Can we get some real clarification on replacing default apps?

[shenfrey]

I keep hearing different things from different people and I am just after a SIMPLE, definitive answer.

The question is, if you delete a default app, such as mail, and download a third party app such as Gmail for example, does default mail functionality within iOS default to Gmail?

Examples. If I ask Siri to send a mail, will it use Gmail?

If I click on an email address on a webpage, will it open up a compose window within Gmail?

This extends across other apps too of course, such as calendar, photos and maps.

Thanks

 

[0007776]

I'd be curious to know as well. Mostly for maps, I'd like Siri to be able to use Google maps, but I could also see it requiring Google to implement 3rd party Siri commands.

 

[drunkenmonkey87]

I just deleted the mail app however when I click an email link on a webpage it opens up the normal iOS email compose window but the send button is permanently disabled.

 

[shenfrey]

I'd be curious to know as well. Mostly for maps, I'd like Siri to be able to use Google maps, but I could also see it requiring Google to implement 3rd party Siri commands.

More annoyingly, specific 3rd party commands, such as "plan a route from x to y on google maps"

I just deleted the mail app however when I click an email link on a webpage it opens up the normal iOS email compose window but the send button is permanently disabled.

This is frustrating, there needs to be an option to replace these, otherwise the option to delete default apps is a self harming one in most cases.

 

[KarimLeVallois]

There was a tweet from the makers of Spark email that said it was looking forward to being a default email app and that Apple were apparently all over giving that operation in later betas.... Fingers crossed!

https://twitter.com/SparkMailApp/status/742466640961359874

https://twitter.com/SparkMailApp/status/742468490670444549

 

[GreyOS]

There was a tweet from the makers of Spark email that said it was looking forward to being a default email app and that Apple were apparently all over giving that operation in later betas.... Fingers crossed!

https://twitter.com/SparkMailApp/status/742466640961359874

https://twitter.com/SparkMailApp/status/742468490670444549

your account of their comments doesn't match those tweets - did they make comments elsewhere?

 

[stulaw11]

They are guessing at best. No one knows frankly.

Im pretty sure if they intended this to be possible in iOS10 at some point it would've been a huge talking point for devs to get their apps ready for.

 

[Crzyrio]

More annoyingly, specific 3rd party commands, such as "plan a route from x to y on google maps"



This is frustrating, there needs to be an option to replace these, otherwise the option to delete default apps is a self harming one in most cases.

This will take time.

Developers have not made their apps to be used in this kind of way. This will be functionality they will have to add.

That being said, I completely understand why Apple did not want to give away control of default apps its just asking for trouble.

 

[KarimLeVallois]

your account of their comments doesn't match those tweets - did they make comments elsewhere?

If you noticed I edited my comment to include the actual tweets as I wrote my initial one by memory rather than getting the tweets, I was in the middle of something else while typing. The Spark developers were actually at WWDC and tweeted pics with Tim, so may have asked a few questions, not sure?

 

[mattoligy]

Very good news. There seems to be a lot going on at wwdc and more to come in future betas. Can't wait.

 

[stulaw11]

Random guesses no more educated than ours at this time. Apple hasnt announced anything

 

[devinthomas]

I would think developers likely paying for WWDC would know something about Apple's plans

 

[stulaw11]

You assume that Apple wants to divulge those plans this early in Beta 1. Readdle is simply guessing from what I know and assuming removing the stock icons equals Apple will let you set default apps.

Im pretty sure that would've been a MAJOR OS talking point to say coming soon. Many features are not in Beta 1 but were announced.

Further we have already learned the stock apps are not in fact removed but merely hidden.

 

[mattoligy]

Im pretty sure that would've been a MAJOR OS talking point to say coming soon.

They spoke nothing of deleting stock apps so why would they talk about app defaults?

 

[stulaw11]

They spoke nothing of deleting stock apps so why would they talk about app defaults?

Because you're not deleting stock apps its already confirmed you're merely hiding the icon and some of the app's cache. That's not a "major feature" such as setting new default app would be in terms of the OS.

Im pretty sure someone at WWDC had the thought and asked well before someone on Macrumors thought of it. If there was a yes it would've been MAJOR news since.

You have one dev making a guess who took a photo with Tim Cook and everyone wants to fall down the rabbit hole now. Emphasis added:

SparkMail‏@SparkMailApp
To clarify: you can't email something if you deleted a mail app. But I think Apple team is working on adding default apps.

 

[tjwilliams25]

It's apparent that Apple is moving in this direction, it's just not complete yet. It's not as simple as just deleting core apps and replacing it with a different one. There are frameworks that rely on those stock apps and completely removing them would break more features and other apps, that's why Apple doesn't allow this. However, I can definitely see Apple allowing setting default apps somewhere in the future as the footwork is already there in the current beta.

