Babysitting an operating system

[revmacian]

Make sure that the integrated GPU is selected in the nVidia control panel as the default GPU, not the dGPU, and make sure these specific apps aren't separately set to run off the dGPU. This is a main cause of this happening. Once I made sure of that, I've never had any trouble with this happening.
The issue here as that these apps are running off the dGPU, which obviously will prevent the tablet from being removed from the base (the dGPU is physically in the base).

Oh, nice.. thank you, I'll check that and make changes.
[automerge]1587244350[/automerge]

That additional info is helpful. Yeah... the Surface Book itself it definitely contributing to a portion of the woes you are experiencing. It is has some unique tech in it and doesn't have high quality device drivers.

But as you've discovered, a debloating script can make a significant difference. In another thread I had outlined the basic steps that I take with each Win10 device that I get... and debloating is one of the first. And as @c0ppo mentioned, there's some under the covers stuff that can impede performance and stability.

Once those basic preliminary steps are taken, there really isn't much in the way of babysitting that needs to be done with Win10.

That is a relief, thanks for that.

 

[xraydoc]

Oh, nice.. thank you, I'll check that and make changes.
[automerge]1587244350[/automerge]

That is a relief, thanks for that.

Just an FYI, I've never run this script on my Surface Book 2 but I've got no problems at all with such things like Mail or YourPhone launching at startup. Check your startup options in the Task Manager. Also check if those particular apps have a setting like "launch when Windows starts" or something similar.

I've had my Surface Book 2 just shy of 2 years and it's honestly given me MacBook Pro-level performance and stability.

 

[canesalato]

I'm seeing daily updates in the Settings window on Windows 10 Pro on my Surface Book. If this is different than what you folks are finding online, then you folks really need to come over to my house and look at my computer.. the Internet is not always right. Obviously you folks don't have all the facts.. and speaking without having all of the facts is negatively impacting your credibility. Your opinion does not alter reality.

revmacian out.

I think you are trolling a little (toddlerOS etc.)... or at least using a lot of hyperbole. I have a Surface Pro and I am not seeing daily updates. Indeed updates follow EXACTLY what you find on the internet, except for malware definitions, which require one second to download and don't require any reboot...or action from the user. The schedule is fixed and generally very predictable. If your computer is so unique that, in order to understand, we need to come over to your house during a pandemic, it may have some specific issue and you should try to get fixed, it's not a general windows issue. =)

PS: perhaps you could post a screenshot of your update history?

 

[revmacian]

I think you are trolling a little (toddlerOS etc.)... or at least using a lot of hyperbole. I have a Surface Pro and I am not seeing daily updates. Indeed updates follow EXACTLY what you find on the internet, except for malware definitions, which require one second to download and don't require any reboot...or action from the user. The schedule is fixed and generally very predictable. If your computer is so unique that, in order to understand, we need to come over to your house during a pandemic, it may have some specific issue and you should try to get fixed, it's not a general windows issue. =)

PS: perhaps you could post a screenshot of your update history?

I don't mean to offend you but your opinion doesn't matter, the facts matter.

Ok.. here is a screenshot. I reinstalled the Windows 10 Pro OS on the 12th of this month.. and I posted this thread on Thursday, the 16th. As you can see there have been updates daily between the time I installed the OS and the day I posted this thread. I have been using Linux since 1999 and Macs since 2012.. and neither of those operating system have interrupted me with the need for daily updates.

You posted without having all of the facts and you've made yourself look bad. Perhaps this will encourage you to reserve judgement in the future until you have the facts. Quite frankly, you weren't here and you didn't see what I saw.. so you don't really know what happened.



This is Microsoft's own hardware running their own software and I still have these problems.. most of which were resolved by running a third-party script to remove junk that Microsoft, themselves, added to the system. I don't ever remember having these issues with Linux, BSD or macOS. Windows 10 is a thrown-together mess that is barely fit to be a child's plaything.

 

[canesalato]

I don't mean to offend you but your opinion doesn't matter, the facts matter.

Ok.. here is a screenshot. I reinstalled the Windows 10 Pro OS on the 12th of this month.. and I posted this thread on Thursday, the 16th. As you can see there have been updates daily between the time I installed the OS and the day I posted this thread. I have been using Linux since 1999 and Macs since 2012.. and neither of those operating system have interrupted me with the need for daily updates.

You posted without having all of the facts and you've made yourself look bad. Perhaps this will encourage you to reserve judgement in the future until you have the facts. Quite frankly, you weren't here and you didn't see what I saw.. so you don't really know what happened.

