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Huntn

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Wesley Allison: "His Robot Girlfriend". (Free to download).

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Wesley Allison: "His Robot Wife".

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I enjoy Wesley's books. My favorite is "Princess of Amathar" (Free to download in July). No AI theme, though.

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Just finished His Robot Girlfriend based on a recommendation, and although it is an interesting topic set in the near future, about a widower in his 50s who purchases a full service companion android, if you get my drift, it changes his life and not just his sex life. I feel like there were some lost opportunities, such as how would both a routine and an intimate relationship be with an Android vs a human being? Or come up with some other story angle to make the story intriguing and memorable, for example Ex Machina, which was sterling.

Don’t plan on anything tittilating as the book frequently mentions sex, but completely sanitizes his sexual relationships other than something like she undressed and entertained him.

However, this story, if it illustrates anything to me, is that when the day comes that the technology and A.I, gets good enough, I could easily imagine humans choosing an Android over a human as a full time companion, who is basically a “yes” companion, decent conversation, knowlegible, no arguments, subtle emotions, although happiness is primary, a workaholic, keeps the house spotless, pushes a healthy lifestyle on the owner, and is usually happy always ready for sex or not, although it does not care for the Borg (Star Trek ref, they go to Vegas and a Star Trek show). :)

Anyway, if the tech was good enough, could you imagine adults choosing an A.I. Companion over a real person? Or would it get boring fast? I guess that depends on the programming. :)

I am considering reading the next book in the series.
 
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Huntn

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West World Series (2017-18 HBO) Excellent series, but I understand it won’t be everyone’s cup of tea.

The questions that are raised (again, a theme in SciFi) is what is reality? What separates a biological brain from an artificial brain, a capable intelligent computer, who sees the world around it, with enough computational power to understands it exists and can contemplate its existence?

The other unknown is what is consciousness? We know it exists, but don’t know from where and how it originates. What is the difference between a human with consciousness, and a capable machine who can think (compute), see the world around it, with the ability to make judgements and act on them?

I’ve asked before, if a copy of a human brain/intelligence/personality was created, and has the memories of the person it was designed after, would it be for all intents and purposes, be that person, recreated?

Now, we can think about the human soul as if that makes a difference, but I’ll ask let’s say you’ve experienced multiple lives and have been reincarnated. What do you know about your former lives? If suddenly they were revived in you, how would you know they were real memories, or implanted? You’d then remember them, but how would you know they were your memories?

The bottom line, what other than your perception, your choices, and especially your memories anchored in your mind, who you are, how do you identify yourself?
 
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Huntn

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Watching Westworld again and I stumbled across this excellent video:


The highlights:
  • We don’t know what consciousness is specifically, or I should say we know what it is, but we don’t know how it is. It could be a combination of computational power and application.
  • The human brain- almost a billion neurons, each with ten thousand connections to it’s neighbors, a thousand trillion connections.
  • The human brain spends more time visualizing the future or remembering the past, than it does in the present.
The revealing caveat of the Westworld story is that they have outfitted these androids with a brain that has more computing power than a human brain. According to the video, we first have to figure out how the brain works before we can start to replicate it.

As far as consciousness, right now we have computers that can out calculate us for very precise tasks, but nothing with the all around capacity and capability that humans possess.

Consciousness could simply be the computational capacity to free form think, along with the senses (sensors) required to connect us to our environment. In other words how much of consciousness is being connected to your environment with sensors and the computational ability to analyze it and yourself? Think about if you woke up, minus your primary senses, sight, touch, taste, hearing, smell, not to mention your secondary senses, what would you have to anchor you to your environment?

