It's needed now more than ever for those who are being vocal about it.
You are being vocal about it and yet you don't claim to need more than 16gb. Seems like you're proving the OP's point.
It's needed now more than ever for those who are being vocal about it.
There are an awful lot of people running into performance issues with virtualisation and in 99,9% of the time they are to blame. A lot of people think that you need to assign lots of memory and CPUs/cores to a virtual machine to have good performance while in fact it does the exact opposite. If you want good performance then stick with the defaults and adjust, in small increments, accordingly. This is because these people do not understand system resources and do not understand that virtualisation means that you have to manage those resources. It actually requires you to calculate and think.Another often quoted examples is running multiple VMs for browser testing. Although here again, I have to ask whether it is really nessesary to give every VM 4GB of dedicated RAM and/or have all of them resident at the same time. And maybe also invest into the ability to reuse RAM across VMS — two VMs with the same OS are probably going to share a lot of data that doesn't nessesary have to be doubled in RAM (like the base OS kernel code).
You are being vocal about it and yet you don't claim to need more than 16gb. Seems like you're proving the OP's point.
Good luck finding LPDDR3 RAM that you can insert into a slot...
I'll take none replaceable fast and efficient RAM over user replaceable slower RAM for the time being. Computers just aren't like they used to be, software just doesn't take full advantage of the hardware. Years ago it would be common to upgrade your machine, and RAM was always the first option as prices come down. These days 16GB will still feel fast in 4-5 years, so I don't have a need to upgrade it. I also get these things to last 4-5 years so if the RAM lasts as long as the machine, I'll be looking to upgrade the system at that point not just the RAM. In the meantime, I get lightning fast RAM, low power consumption and a really portable machine.
Lol my what lifestyle? Did you mean sedentary?
Sedimentation is the collective name for processes that cause mineral and/or organic particles (detritus) to settle in place.
Buddy I'm idling at 75GB of memory used on my Mac Pro 2010 with 128GB of RAM. Earlier today I was hovering around 100GB.
People saying "I'm a professional! I only use 8gb!" is.... bizarre.
Great! You're fine then! There's a huge swath of professionals though - especially developers - who have been aching to upgrade for years and are now stuck in an impossible position outside of going Hackintosh.
....With no swap used.Buddy I'm idling at 75GB of memory used on my Mac Pro 2010 with 128GB of RAM. Earlier today I was hovering around 100GB.
Well, on the other hand there are results that clearly show that intense video editing workflows linearly benefit from more RAM. Although, to me it almost sounds like problem with the editor software, probably suboptimal algorithms.
Another often quoted examples is running multiple VMs for browser testing. Although here again, I have to ask whether it is really nessesary to give every VM 4GB of dedicated RAM and/or have all of them resident at the same time. And maybe also invest into the ability to reuse RAM across VMS — two VMs with the same OS are probably going to share a lot of data that doesn't nessesary have to be doubled in RAM (like the base OS kernel code).
All in all, being somewhat of a data scientist who regularly has to work on hundreds-of-GB to multi-TB data sets, I don't really see the point having more than 16GB for me. Its enough working space to solve most problems and I don't believe that I would be able to solve them more efficiently if I had more RAM. After all, more RAM = more cache pollution. And if I really need more RAM... well, for that I have a supercomputer that has 4TB of RAM
I wish I had a better understanding of VMs. Being an electrical engineering student and photoshop hobbyist, my demands have never made my MacBook Pro with 8gb or ram or even my windows desktop still only using 4gb of ram for autoCAD and inventor still do fine.
I know I'm not in the minority that needs the RAM, but what do people that work with VMs do?
As the link in the OP shows you need to do a whole lot more than what you are describing there and even then it won't fill up the 16GB memory.
There are many different ways in doing those jobs and many of them can be done with 4 to 8GB of memory or even less. It all depends on the exact workflow. If you absolutely need 16GB for that I'd strongly suggest taking a very good look at your workflow and software used because needing a lot of memory usually means there is something wrong with either the workflow or the software used.
Boot camp and kernel_task take up 6gb right off the bat. Chrome and firefox a few more gb, spotify 1gb, android studio another few gb, 2 or more instances of eclipse- wait a minute, I shouldn't have to justify why I need more ram. I need it and I was ready to pay for it. Folks who are probably younger than me and not professional engineers think they know better than me how much ram I need!
and always amazing how much Chrome takes up.