View attachment 907230

This is Microsoft's own hardware running their own software and I still have these problems.. most of which were resolved by running a third-party script to remove junk that Microsoft, themselves, added to the system. I don't ever remember having these issues with Linux, BSD or macOS. Windows 10 is a thrown-together mess that is barely fit to be a child's plaything.

Uhm...a couple of lines you wrote sounded a bit like a personal attack...but no worries, no offense taken. Looking "good" or "bad" is not something that keeps me awake at night, but I care about providing rational and correct information.

Let's stick to the facts: according to your own screenshot, you have the March cumulative update, installed on 04/12 (the day you installed Windows) and the April cumulative update, installed on 04/14... those are two scheduled updates...you had them consecutively because you installed windows just a little bit before the release of the April update. It's similar to buying an iPhone with iOS13.0 pre-installed, updating immediately to iOS13.1 and then having 13.2 released a few days later. Nobody loves it, but it can happen on all modern OS, including on gaming devices.

As a matter of fact, iOS13 releases have been very frequent, following a release of very problematic versions such as 13.0 and 13.1... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_13 (iOS 13.2, October 28, 13.2.1, October 30!).

The other lines in your screenshot, as I wrote in my previous post, which made you angry at me ?, are updates to malware definitions.
I understand the confusion, because MacOS and iOS work differently than Windows on this. On MacOS and iOS, you get security updates tied to MacOS/iOS point releases.
Such security updates require long downloads and a reboot.

On Windows instead, malware definition updates are only few kb, (therefore) they take seconds to download and install and don't require any reboot.They are released as new malware is discovered. You don't need to keep track of them, they will just happen without bothering you. Again, they don't require any reboot and don't interrupt your workflow.

On MacOS, they are occasionally performed in a similar way, without the user even knowing, as silent updates. Until few years ago, this kind of service used to cost money and needed third party software. It is considered a great achievement that Windows has this level of focus on security without bothering users at all and out of the box. It's actually an area where I think it's superior to the Mac or iOS. It is also the reason why you do not have to install any anti-virus software on Windows nowadays, unless you choose to do so.

In short, you got 2 monthly updates, installed a couples of days from each other.

I agree with you that I wasn't there, so I don't know what you saw. I am commenting on what you described and on your use of emphatic language.
It's certainly possible that your windows installation has problems, or even your hardware, as I wrote in my previous post.

 

[revmacian]

Uhm...although something you wrote sounded a bit like a personal attack...but no worries, no offense taken.
Let's stick to the facts: according to your own screenshot, you have the March cumulative update, installed on 04/12 (the day you installed Windows) and the April cumulative update, installed on 04/14... those are two scheduled updates...you had them consecutively because you installed windows just a little bit before the release of the April update. It's similar to buying an iPhone with iOS13.0 pre-installed, updating immediately to iOS13.1 and then having 13.2 released a few days later.

As a matter of fact, iOS13 releases have been very frequent, following a release of very problematic versions such as 13.0 and 13.1... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_13 (iOS 13.2, October 28, 13.2.1, October 30!).

The rest you see is, as I wrote in my previous post that made you so angry ? , updates to malware definitions.
I understand the confusion, because MacOS and iOS work differently. You get security updates tied to iOS point releases. Those security updates require long downloads and a reboot. In Windows instead, malware definition updates are only few kb, takes seconds to download and install and don't require any reboot. You don't need to keep track of them, they will just happen without bothering you. On MacOS, they are occasionally performed in a similar way, without the user even knowing, as silent updates. Until few years ago, this kind of service used to cost money and needed third party software. It's a great achievement that Windows has this level of focus on security without bothering users at all and out of the box. It's actually an area where I think it's superior to the Mac or iOS.

Nothing I wrote was meant as a personal attack, and I apologize if it was taken that way. You can view the world through rose colored glasses if you choose, but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft Windows 10 professional is still a mess that required a third-party script to resolve problems on Microsoft's own hardware. If that script was able to resolve the problem and then that means a resolution was possible. Microsoft either doesn't know how to solve the problems or they don't care about solving the problems. This is Microsoft's own hardware.. they should know better.

I've never had to run a third-party script in macOS to solve problems on Apple's own hardware. Come to think of it I've never had to run a script to solve problems in Linux or BSD either.. and those systems run on almost anything.

 

[canesalato]

Nothing I wrote was meant as a personal attack, and I apologize if it was taken that way. You can view the world through rose colored glasses all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft windows 10 professional is still a mess that required a third-party script to resolve problems. If that script was able to resolve the problem and then that means a resolution was possible. Microsoft either doesn't know how to solve the problems or they don't care to solve the problems.