Check out this article about senses, which I pulled the list below from:

Traditional senses:
  • Sight (ophthalmoception) is the ability to perceive and process optical data from light and is related to visual memory.
  • Hearing (audioception) is a capacity to recognize auditory data from vibrations and is related to audial memory.
  • Taste (gustaoception) is the ability to perceive and process sweet, bitter, sour, salty and umami of molecules to detect minerals, vitamins, and poisons. It works hand-in-hand with sight, smell, and touch to make judgments about the food we eat. Taste is one of two “chemical senses”.
  • Smell (olfacoception) is the ability to perceive and process information from molecules in the air as a smell. Smell is a chemical sense like taste and uses hundreds of olfactory receptors to differentiate between smells.
  • Touch (tactioception) is the ability to perceive and process pressure-related information. The molecular makeup of atoms causes electrons to be structured themselves to give rise to different sensations from friction. We can also feel things like itching and other “touch senses” although pain is a separate sense.
Non-tradional Senses:
  • Balance and Acceleration (equilibrioception) is the ability to sense and process movement related to direction, balance, and acceleration, including angular and linear momentum, gravity and changes in speed.
  • Vibration (mechanoreceptor) is the ability to sense mechanical pressure and changes in pressure.
  • Temperature (thermoception) is the capacity to sense and process temperature (internal and external).
  • Kinesthetic sense (proprioception) is the ability to detect and handle movement relative to the rest of the body. For instance, it enables you to know your hand’s position relative to your trunk.
  • Pain (Nociception) is the ability to feel and process physiological pain in the skin, joints, bones, and organs. Pain helps shape our critical biases like, “don’t touch fire, fire hurts”.
  • Time (Chronoception) is the ability to sense and process the passage of time. The sense of time is not related to any known organ. Instead, it is a highly distributed system using different parts of the brain and varies widely from one individual to another.
Internal Senses:
  • Hunger sensor is a motivational state seen in all beings. In the past, it was sometimes seen as an aspect of lust. This sense comes from three of the five classic senses: sight, smell, and taste.
  • Respiratory rate sensor – Pulmonary stretch receptors are found in the lungs and control the respiratory rate.
  • Carbon dioxide level sensor – Peripheral chemoreceptors in the brain monitor the carbon dioxide and oxygen concentrations in the brain and give a warning feeling of suffocation if carbon dioxide levels get too high.
  • The nausea sensor – The chemoreceptor trigger zone is an area of the medulla in the brain that receives inputs from blood-borne drugs or hormones, and communicates with the vomiting center.
  • The high blood sugar sensor – Chemoreceptors in the circulatory systemalso measure salt levels and prompt thirst if they get too high. These sensors respond to high glucose levels in diabetics.
  • The blush sensorCutaneous receptors in the skin not only respond to touch, pressure, and temperature but also respond to vasodilation in the skin such as blushing.
  • The stomach gas sensor (AKA fart sensor) – Stretch receptors in the gastrointestinal tract sense gas distension that may result in colic pain.
  • The gag reflex sensorSensory receptors in pharynx mucosa, similar to touch receptors in the skin, sense foreign objects such as food that may result in a gag reflex and corresponding gagging sensation.
  • The “excretion” sensor – Stimulation of sensory receptors in the urinary bladder and rectum can lead to feelings of fullness.
  • The headache sensor – Stimulation of stretch sensors that sense dilation of various blood vessels may result in pain, for example, a headache caused by vasodilation of brain arteries.
Senses that animals other than humans have
  • The vomeronasal organ is an organ common in animals that is connected to the mouth cavity. It is used to detect pheromones. Being able to sense pheromones helps animals sense marked territory and other animals ready for mating.
  • Echolocation is the ability to sense and process sound using sonar to retrieve spacial information. We have anecdotal evidence of this sense existing in some people. There is a useful YouTube video about one of many blind people who navigate using sonar here.[6]
  • Electroreception (electroception) is the ability to sense and process electric fields. For instance sharks and dolphins can use the ability to sense weak electric fields of schools of fish or use electrical signals to communicate.
  • Magnetoception (or magnetoreception) is the capacity to sense and process magnetic fields, specifically the earth’s magnetic field. This works as an internal compass for animals and helps birds, mice, bacteria, and insects navigate their environment.[7]
  • Plant and other organism senses. Plants have a wide variety of senses unique to the plant kingdom. They can sense light, gravity, temperature, humidity, chemical substances, chemical gradients, reorientation, magnetic fields, infections, tissue damage and mechanical pressure. Also, in this respect, bacteria, archaea, fungi, and one would assume algae have unique senses (although I have to confirm this per case). One example is that bacteria and archaea use quorum sensing, a system of stimuli and response correlated to population density.
 