Actually you are the one belonging to the "not professional engineer and knowing it better than an engineer" group because how you think the memory system works is absolutely incorrect and very very outdated (we are talking DOS and the early days of Windows; it's almost about 15 years out of date). There are some knowledge base articles from Apple that explain how the memory system in OS X/macOS works which you really need to go through (Use Activity Monitor to read system memory and determine how much RAM is being used (OS X Mountain Lion and earlier) & Use Activity Monitor on your Mac; these are also available via the help function in Activity Monitor). These are for users like you, those with a better and more technical understanding can head over to developer.apple.com for a more in-depth version.Boot camp and kernel_task take up 6gb right off the bat. Chrome and firefox a few more gb, spotify 1gb, android studio another few gb, 2 or more instances of eclipse- wait a minute, I shouldn't have to justify why I need more ram. I need it and I was ready to pay for it. Folks who are probably younger than me and not professional engineers think they know better than me how much ram I need!
There are some knowledge base articles from Apple that explain how the memory system in OS X/macOS works which you really need to go through (Use Activity Monitor to read system memory and determine how much RAM is being used (OS X Mountain Lion and earlier) & Use Activity Monitor on your Mac; these are also available via the help function in Activity Monitor).
Any current operating system will try to use all available memory and it does so by allotting a bit more generous than normally as well as use it for caching. If an app is opened that requires more memory then the OS will take away the extra unnecessary memory it had allotted and give it to the app that really needs it. In some cases you'll also see a rise in swapping.
Actually you are the one belonging to the "not professional engineer and knowing it better than an engineer" group because how you think the memory system works is absolutely incorrect and very very outdated (we are talking DOS and the early days of Windows; it's almost about 15 years out of date). There are some knowledge base articles from Apple that explain how the memory system in OS X/macOS works which you really need to go through (Use Activity Monitor to read system memory and determine how much RAM is being used (OS X Mountain Lion and earlier) & Use Activity Monitor on your Mac; these are also available via the help function in Activity Monitor). These are for users like you, those with a better and more technical understanding can head over to developer.apple.com for a more in-depth version.
Any current operating system will try to use all available memory and it does so by allotting a bit more generous than normally as well as use it for caching. If an app is opened that requires more memory then the OS will take away the extra unnecessary memory it had allotted and give it to the app that really needs it. In some cases you'll also see a rise in swapping. In more recent OS X/macOS versions there is a better and easier way of displaying how well your memory usage is going. In the Activity Monitor there is a graph called "memory pressure" and only when that graph is red you can say you need more memory although this requires further investigation (there are quite a few very bad written apps that cause memory leaks; even extensions in web browsers such as AdBlock Plus are known to have memory issues and thus use up considerable amounts of memory). If it stays green or yellow then you clearly do not (yellow is more of a "maybe" and this may require further investigation).
Boot camp is something very different btw. It's not some process or thread in the OS but a more generic term for the set of apps and drivers that allow you to partition, install and run Windows on your Mac natively right next to OS X/macOS.
Also check whatever drivers and other kernel extensions you have installed as well as how long you haven't rebooted your machine. All these things greatly affect the kernel_task memory usage negatively.
The problem here is your complete lack of knowledge which is causing you to see a problem that may not even be there. Understand what memory is, what it is used for and how operating systems handle them (especially OS X/macOS) and you'll actually be able to tell if your memory usage requires additional physical memory. Until then you are just summing up numbers you don't know the meaning of. As with any issue you need to base your conclusion on the causes you found, not on what some app was displaying. Software can come with bugs causing heavy memory usage where the actual solution is to fix the bugs, not upgrade your RAM.
In addition to this, they can now swap with 3GB/s to the SSD, this makes 32GB RAM even less relevant. Most Users won't even notice they are swapping.Excellent and true article.
https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355
I am not a fanboy defending Apple, this is just how things are. I am a professional working in the game development industry for 10 years. I do everything from working in demanding 3D software, working on huge 8k textures (that's 8192x8129, almost 70 megapixel images) in Photoshop with lots of layers and sculpting in Zbrush and 3D Coat to running 3ds Max and Windows 10 in Parallels. I have 16Gb of RAM on my iMac, on my MacBook Pro, on my Windows 10 machine at work. I never ran out of memory.
I am not saying that no one needs more than 16. Some people do. Apple should give us the option to have 32Gb and hopefully - it will be available next year. What I am saying is that for a lot.... A LOT of "pros" - 16Gb is enough. And most people just think they need more, arbitrarily.
To quote the article:
"The MacBook Pro, as I’ve demonstrated, is more than capable of running a ridiculous number of “pro” apps without crossing the 16GB limit. It is, without a doubt, capable of adequately serving a vast majority of resource-hungry professionals such as myself, without breaking a sweat. The only thing, incidentally, breaking a sweat, are the people complaining about the number 16 on social media without actually understanding just how far that number gets you."
Some will be noticeable, some won't because the gains aren't that huge. This is similar to upgrading the physical memory. There have been many people who upgraded from 4 to 8GB and saw a real increase in performance but didn't see anything happening when they went from 8 to 16GB. The caching is more for small stuff like writing things to disk, hot loading apps (which means that apps will reload faster when you open them again after you closed them) and so on.So if extra memory is used for caching, etc. Then having less memory means more of it is used for apps. So relaunching apps, and less caching means less performance. Different kind of performance, but still less of it. So thereby less memory = less performance.