I am glad you solved the issue and please believe me, I do not see the world through rose colored glasses. To be honest, I am not 100% satisfied with any OS, I think they could all be much better if they focused all on quality. Windows can be messy on some aspects, I agree, but MacOS too (for example, I believe iCloud has some really severe underlying issues and is extremely fragile). I have been a Mac user for decades and only switched to Windows a few months ago, out of frustration with things I really did not like. I still use an iPhone 11 and I am generally happy with it. =)

 

[revmacian]

I am glad you solved the issue and please believe me, I do not see the world through rose colored glasses. To be honest, I am not 100% satisfied with any OS, I think they could all be much better if they focused all on quality. Windows can be messy on some aspects, I agree, but MacOS too (for example, I believe iCloud has some really severe underlying issues and is extremely fragile). I have been a Mac user for decades and only switched to Windows a few months ago, out of frustration with things I really did not like. I still use an iPhone 11 and I am generally happy with it. =)

I like macOS, the only downside is I can't theme it.. well, not easily. Heh, don't get me started on iCloud, it just seems so fragile that I'm afraid to touch it sometimes. Linux rules all, in my humble opinion.

 

[canesalato]

I like macOS, the only downside is I can't theme it.. well, not easily. Heh, don't get me started on iCloud, it just seems so fragile that I'm afraid to touch it sometimes. Linux rules all, in my humble opinion.

Yep, and even more impressive because it's the work of professional programmers and volunteers across the world, many of them putting their time of it without any economic reward. I wish some software I need and it's currently not available would be released for Linux, but that's the world we live in at the moment. Hopefully the situation improves.

It's unfortunate that you had to use a third-party script to solve your problem. Users should not have to do that. The flip-side is that when you have a problem on iOS (and they do happen, say an accessory that stops working after an iOS update) there is NOTHING you can do, except reporting the issue and hoping Apple will fix it, install beta software etc. Mac OS has also been trending towards that direction for years, and I am aware there are positive and negative aspects to it.

But an important point in my opinion is:
With Surface you get Microsoft Hardware and software and yet the integration between hardware and software is better on Apple devices. I think no one can argue with that.

However, as a counter argument, I think the quality of the Surface hardware is generally really good. I would say even impressive, when you consider how recently Microsoft has been doing hardware, compared with the other big players.
Also, it is not exactly the same scenario:
With Apple devices you buy hardware and software made by the same company AND made specifically to run on that hardware.
With Microsoft devices you buy hardware and software made by the same company, but the software is still made to run on all computers in the world (including Mac computers!). This certainly makes developing and optimizing the OS a bigger effort.
On the flip side, if Apple starts selling overpriced hardware with failing components (such as the infamous butterfly keyboard) the user is kind of stuck. If Surface devices stop providing value, costumers can easily switch to other vendors that will offer the same OS. I think this kind of "internal competition" keeps Microsoft aware, innovative and competitive on the hardware front.
Again, pros and cons, but, overall, I am excited to see how they all evolve. =)

 

[revmacian]

Yep, and even more impressive because it's the work of professional programmers and volunteers across the world, many of them putting their time of it without any economic reward. I wish some software I need and it's currently not available would be released for Linux, but that's the world we live in at the moment. Hopefully the situation improves.

It's unfortunate that you had to use a third-party script to solve your problem. Users should not have to do that. The flip-side is that when you have a problem on iOS (and they do happen, say an accessory that stops working after an iOS update) there is NOTHING you can do, except reporting the issue and hoping Apple will fix it, install beta software etc. Mac OS has also been trending towards that direction for years, and I am aware there are positive and negative aspects to it.

But an important point in my opinion is:
With Surface you get Microsoft Hardware and software and yet the integration between hardware and software is better on Apple devices. I think no one can argue with that.

However, as a counter argument, I think the quality of the Surface hardware is generally really good. I would say even impressive, when you consider how recently Microsoft has been doing hardware, compared with the other big players.
Also, it is not exactly the same scenario:
With Apple devices you buy hardware and software made by the same company AND made specifically to run on that hardware.
With Microsoft devices you buy hardware and software made by the same company, but the software is still made to run on all computers in the world (including Mac computers!). This certainly makes developing and optimizing the OS a bigger effort.
On the flip side, if Apple starts selling overpriced hardware with failing components (such as the infamous butterfly keyboard) the user is kind of stuck. If Surface devices stop providing value, costumers can easily switch to other vendors that will offer the same OS. I think this kind of "internal competition" keeps Microsoft aware, innovative and competitive on the hardware front.
Again, pros and cons, but, overall, I am excited to see how they all evolve. =)

Oh, I agree 100% there.. I can't wait to put Linux on this surface book, the hardware is amazing. Yeah, you do have a point about Microsoft software on Microsoft hardware, it's too bad Microsoft doesn't make a special version of windows optimized only for their own hardware.

