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Half Baked

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 13, 2020
7
2
I am writing this post about an issue I've been having with my 2019 Macbook Pro running Catalina 10.15.5.

Often, when I open my laptop, the built-in keyboard and trackpad are unresponsive. If I don't close the laptop, a window will pop up after 15-30 seconds that says "Bluetooth keyboard setup. There isn't a keyboard connected."

This problem was frequently happening every single day. I tried the following things to no avail:
1. Resetting the SMC
2. Resetting the NVRAM
3. Rebooting in safe
4. Deleting potential problematic plist files as suggested in this article.

So I factory reset my Mac, reinstalled MacOS, then restored a backup from Time Machine.

Factory resetting has been the only thing that has had any positive impact on this issue. I encounter the problem much less often, but it isn’t gone completely. The keyboard and mouse are still occasionally unresponsive when I open my laptop, particularly if it is plugged in (though it happens when not plugged in too).

One thing to note is that the fingerprint reader/power button still works even if the rest of the keys on the keyboard don't—I can triple-click the power button to open the accessibility options, though I can’t select anything because this doesn’t cause the keyboard and trackpad to start working.

I'm certain this is a software issue. This problem started when I updated to one of the supplemental Catalina updates around 10.15.13/14 (I’ve learned my lesson about updating—if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it). My Mac has had no spills, drops, or other physical damage.

Additionally, waiting usually solves the problem. Meaning, when I open the lid and the keyboard and trackpad are unresponsive, if I wait a few seconds (or sometimes it takes up to a minute or two), then everything works and is responsive. Also, I am not the only one with this problem! I’ve come across several posts of people with the exact same problem (on the 16 inch Macbook Pro).

A solution would be much appreciated!
 
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ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
Have you asked Apple for a solution?

When you "factory reset" did you restore Catalina, or did you roll back to an earlier OS?

Does this happen when the Mac wakes from sleep, or only when starting up?

You may be convinced that this is a software-only issue, but I expect it's a combination of hardware and software.

My hypothetical scenario is: Something in the keyboard controller/hardware is intermittent. When the software periodically polls for the presence of hardware components, or the keyboard issues an interrupt (requests attention from the system), sometimes the keyboard and trackpad are detected, sometimes not. Software can magnify this - a change to timing (duration/frequency of polling) can affect the likelihood that the system detects or fails to detect the keyboard.

Under this scenario, it's logical to see the Bluetooth setup appear - having failed to find an internal keyboard, it looks for a USB or Bluetooth keyboard. Having failed to find a USB or Bluetooth keyboard, it invokes Bluetooth keyboard setup as if it was a new desktop Mac. Failing to find any keyboard, the process loops around and again looks for a hardware keyboard. And so on. That would explain why the internal keyboard is eventually recognized.

Basically, the new software/firmware (since keyboards are searched for prior to the OS boot as well as once the OS has booted) is doing things differently than before, and that difference has made the system more sensitive to an intermittent hardware failure.

Here's a test for you - does the Mac have any trouble detecting an external USB keyboard/mouse during startup?

Here's another test - can you successfully Option-boot or boot to Recovery, or is the keyboard equally intermittent?

The long and the short of it is, changes to software can sometimes magnify the impact of a pre-existing hardware fault.
 
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Half Baked

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 13, 2020
7
2
I restored Catalina when I factory reset.

This happens when the Mac wakes from sleep, not just when starting up.

Interesting hypothesis, I hadn't thought of that before. I will try your tests.
 
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ryan1uk

macrumors newbie
Jun 27, 2020
2
1
I'm having the exact same issue on my 16 inch MacBook Pro. Only got it yesterday and am seriously considering returning it.
 
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chudester

macrumors newbie
May 21, 2020
10
8
San Francisco, CA
So, I have about 10 MacBook Pro's in a fleet at our company that this happened to when we rolled out 10.15.3.
Keyboard/Trackpad work in UEFI/Pre-File Vault Login. As soon as the OS loads, the cursor is stuck in the left top corner of the screen. It's important to note that plugging in an external mouse or keyboard once at the desktop will unlock the trackpad/keyboard built internally. I have noticed that WiFi icon in the status bar is completely gone when the trackpad/keyboard is locked. If I let the machines go to sleep on their own and wake up, the peripherals work and all seems well and good. This is definitely a software issue. All hardware works in macOS Recovery and in pre-login phase. And to the other member's point, the TouchID button works as well. Apple Forums is littered with this issue. I also thought this was related to Legacy Kext since we have several programs running for security and monitoring and this is not the case. Backing up the machines and restoring in full BRINGS THE ISSUE BACK.So now I restore just the user accounts and no system settings. The machine is much faster and I'm able to reboot several times without seeing the issue return all while having the data restored. Also - logging into another account still has the issue, so it's not the profile itself. SMC, PRAM, and even an in-place upgrade will not solve your issue. This has to be something directly addressed within Catalina to resolve. I've submitted feedback to Apple, but it'll be a long shot before I hear anything back. Until then, I just have to lead a parade of backups and restorations luckily for a small org. I wouldn't want to be any IT Manager or Helpdesk Specialist for mid to full size org as this is a pain. I already know I'll be extensively testing Big Sur before implementing in our environment as Catalina was a fu**ing nightmare.
 

ryan1uk

macrumors newbie
Jun 27, 2020
2
1
Not sure if it helps but I think my issue was caused by the NordVPN app. I've noticed that the issue only occurred when NordVPN was having issues reconnecting.
 

chudester

macrumors newbie
May 21, 2020
10
8
San Francisco, CA
Got one of my MacBook Pros back from Apple Repair and the top case was replaced. I logged into the account and issue was still there. So - it’s definitely software.