That would be the same thing. There are some applications where that fast SSD will work (mind you, this is a PCIe NVME SSD and it will be mostly the NVME part that people will notice) but for most people it's not going to be a huge upgrade from a SATA version. It's also these kind of SSDs that will make the additional performance you get from hot loading the apps disappear as the storage now is so fast that apps will load nearlyNot a critical requirement (need vs want), but I can argue do you really need a 3GB/read SSD...
Nope they don't. It depends on what you are going to use it for. Adding more memory is not going to make things faster as there is only so much you can cache.So if people want absolute performance out of their laptops they'll need more memory. Even if it's a little performance.. As little as the difference between 2gb and 3gb read speeds of SSDs that apple is touting around.
No just a bunch of whiners that do not understand technology but think they do.Is this what apple has become? Bunch of horribly condescending fanboys?
You could try bugging Adobe but people have been doing that for years now without much result so I guess you are better off using some other piece of software (which usually also is cheaper and doesn't come with some kind of subscription). But if you stick with Photoshop then yes, rebooting is all you can do because Photoshop is well known not to scale on hardware (if you have 12-cores it'll still use no more than 6 so why buy a more expensive 12-core if the cheaper 8-core gives you the same performance?).Guess I'll just reboot my machine all the time and fix the bug in photoshop that cause it to hold onto ram when its closed.
What you posted shows that you most definitely do NOT know what using up all the memory on a Mac is like. What you posted here is just general slowness that can be caused by a number of things. Someone who actually knows what he is doing will look for a couple of things so he can quickly narrow the options and find the actual cause. Leave the troubleshooting to us professionals, it really isn't all that simple (which all the incorrect information here clearly shows).I know what using up all the ram on a mac is like, I used to own a 8gb machine where it would max out all the time. You know when it happens when everything starts slowing down, its pretty simple actually, not sure if you can understand. I don't need to look at the memory pressure number because I know it is up if the interface begins to lag.
Some will be noticeable, some won't because the gains aren't that huge. This is similar to upgrading the physical memory. There have been many people who upgraded from 4 to 8GB and saw a real increase in performance but didn't see anything happening when they went from 8 to 16GB. The caching is more for small stuff like writing things to disk, hot loading apps (which means that apps will reload faster when you open them again after you closed them) and so on.
Caching does come at a cost though. The fact they you are keeping data in memory means that it holds old data. If you need something to refresh often because you have to have up to date data (more likely realtime data) then caching is something you do not want.
That would be the same thing. There are some applications where that fast SSD will work (mind you, this is a PCIe NVME SSD and it will be mostly the NVME part that people will notice) but for most people it's not going to be a huge upgrade from a SATA version. It's also these kind of SSDs that will make the additional performance you get from hot loading the apps disappear as the storage now is so fast that apps will load nearly
Nope they don't. It depends on what you are going to use it for. Adding more memory is not going to make things faster as there is only so much you can cache.
No just a bunch of whiners that do not understand technology but think they do.
You could try bugging Adobe but people have been doing that for years now without much result so I guess you are better off using some other piece of software (which usually also is cheaper and doesn't come with some kind of subscription). But if you stick with Photoshop then yes, rebooting is all you can do because Photoshop is well known not to scale on hardware (if you have 12-cores it'll still use no more than 6 so why buy a more expensive 12-core if the cheaper 8-core gives you the same performance?).
What you posted shows that you most definitely do NOT know what using up all the memory on a Mac is like. What you posted here is just general slowness that can be caused by a number of things. Someone who actually knows what he is doing will look for a couple of things so he can quickly narrow the options and find the actual cause. Leave the troubleshooting to us professionals, it really isn't all that simple (which all the incorrect information here clearly shows).
Ohhh ohhhh, alarm, alarm, did you realize you just downplayed your wifes job?My wife is a social media professional who has tons of browser tabs open and was always in swap space on her 6gb machine. She told her boss and was sent a new 32gb thinkpad that cost $1700. Nobody insulted her or told her she was using her computer wrong or that she had to change the way she was working. It was legit dipping into swap space and slowing down by 10x. Her new computer no longer dips into swap space and it "just works". I'm a professional engineer doing a lot more than having tons of browser tabs open but I can't get a 32gb machine because I use a mac. I dealt with it for a long time thinking a new release with more ram was just around the corner, but now I believe we may never see a macbook with more than 32gb ram. Apple isn't going to make a computer that works well for me, so why am I paying a premium for this just so I can take an ios job here and there? I am not sure it is worth it anymore.