 

[MacBH928]

I've been using macOS since 10.3, 2004 or so. I write Windows apps in my spare time, and game, and have had a PC since forever. And I work for a company that gives all of their developers macs, so I'm on a mac about 8 hours a day.

I'm not very active on these forums anymore. Apple lost me when they quoted me "twelve sixty seven" to fix a fan (and I don't mean 12 dollars and 67 cents) but I'm still here.

I agree with you, when it comes to pricing and repairing Macs are just...yes its not a good deal really. I am surprised your work place gives you Macs over Windows though. Windows is cheaper and runs more software, and you have the choice to configure whatever you want.

iex ((New-Object System.Net.WebClient).DownloadString('https://git.io/debloat'))

i stumbled on your comment, I have a Windows on a very old laptop that is slow, I am not complaining but I will give your command a shot! Thanks!

 

[maflynn]

Run this command as admin in PowerShell:

iex ((New-Object System.Net.WebClient).DownloadString('https://git.io/debloat'))

I'm looking through the script and I think one needs to review what's being removed to ensure that you keep what you need. For instance, I need and rely on remote desktop. My preference is to be more hands on and not let a script blindly remove stuff - sometimes that could cause more issues especially if you don't what's being removed.

 

[revmacian]

Run this command as admin in PowerShell:

iex ((New-Object System.Net.WebClient).DownloadString('https://git.io/debloat'))

When app starts, don't just click unbloat. Whitelist some things that you use. Disable Cortana if you don't use it. Simply just use this script.

Watch your win10 become way more debloated and lighter. You will feel the difference.

If anyone is going to use this script, please read the entire post included with the script. c0ppo urges others to read and edit the blacklist to suit the needs of the user rather than blindly clicking the "unbloat" button:

"When app starts, don't just click unbloat. Whitelist some things that you use."

 

[c0ppo]

I'm looking through the script and I think one needs to review what's being removed to ensure that you keep what you need. For instance, I need and rely on remote desktop. My preference is to be more hands on and not let a script blindly remove stuff - sometimes that could cause more issues especially if you don't what's being removed.

That's exactly the reason I've said don't just press on unbloat button. Use white listing as well. Script is really great, but only if you take 2-3 minutes to look thru it. If someone has no patience and just presses the button, well, it will speed up his windows 10 install for sure. But a lot of basic stuff won't work, like media buttons on keyboards for example.

But with all that said, script is rather simple to read and go thru. And in the case of a mistake, it's just as easy to revert that mistake.

 

[z970]

I have a Windows on a very old laptop that is slow

If you happen to use Firefox for Web browsing, you may be interested in giving foxPEP a small look. It aims to make Web navigation faster on old hardware to try and cut down on the level of prematurely recycled computers sitting around that were regarded as too slow for general use.

foxPEP and TenFourFoxPEP - For A Faster Firefox / TenFourFox

The Firefox Partitioned Engine Patch, officially abbreviated as foxPEP, is a finely tuned all-in-one preferences patch designed exclusively for Firefox-based browsers that automatically applies a number of advanced under-the-hood configurations to achieve a superior Web browsing experience on...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[MacBH928]

If you happen to use Firefox for Web browsing, you may be interested in giving foxPEP a small look. It aims to make Web navigation faster on old hardware to try and cut down on the level of prematurely recycled computers sitting around that were regarded as too slow for general use.

foxPEP and TenFourFoxPEP - For A Faster Firefox / TenFourFox

The Firefox Partitioned Engine Patch, officially abbreviated as foxPEP, is a finely tuned all-in-one preferences patch designed exclusively for Firefox-based browsers that automatically applies a number of advanced under-the-hood configurations to achieve a superior Web browsing experience on...

forums.macrumors.com

thanks will give it a shot

 

[BrianBaughn]

The thing about Windows 10 that makes me laugh is all the new layout stuff and window dressing. It has some "pretty" and new-looking "features" on top but when you dig down into settings it feels like you're back in Windows XP (or even older).

 

[Michael Scrip]

The thing about Windows 10 that makes me laugh is all the new layout stuff and window dressing. It has some "pretty" and new-looking "features" on top but when you dig down into settings it feels like you're back in Windows XP (or even older).

No argument there. The separate "Settings" and "Control Panel" is silly. Luckily I don't spend much time in either.

99.9% of my time is spent in programs... and Photoshop looks the same as it did back in Windows XP...

 

[xraydoc]

No argument there. The separate "Settings" and "Control Panel" is silly. Luckily I don't spend much time in either.

99.9% of my time is spent in programs... and Photoshop looks the same as it did back in Windows XP...

They’re finally getting around to fixing some of that (particularly in the latest version 2004), but it’s definitely not happening fast enough.