Not sure if it helps but I think my issue was caused by the NordVPN app. I've noticed that the issue only occurred when NordVPN was having issues reconnecting.
No VPN clients on any of our assets. Only similar item is JAMF Client for enterprise. Which is also how we distributed Catalina. But I doubt that will cause it. The saga continues.
 

Half Baked

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 13, 2020
7
2
I also don't use a VPN so I don't think that is the problem, at least for me.
 

Barth

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2020
5
0
Any update with this issue ?

I have the same problem with a MBP 15 and a MBP 16...
 

Half Baked

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 13, 2020
7
2
Any update with this issue ?

I have the same problem with a MBP 15 and a MBP 16...


Still having the problem after updating to 10.15.6. I've done three factory resets now; the latest one I reinstalled catalina and restored a backup from migration assistant. but no luck. If your laptop is still new, I'd recommend getting a replacement while it's still covered by warranty.
 

Barth

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2020
5
0
But it's a software problem for sure.

I had the problem with my 15", and I used a Time Machine from it to setup my brand new 16".

So a replacement will also have the problem if I install it with the same Time Machine.
 

Barth

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2020
5
0
Ok I think I actually found the issue (for my case at least).

From the messages I saw here and there, I was suspecting 2 things :

- Virtual Machines : I do use VMs but with Parallels Desktop, not VMware, but I thought maybe it could be the problem as many people were reporting that they are using VMware.

- VPN : I use different VPN services (Astrill, ExpressVPN, and WireGuard with my own VPS).

But I already tried to totally uninstall Parallels Desktop and I still had the problem.

Some hours ago I did many tests and I finally could reproduce the problem each time. :)

If I close the lid and I let WireGuard connected, I'll have the issue when I reopen the lid.

If I disconnect it before closing the lid, I won't have any issue, the trackpad and keyboard will be responsive directly after the screen turns on.

I'll do some more tests, but for now everything seems fine.
 

Aziz Khoury

macrumors newbie
Aug 29, 2020
1
0
Same issue here, MBP 16, Catalina 10.15.6, happens A LOT

* VPN clients (PIA & TunnelBlick) installed, but not running
* 1 VM installed win10 using VirtualHost, but not running
 

TDK123

macrumors newbie
Sep 13, 2020
1
0
I am having a similar problem on my MBP 13 since I upgraded to Catalina. I don't have any VPN or VM on my machine. I hope Apple is looking to fix this.
 

NanoG6

macrumors newbie
Jul 6, 2012
24
7
I also have this issue on 2020 13” MBP latest Catalina, running Fusion and Viscosity VPN (connect via proxy) at the office. May be I need to try reproduce without Fusion and VPN at home.
 

boqurant

macrumors newbie
Mar 24, 2020
4
5
Same issue here: 2020 MBP13 10.15.6. I encounter this issue on power or battery, and suspect the VPN might be involved but still get it sometimes when off VPN. Wish there was a solution!
 

NanoG6

macrumors newbie
Jul 6, 2012
24
7
Seems like VPN issue, because it happened while I was connected through Viscosity OpenVPN client, no VM/fusion running.
 

Ktwz

macrumors newbie
Oct 9, 2020
1
0
I have the same issue but on Mojave 10.14.6. Using MacBook air 2019, so I hope it's not a hardware issue. I do have a VPN installed. At first it was Vypr but now I'm using Astrill. I'll have to do some tests to see if I encounter the problem more when I'm using the VPN.
 

rsalmei

macrumors newbie
Oct 19, 2020
1
0
I just had it for the first time, MacBook 16 i9. I don’t use any VPN, but curiously my isp had failed, so the macOS despite being connected to my router, could not access the Internet when I opened the lid...
 

LemonKing

macrumors newbie
Oct 22, 2020
4
1
I encounter with this issue every single day on my 2019 13 inch MBP since updating to Catalina last year. Never had the issue when it was still running on Mojave. Definitely a software problem. Hope it gets fixed when Big Sur comes out.
 

jflavio11

macrumors newbie
Oct 22, 2020
1
0
Same issue here. I got a MacBook Pro 13" 2020 and I'm having this issue like 2 months ago. I solve it by closing the Macbook and opening it again. I will wait to Big Sur, hope it gets fixed
 

AamodJ

macrumors newbie
Feb 18, 2019
5
0
I have this issue whenever I keep my mac on charge while the lid is closed. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens at least once every 2 or 3 days. I put my mac on charge with closed lid, and then after a while when I open the lid, keyboard and mouse are unresponsive and the Bluetooth Setup Assistant pop up saying "There isn't a wireless mouse or trackpad connected". Surprisingly, when I yank the power chord out, my keyboard and mouse immediately start working. I don't have any VM, but I do have a VPN but I very rarely use it, and this issue happens regardless of it being on or off. I haven't tried replicating this problem with my bluetooth on, so can't say if that's the one causing the problem. But in my case at least, if my mac is on power, it happens.
 

dhausen

macrumors newbie
Oct 31, 2020
1
0
I don't have VPN or WireGuard or anything non-standard, 2020 MacBook Air, have the same problem: pointer frozen on screen for up to 30 seconds while everything else seems to work. Appears to be more of a problem when computer has been sleeping for longer periods. Fairly minor problem but still irritating when one is in a hurry ...
 

cariacou

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2010
507
428
I have the same exact issue with my 2019 16".

Found these threads with other users mentioning this issue as well. If this is so common, despite 1year of software updates, is this a hardware issue?





 
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