 

[stulaw11]

It's apparent that Apple is moving in this direction, it's just not complete yet. It's not as simple as just deleting core apps and replacing it with a different one. There are frameworks that rely on those stock apps and completely removing them would break more features and other apps, that's why Apple doesn't allow this. However, I can definitely see Apple allowing setting default apps somewhere in the future as the
footwork is already there in the current beta.

Well said. I agree they are going this way but not yet due to the frameworks and APIs, and they simply haven't worked it all out yet.

I dont see it in 10.0, maybe a later version of 10 and this is the first step towards that. But to reply on some developers guess and some Apple confirmation is irresponsible at best.

 

[Skoal]

I deleted Calendar in place of Fantastical. However if you try to use Reminders/notes app it forces you to download Calendar app. Makes sense I suppose but it's not what I expected. This Beta is buggy as hell but that's not bizarre either

 

[KarimLeVallois]

The current implementation in beta 1 makes no sense what-so-ever. So they give use the option to "delete" apps (well hide them really), but when you click on calendar, mail and reminder links it says you have to reinstall the default apps? That is just stupid! If being able to choose default apps wasn't coming why would they be putting in a halfhearted implementation now, why not wait until it was all ready to go? I doubt even Apple would inconvenience its users until a later point launch just to get half a solution out.

 

[GreyOS]

The current implementation in beta 1 makes no sense what-so-ever. So they give use the option to "delete" apps (well hide them really), but when you click on calendar, mail and reminder links it says you have to reinstall the default apps? That is just stupid! If being able to choose default apps wasn't coming why would they be putting in a halfhearted implementation now, why not wait until it was all ready to go? I doubt even Apple would inconvenience its users until a later point launch just to get half a solution out.

It could just as easily be for people who don't use the apps and don't want them on their home screen.As far as that goes, it does its job well. Using third party apps is no easier or harder with this change.

 

[KarimLeVallois]

It could just as easily be for people who don't use the apps and don't want them on their home screen.As far as that goes, it does its job well. Using third party apps is no easier or harder with this change.

But getting popups all the time telling you to download a default app is just plain annoying. I keep getting calendar ones and as far as I know I'm not even clicking on calendar related things. May be the beta, but if not this is going to frustrate many people.

 

[GreyOS]

But getting popups all the time telling you to download a default app is just plain annoying. I keep getting calendar ones and as far as I know I'm not even clicking on calendar related things. May be the beta, but if not this is going to frustrate many people.

Ah I see. I thought it was only happening when you clicked stuff that opens those apps. people who don't use those apps just wouldn't click them, or would click them and it'd open in an app they didn't use which is just as annoying. But if it's showing without any user action that sounds wrong...

 

[AndyK]

http://www.imore.com/how-deleting-apple-apps-works-in-ios-10

This explains it from and interview with Craig Federighi.

The difference is, when you delete a built-in app, you don't really delete it. You do remove the icon from the Home screen, the user data is flushed, and the hooks into the system for things like default links and Siri handling are remove. But, it doesn't delete the actual app binary.

There are two reasons for this:

1. Apple's built-in apps are very, very small, taking up only 150 MB of storage. That's because they wrap a lot of core functionality and so don't introduce a lot of extraneous code or assets.
   
   
2. When a version of iOS is released, Apple signs it so your iPhone or iPad can verify it's legitimate and hasn't been tampered with by a third party. That code signing covers the entirety of iOS, including built-in apps. If everyone had different apps, some present, some not, the current form of signing security wouldn't work.[\quote]

 

[shenfrey]

It could just as easily be for people who don't use the apps and don't want them on their home screen.As far as that goes, it does its job well. Using third party apps is no easier or harder with this change.

You missed his point. Hiding them is all well and good, but you then cannot use them. As far as the system is concerned you are deleting them, because they are no longer useable. If we could literally just hide them, but still use them within deep links, then it would be as you mentioned.

 

[GreyOS]

You missed his point. Hiding them is all well and good, but you then cannot use them. As far as the system is concerned you are deleting them, because they are no longer useable. If we could literally just hide them, but still use them within deep links, then it would be as you mentioned.

Honestly, I think it was you who missed his point. He doesn't mention what you said at all. Please read his post again.

His post is actually an argument for why Apple must be working on a default app system which they will release before 7.0 final. But the argument is very weak when you break it down and pretty much goes like this:
1. I think Apple are working on a default app system.
2. Their current way of deleting stock apps isn't a complete implementation of that system.
3. Therefore they must be working to complete their default app system.

But what I tried to say is that if you take away the assumption in point 1, and suggest instead that maybe Apple are simply providing a way for people who don't use stock apps to hide them, then if you judge the feature purely on that desire, this feature fulfills that desire. You don't reach the conclusion in point 3. And yes, what I've said is a bit tautological, but my point here is we can't assume what Apple are doing or planning based on this ability to delete stock apps. Removing stock apps is removing stock apps, and that's all it is, for now. Understand this and you'll realise how silly this sentence sounds: "Hiding them is all well and good, but you then cannot use them."