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Thomas Veil

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Some excellent ones in this thread already. I'd like to add I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream by Harlan Ellison. A computer AI, known as AM, imprisons the last few humans on the planet, and tortures them. The remaining humans are trying to escape from AM but are also trying to overcome their own demons. It's not a long story, and is often included in collective works. They even adapted a computer adventure game after the story in the 90s.
I read “I Have No Mouth...” in the interim between when you posted this and now, and jeez! It is profoundly depressing.

Ellison had a very dark imagination, but this may have been one of his darkest stories.

(And something comes to mind because I just started watching it: the new series Tales from the Loop has an Ellisonian feel to it. It’s not specifically about AI, but I could see Ellison writing for it if he were still with us.)
 
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Huntn

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More Westworld talk, regarding the hypothetical ability of AI to achieve consciousness, although this is based on human imagination and fiction, the following is a good explanation, at least it sounds like a good explanation of how consciousness might be achieved.

How would your describe your consciousnes?
In as few words as possible, it’s an inner monologue, the ability to consider and evaluate fed by your senses. As per my previous post, I think our senses play a huge role in our perception of our consciousness.

The question is, would this benefit humans or threaten them? We watched enough Skynet type scenarios as warnings.
pastedGraphic.png
:)

Arnold theorized that he could create consciousness by guiding a Host through levels of increasing complexity: memory, improvisation, self-interest, and then finally an internal monologue through which consciousness would be achieved. While hosts are in their behavior loops, they are simply following pre-programmed decision-tree branches, and cannot learn from prior experiences, even on a subconscious level.

On at least two occasions (by Arnold, and then in "The Original" by Ford) some Hosts have been programmed with an update which includes a class of gestures called Reveries, fleeting sub-conscious memories of prior loops, which leads to basic improvisation — Ford states that this was in the hope it would help them refine their behavior to be more realistic.

Giving a Host true longstanding memory, however, gives them a coherent set of experiences to draw upon; this seems to lead to distinct personalities, self-awareness, and actions taken in their own self-interest. Given that it was Arnold who first gave Hosts Reveries, it's possible that self-awareness, and not added realism, was the intention of Reveries.

This theory is given more weight when Ford explains to Bernard his key insight into the human condition: suffering. Ford believes that it is through suffering that humans gain greater awareness of themselves, learn from their mistakes, and grow. Ford believed that allowing hosts to recall their past suffering through Reveries would help jolt them toward consciousness and self-actualization.
 

Huntn

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What is really interesting is the evolution of android stories that produce artificial humans so close to human that it’s not easy to tell them apart.

  • Bladerunner‘s Without an autopsy, Replicants require an empathy test for christ’s sake. That’s pretty darn good AI. ;)
  • Synths (Fallout 4) biologically engineered, rumored to have replaced known humans in the Commonwealth and so good no one knew.
  • Hosts (Westworld) required a base of the skull scan for easy identification although an autopsy would reveal them.
  • Cylons in Battlestar Galactica have transitioned to a biological basis. Not sure of what an autopsy would reveal as human/Cylon babies have been born.
  • Clones in The Island. Call them biological, but they are engineered and come into the world as adults.
  • David in A.I. artificial intelligence, definitely a machine, but petty good human imitator unless he eats a mouthful of spinach. ;)
  • others?
 

D.T.

