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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
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Aug 31, 2011
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The other day I had another 23" Cinema Display fail on me. My Mac Pro still sees it and is still sending signal to it, but the display power light is off and it is not displaying image. The power supply for that display is cold. I swapped power supplies to test and no change.

This is the second 23" I've had fail on me, but I've not (yet) had my 30" Cinema Displays or any 20" Cinema Display fail on me. So, I'm wondering if the 23" displays are more prone to failure and if so why.

I plan to replace the display, just have no idea with what yet. A Goodwill trip is in the cards so I might mix things up a bit. We'll see what happens. I'm just wondering if these 23" displays were more faulty than the others.

Any comments?

PS. I posted this here instead of in the PowerPC section because the displays are connected to my Mac Pro.
 
The other day I had another 23" Cinema Display fail on me. My Mac Pro still sees it and is still sending signal to it, but the display power light is off and it is not displaying image. The power supply for that display is cold. I swapped power supplies to test and no change.

This is the second 23" I've had fail on me, but I've not (yet) had my 30" Cinema Displays or any 20" Cinema Display fail on me. So, I'm wondering if the 23" displays are more prone to failure and if so why.

I plan to replace the display, just have no idea with what yet. A Goodwill trip is in the cards so I might mix things up a bit. We'll see what happens. I'm just wondering if these 23" displays were more faulty than the others.

Any comments?

PS. I posted this here instead of in the PowerPC section because the displays are connected to my Mac Pro.

Prefacing how I don’t have hands-on experience with this gen of Cinema Displays, I’ll go on a lark and observe when the 23 and 30-inch models went on sale being coincident with when the ALS iMac G5s were also on sale. Although the two were most likely assembled in different plants, possibly even in different nations, they were assembled when that batch of bad capacitors was circulating worldwide and ending up in all sorts of products.

It’s probably a long shot, but it may be worth a go at opening one of these two 23-inch displays to fail on you, to have a look at the main board for signs of leaking or exploded capacitors. That your system sees the displays are detected suggests the data from the displays are still getting power to self-check and announce what they are to anything connected to them. This may be on a separate board, or not, idk (I’m being lazy and should check whether iFixit has a guide on this). But the main power draw — to the LCD, backlight, and processing the digital signal for display — isn’t getting to the LCD, backlight, and processing. This seems to point at the main board needing, at minimum, a close, visual inspection.

Knowing your past history with opening PowerBook displays, I can fully appreciate your hesitance at doing so with the ACD. But the upside is an inspection, with pictures, could be good for… science. 🧑‍🔬

That is: post what you find inside there, in the event someone after you (i.e., someone who’s used their ACD far less than you, as a 24/7 power user, have) finds themselves here asking similar questions down the way about why their display failed. And having a look inside, if nothing else, would quickly dispel or support the capacitor hypothesis I mentioned above.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Aug 31, 2011
28,832
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Prefacing how I don’t have hands-on experience with this gen of Cinema Displays, I’ll go on a lark and observe when the 23 and 30-inch models went on sale being coincident with when the ALS iMac G5s were also on sale. Although the two were most likely assembled in different plants, possibly even in different nations, they were assembled when that batch of bad capacitors was circulating worldwide and ending up in all sorts of products.

Which is to say: probably a long shot, but it might be worth a go at opening one of these two 23-inch displays to fail on you, to have a look at the main board for signs of leaking or exploded capacitors. That your system sees the displays are detected suggests the data from the displays are still getting power to self-check and announce what they are to anything connected to them. This may be on a separate board, or not, idk. But the main power draw — to the LCD and backlight — isn’t getting to the LCD and backlight, which seems to point at the main board needing an inspection.

Knowing your past history with opening PowerBook displays, I can fully appreciate your hesitance at doing so with the ACD. But upside is an inspection, with pictures, could be good for… science.

That is: post what you find inside there, in the event someone after you (someone who used their ACD far less than you, as a 24/7 power user, have) finds themselves here asking similar questions about why their display failed. And having a look inside, if nothing else, would quickly dispel or support the hypothesis I mentioned above.
This one will go out in the garage with the other one (they both 'failed' in the same way) and I intend to open them at some point. eBay always has Cinema Display parts for sale so maybe at some point…we'll see.

I'm taking it as an opportunity to find a larger display, so hopefully my Goodwill trip will bear fruit. If not I'll see where else this goes. It does however, force me to get up and move displays around like I've been intending to for a while now. Looking over at a blank display aggravates me, LOL.

I would suspect you're right though. The 30" displays seem pretty reliable and I know the 20" displays are pretty dang tough (there was a 20" display at my old job that was purchased new in 2005 and still working in 2018 when I left).
 
This one will go out in the garage with the other one (they both 'failed' in the same way) and I intend to open them at some point. eBay always has Cinema Display parts for sale so maybe at some point…we'll see.

I’ll look forward to it! :)

I'm taking it as an opportunity to find a larger display, so hopefully my Goodwill trip will bear fruit. If not I'll see where else this goes. It does however, force me to get up and move displays around like I've been intending to for a while now. Looking over at a blank display aggravates me, LOL.

I really wish Goodwill in this part of Canada hadn’t been mishandled and forced into receivership last decade. There were two locations near me and I used to stop by both regularly. We lost a lot with that, leaving us only with Sally Ann (me: not a fan of the Salvation Army) and, well, Value Village/Savers locally as our main thrifting fallbacks for old gear (and Value Village, of late, is also in the hot seat). Fortunately, other divisions of Goodwill in Canada were unaffected, so this is moot for folks who live in those regions (which, frankly, is most of Canada, geographically speaking, anyhow).


