you can use libimobiledevice and iFuse to directly interact with your iDevice, to the point where you can even mount the iPad, iPod, or iPhone as an external drive.

Libimobiledevice and iFuse are available from most Ubuntu repositories, or you can play it even safer and compile it from source.

BL.

I forgot about some other software i used when i went appleless for months that works on linux.
and some are quicker than High Sierra itunes!
i was thinking in the drop off and other features ipad work Catalina has and now Monterrey.

 

[bradl]

I forgot about some other software i used when i went appleless for months that works on linux.
and some are quicker than High Sierra itunes!
i was thinking in the drop off and other features ipad work Catalina has and now Monterrey.

Hmm.. you have Amarok, Audacity, XMMS, and a few others.. When the iDevices started to get big was when I moved from Linux to the Mac (right around the time OS X Lion was released). I'll have to go through the list again to find what works.

BL.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I think Amarok got deprecated. It's only on one of my systems from 2012. Trying to do it now just produces a "E: Package 'amarok' has no installation candidate" error.

It's like IceWeasel, sadly. Won't compile from source either. Clementine gets close.

 

[WriteNow]

I think Amarok got deprecated.

I don't know that I've used Amarok--but I do recognize the name. (I don't use media players much--and usually these days whatever is included by default is good enough for me.) I just checked on Amarok, and saw this, which was posted in February:

A new year, a new Amarok release ... yes!​

​

You read correctly, after a long hiatus and all developers busy with their real life, the Qt5 port had to wait. But finally, thanks to the dedicated work of a few hardy developers like Pedro and Heiko, we are proud to present the technical preview or the next Amarok: Amarok 2.9.71 aka Amarok 3.0 Alpha.​

​

Amarok | Rediscover Your Music!

amarok.kde.org

 

[maflynn]

Seriously though, the only time I have ever had an instability issue with Linux was back in the Pentium II and Pentium III

I believe in the LMG YTs both Linus and Luke have been up front with the issues they've run into. I don't believe they're running into BSOD type instabilities but bugs and problems that impact their day to day usage - such as the password issue Linus describes. You may be a wiz with Slackware, but that doesn't mean people have not run into issues with slackware, especially those people who haven't really had a lot of Linux experience - it can be a daunting task.

For instance, Luke has this one issue which almost made him change with desktop managers or even distros in the middle of the challenge - something along the lines of him dragging a window around was so problematic and laggy that it was down right frustrating. His research led to a known problem for something like 15 years. That is a bug that the community knows about, but never fixed.

I saw the Linus video were he was supposed to use Linux for a month with another interviewer
(maybe that guy on the right)
somehow i cant find the follow up videos, unless this was the one.

The LMG clips channel has Linus and Luke talking about their experience in using Linux but there will be a video series showing this Linux challenge in detail, which will heave measurable tasks to compare them to other platforms, i.e., installing, games, productivity apps

 

[MBAir2010]

The LMG clips channel has Linus and Luke talking about their experience in using Linux but there will be a video series showing this Linux challenge in detail, which will heave measurable tasks to compare them to other platforms, i.e., installing, games, productivity apps

I just saw the 1 video were they talked about talking about using linux.
and need to find that series somehow just for entertainment values.

I like the chubsie-ubsy guy on LTT and he is thorough but fast in his "how to" videos.
but he is influencing young tech wanna bees too much.
case in point, we now need to use terminal to install an unsupported os rather than a USB drive only.
the Monterey thread here is full of unsuccessful and confused people wanting to upgrade their 2014 MBP
which is a shame due to the greatness of that laptop and the similarity to the 2015-2017 models.

 

[bradl]

I believe in the LMG YTs both Linus and Luke have been up front with the issues they've run into. I don't believe they're running into BSOD type instabilities but bugs and problems that impact their day to day usage - such as the password issue Linus describes. You may be a wiz with Slackware, but that doesn't mean people have not run into issues with slackware, especially those people who haven't really had a lot of Linux experience - it can be a daunting task.

For instance, Luke has this one issue which almost made him change with desktop managers or even distros in the middle of the challenge - something along the lines of him dragging a window around was so problematic and laggy that it was down right frustrating. His research led to a known problem for something like 15 years. That is a bug that the community knows about, but never fixed.

This alludes back to what I also mentioned in my post: the choice of desktop/window managers, and unfortunately, how they are set up to run; not by the user per se, but in how they are compiled and optimized for the user, which is at the hands of those managing the software distribution.

One thing that turned me off very quickly from RedHat, CentOS, and Fedora was how bloated their software distros are and how bloated their binaries compiled for those distros are. While harmless and not really relevant to a window manager, let's take a simple binary, like gzip.

on a RHEL8 server I maintain, that binary is currently 173600 bytes.. 170KB. On my Linux box running slackware, it is 85720 bytes.. 84k Both of these binaries are compiled dynamically and stripped, so all debugging info is removed from the binary. But this also means that you can't trace any calls to any libraries or to the OS for memory for the duration of it running, nor can you see if the binary is optimized for the machine it is on. If it isn't optimized for it, of course it is going to be laggy.

If that is the simple case here for gzip, then what does that say about an entire window/desktop manager? That will definitely contribute to a horrible experience outright because the new Linux user was effectively set up to fail.

The LMG clips channel has Linus and Luke talking about their experience in using Linux but there will be a video series showing this Linux challenge in detail, which will heave measurable tasks to compare them to other platforms, i.e., installing, games, productivity apps

That will be hilarious to see... not because of how Linus and Luke will be, but for how embarrassing Linux is for gaming. Yes, Steam works, but if the best we've had over the past 25 years is playing the original version of Doom, we're in trouble.

BL.

 

[LeeW]

How's your Linux journey?

I suspect not very well given how quiet he has gone on the subject.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I haven't really messed with Linux for about a decade.

I just installed POP OS on my custom desktop. Wow, things have changed for the better. Probably the smoothest Linux install I've ever experienced. I was expecting a refresher course of using terminal commands to load drivers and etc. But pretty much everything worked.

My only problem now is most of my apps open in small windows, and I have to resize them everytime.