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@Huntn Hey, have you checked out Devs yet? DEFINITELY on topic with this thread, really fantastic stuff. I think I mentioned it in the TV thread, it's on Hulu as part of their FX cross service development deal, it was created/written/directed by Alex Garland, that probably tells you all you need know :)

I will say, it's a touch less accessible than typical programming, but brilliant nonetheless.
 

Huntn

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@Huntn Hey, have you checked out Devs yet? DEFINITELY on topic with this thread, really fantastic stuff. I think I mentioned it in the TV thread, it's on Hulu as part of their FX cross service development deal, it was created/written/directed by Alex Garland, that probably tells you all you need know :)

I will say, it's a touch less accessible than typical programming, but brilliant nonetheless.
I’ve heard about it, would watch it, but am hesitant to subcribe to another service. Is that $6/ month with ads, and $12/month no adds?
 

D.T.

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I’ve heard about it, would watch it, but am hesitant to subcribe to another service. Is that $6/ month with ads, and $12/month no adds?

Yeah, I hear ya, I mean, unless there was a bunch of other things for you to watch, it's yet another pay service (your pricing looks correct).

However, they do have a free one month trial :) It's almost worth the hassle of subscribing and cancelling, just for Devs :D
[automerge]1588529972[/automerge]
Hmmm, since that's FX on Hulu, I think it comes back to FX at some point, maybe even now[?] Maybe auth FX via your cable sub (if you have one, I can't recall).
 
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Huntn

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Yeah, I hear ya, I mean, unless there was a bunch of other things for you to watch, it's yet another pay service (your pricing looks correct).

However, they do have a free one month trial :) It's almost worth the hassle of subscribing and cancelling, just for Devs :D
[automerge]1588529972[/automerge]
Hmmm, since that's FX on Hulu, I think it comes back to FX at some point, maybe even now[?] Maybe auth FX via your cable sub (if you have one, I can't recall).
Hmm, for a free month I could justify this as worthwhile with both Devs and Hand Maid’s Tale (I read the book). :)
 

Huntn

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Ok, watched Devs- thumbs up. I looked at Hand Maid’s Tale and decided against it because I read the book, and don’t think I want to watch 4 seasons of women being abused and pressed under people’s thumbs. ;)

Devs Talk
Regarding Devs (Hulu) and AI, not sure this show applies as an AI story because of the way it is presented.

If you want to walk into Devs oblivious, than stop reading here. :D

I started a Devs thread, but almost no one cared, no problem, comes with the territory especially with science fiction. :)

Devs is really intriguing from a quantum universe aspect, ie, we now know about it, we study it, and we are learning about existence/our reality on the quantum level, and how that relates to our reality. The idea that a particle of matter can not only be in two places at once, but can be everywhere at once, kind of gives our existence/reality a mysterious magical quality.

Most mind bending concepts presented in this show are of a quantum record of the time line that can be examined going backwards and can be projected forward with certainty, can be visualized, and not only that, but that we exist on rails, with limited, if any free will.

This is where Devs shines and it’s a shocking reveal of the character Forest’s outlook, who would fire a lead programmer for using a logarithm that supports the idea of the multiverse, because still feeling the loss of wife and child, dictates research on an emotional level and wants to only see his real daughter, not a daughter from a parallel universe. All very interesting stuff at least to me. :D

Series Final Spoiler
The huge reveal from the Series final is where AI may appear, but I’m not certain. The Devs Computer System (as portrayed in the show) not only can observe the universe, past, present, and future, but that they created a simulation of that universe based on their observation and collection of data. In the series final after dying in the real world, Forest and Lilly find themselves in this simulation with their memories intact, based on data gathered about them and this universe.

It is a theme that has been explored previously, such as in Star Trek Next Gen episode, The Schizoid Man that presumes the essence of a human mind, their identity can be reduced to a data set for not only an accurate representation/simulation of them, but in essence *is* them, versus a copy of them. We as human beings, possess self awareness, a sense of oneness, uniqueness, a singular existence. Soul is often associated with perception of our uniqueness.

In Devs, the real question becomes what have Forest and Lilly become and more importantly, can their entity be captured to a point of being just a simulation of them, who have the memories of those people, who think they are those people, but the original Forrest and Lilly no longer exist?

Or have they, themselves been transferred into this alternate reality? Is there an unbroken continuation of consciousness? Secondly is there any AI programming involved or do they exist and function only by virtue of their data that possesses the ability to function on its own?

This is why I’m not sure that AI in the traditional sense, (something created by humans to give machines the ability to make decisions) applies to this story. For all I know, a celestial AI is working behind the scene (if not artificial call it a celestial intelligence) that has a bearing on every action we take, make, or think we decided on our own. And then there is biological intelligence/ programming, I’ll stop there. ?
 

Huntn

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Bobiverse Trilogy- Spoilers


016C1A55-58F9-47E3-85D2-C315F9B0F3E8.png


I’m reading the Bobiverse Triology, books published in 2016-17 which goes with the idea that if you mine every bit of data, memories, knowledge, contained intelligence, you could electronically transfer this into a functional A.I. personality, a replica of that human. I describe the story as a light, but entertaining read.

A replicant is fitted to a ship with the ability to mine raw material, and includes 3D printer technology that allows this ship to create new hardware, and more replicants, and spread throughout the universe during a time when the human race on Earth is in the process of killing itself off.

The most single interesting aspect of the premise is that if you take an electronic copy of the human brain, which is called a Replicant, and make a copy of that, instead of ending up with an identical copy, you end up with a variance of the original personality almost the way genes are spread from parents to children and each child is different.

As the story progresses, replicants reproduce themselves and spread out across the galaxy making all sorts of discoveries, face challenges and help Humans on Earth survive. There are quite a few Bobs who end up flying around the Galaxy. :)

29 May Update: Finished the series, critique here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-book-are-you-reading.1080245/post-28514825
 
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Huntn

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Brought from: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-movie-are-you-watching.1069107/post-28771294

I could watch this movie every day and never get tired of it. I’ve already peppered my thoughts on this movie many times over, however; for a movie cast consisting of three actors, it’s an incredible movie trickled with mind games of ‘I’m one step ahead you’. Domnhall Gleeson and Oscar Isaac Trying to outsmart each other in this movie was so brilliantly acted, it makes me want to watch this movie right now. And don’t even get me started on Alicia Vikander’s performance, we seriously don’t see enough of her on the big screen, she is incredibly talented. (And she nailed her role in the Jason Bourne reboot).
Started this unknowingly, concerned about the title thinking Manga (not that I think Manga is inheriently bad) and this instantly became my favorite AI movie because it explores the concept of morality and empathy in A.I and to a lesser extent has you questioning what consciousness is. Is this a program runnng with just the abilty to give the appropriate responses to fool you, or has it the actual ability to consider it’s existence? A surprisingly old story, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1966) does an excellent job of portraying AI consciousness and it can be wondered about that once we get a computer with the equivalent of 100B neurons, a thousand trillion connections, the programming to sense itself and the world, could there be a threshold where consciousness, self awareness, and individualism is achieved?
 

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Brought from: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-movie-are-you-watching.1069107/post-28771294


Started this unknowingly, concerned about the title thinking Manga (not that I think Manga is inheriently bad) and this instantly became my favorite AI movie because it explores the concept of morality and empathy in A.I and to a lesser extent has you questioning what consciousness is. Is this a program runnng with just the abilty to give the appropriate responses to fool you, or has it the actual ability to consider it’s existence? A surprisingly old story, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1966) does an excellent job of portraying AI consciousness and it can be wondered about that once we get a computer with the equivalent of 100B neurons, a thousand trillion connections, the programming to sense itself and the world, could there be a threshold where consciousness, self awareness, and individualism is achieved?

I’ll look into it that film. What’s Amazing, is that man can program AI to be extremely intelligent and adapt to the persons Demeanor, emotional responses and gauge every facet how that individual reacts, but yet the AI trumps the man who created the program by learning At an incredible rate. Have you watch the movie ‘Her’ with Joaquin Phoenix/Scar-Jo? (I’ve also discussed that in movie thread extensively), it’s excellent. But it shows you how an algorithm/AI can process 100,000 times more than what a human brain can. So there again, man creates computer—>but computer outsmarts man. Rather ironic.
 
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Huntn

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I’ll look into it that film. What’s Amazing, is that man can program AI to be extremely intelligent and adapt to the persons Demeanor, emotional responses and gauge every facet how that individual reacts, but yet the AI trumps the man who created the program by learning At an incredible rate. Have you watch the movie ‘Her’ with Joaquin Phoenix/Scar-Jo? (I’ve also discussed that in movie thread extensively), it’s excellent. But it shows you how an algorithm/AI can process 100,000 times more than what a human brain can. So there again, man creates computer—>but computer outsmarts man. Rather ironic.
So we could be in the realm of self aware A.I. :)
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a novel, not sure if there if is a movie.
 

44267547

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So we could be in the realm of self aware A.I. :)
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a novel, not sure if there if is a movie.

Oh, I misread that. I thought you were implying that was a movie. If it’s a book, I probably won’t read it.😁
 

Polly Mercocet

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There's a couple episodes of Black Mirror that touch on AI as I recall. Certainly on machine learning and algorithms taking over our lives which is... exactly what is happening.

If you want old school proper classics of course the go to is Asimov. The three laws have been used in or at least referenced by most sci-fi dealing with issues of AI ever since. And honestly although it has nothing to do with the original book, the Will Smith film I, Robot is pretty good in my opinion because it's stood the test of time despite being from 2004 and it does a good job of exploring the implications of AI and the three laws while still being an entertaining action film.

Oh and here's something related and funny because why not?

 
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Polly Mercocet

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Currently watching the UK TV series Humans which is very good. It's on Netflix UK not sure about other countries.

Kind of falls into what I said about Asimov, there's a direct reference in this: the "synths" (robots) are bound by a set of rules based on the three laws of robotics, in the show this is referred to as an "Asimov lock."

The show is about a small group of synths who were developed to have full human-like consciousness, while the rest are far more basic.

Worth the watch if this is your type of thing.
 

wordsworth

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I recently read an excellent short story in the Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction by American author Ian Tregillis. It was something of a 'prequel' to his novel The Mechanical, the first in a trilogy (and all now published) and bearing the umbrella title The Alchemy Wars. I was really impressed at the quality of the writing and the way he'd created an alternative history and world in which mechanical servants are at the beck and call of their human masters and mistresses. Having enjoyed the short story so much I am about to begin reading the first of his Alchemy Wars books.

I watched Humans on TV and found it quite engaging though it didn't come up with anything new. I also recently finished the first season of Lost In Space (reboot) and didn't feel shortchanged. I'll certainly check out the second season. On the other hand, I haven't been in any hurry to watch season two of Star Trek: Discovery (though of course it's only a matter of time). And no one seems to have mentioned Bender in Futurama. Great character!
 
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Huntn

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Brought from another thread:
Actually it illustrates one of the chief limitations of machine learning, including A.I.. GIGO = Garbage in, Garbage out.
The idea has been floated that human being have something equivalent to a built in flexible, moral compass. When trying to emulate a human being with AI, I’d think that for 2001 and HAL that something along the lines of Asimov’s 3 Robotic rules would have been helpful. HAL got it in his processor, that his role in the mission was most important, more so than a human life.

Another great example is Ex Machina where the AI model functions as an unhappy prisoner, given the challenge to convince a human to help them based on empathy, but the model lacks adequate respect for human life.
 
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