I would suspect you're right though. The 30" displays seem pretty reliable and I know the 20" displays are pretty dang tough (there was a 20" display at my old job that was purchased new in 2005 and still working in 2018 when I left).

Yah, my experience with ACDs is mostly confined to the acrylic-era models. My display (picked up for free ten years ago this month along with my A1047), is still working just fine. Counterpoint: it is often in sleep mode, waking only when I need to do something on the G5 (which still does file server duty in my home).
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
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Aug 31, 2011
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I really wish Goodwill in this part of Canada hadn’t been mishandled and forced into receivership last decade. There were two locations near me and I used to stop by both regularly. We lost a lot with that, leaving us only with Sally Ann (me: not a fan of the Salvation Army) and, well, Value Village/Savers locally as our main thrifting fall-backs for old gear. Fortunately, other divisions of Goodwill in Canada were unaffected, so this is moot for folks who live in those regions (which, frankly, is most of Canada, geographically speaking, anyhow).
There was a change with the Goodwill in the US at some point as well. You can find monitors, keyboards, mice, cables, etc there now but no actual computers. They started funnelling those to shopgoodwill.com I think. As an aside, right now shopgoodwill.com has four 23" Cinema Displays on offer for about $30 each (not including shipping). But shopgoodwill.com is an auction site so you have to wait for the auction to end.

It's almost like the Goodwill employees started waking up to the value of the items being donated. Combine this with middle class people all of a sudden starting to realize that Goodwill existed and that it had decent items for a decent price and suddenly it became hard to find stuff there. My wife has real silver platters and serving trays that she got for pennies during the time period before Goodwill started identifying quality items. And I once walked out with an HP postscript laser printer for about $10. Not now. :D

There used to be a Salvation Army store we visited, but it closed a long time ago. The only other one I know of was in Scottsdale and we dropped in back in 2003. No idea if it's still there. I did get a PowerMac 6500 from that store though for $65 and it was a great Mac. @bunnspecial has that Mac now.

But yeah, SA tends to be way more expensive.
 
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There was a change with the Goodwill in the US at some point as well. You can find monitors, keyboards, mice, cables, etc there now but no actual computers. They started funnelling those to shopgoodwill.com I think. As an aside, right now shopgoodwill.com has four 23" Cinema Displays on offer for about $30 each (not including shipping). But shopgoodwill.com is an auction site so you have to wait for the auction to end.

Curious how they didn’t run with “bidgoodwill.com” instead. :D

It's almost like the Goodwill employees started waking up to the value of the items being donated. Combine this with middle class people all of a sudden starting to realize that Goodwill existed and that it had decent items for a decent price and suddenly it became hard to find stuff there. My wife has real silver platters and serving trays that she got for pennies during the time period before Goodwill started identifying quality items. And I once walked out with an HP postscript laser printer for about $10. Not now. :D

The organization, even as a not-for-profit, still has to focus on bringing in enough revenue to cover not only the basics, like higher rents for their store locations (which, indeed, have gone way up, even for them) and the paying of staff, but also their core mandate of new skills training for people and also other areas of community outreach.

Couple that with a post-NAFTA-era acceleration of consuming “durable goods” products with ever-faster turnover, quietly fostering a culture shift from people being recognized not for what they do in life, but for what they consume (and how they convey that consumption). What happens is a glut in obsolete(d) durable goods shows up in secondhand stores, en masse, by folks who were at least thoughtful and wise enough not to throw them, reckless, into their rubbish bin for weekly pick-up.

And for a nation-state the (population and consumption-per-capita) size of the U.S., that’s a lot of material to end up in thrifting/yard sale/marketplace outlets. (Real talk: I do sort of envy the sheer quantity of stuff one can procure fairly easily via thrifting in the U.S.) Goodwill there at least had the foresight to set up an online bidding site for their higher-demand durable goods products. Hopefully that revenue is helping improve their community-based programmes.

There used to be a Salvation Army store we visited, but it closed a long time ago. The only other one I know of was in Scottsdale and we dropped in back in 2003. No idea if it's still there. I did get a PowerMac 6500 from that store though for $65 and it was a great Mac. @bunnspecial has that Mac now.

Given its very long, steady track record on condemning — and equivocations around — an entire portion of the general population under dubious auspices, this is why Sally Ann is typically, always, a big non-starter for me. I’m trying not to veer too headlong into off-topic grounds here, but more just laying out why thrifting here has gotten tougher with the bankruptcy shutdown of our regional Goodwill division.

That said, I have managed to find a couple of interesting Mac items for cheap at Value Village (like a ratty 12-inch iBook G4 whose display was harvested for my clamshell iBook XGA mod), but most of those I’ve seen were found immediately following the months-long closure of shops during pandemic lock-down.

For example, on the first day they re-opened, I visited a location to find a B&W G3 (probably Rev A or B, based on the specs), three 13-inch unibody Macs (one was a MB, the others were MBPs, but early ones from 2009–10), and three different A1047s — none of which was a step up from the mid-2004 DP2.0 I own (one did, however, have the Radeon 9600 card, which was one feature in its favour). Since then, there have been only periodic appearances of Macs, and those tend to get snapped up quickly.

This is Canada though: there are, quantitatively, fewer of these items in existence or in circulation here, as Apple’s reach here used to lag the U.S. by several years.

But yeah, SA tends to be way more expensive.

Huh. I did not know this!
 

eyoungren

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Aug 31, 2011
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Well…time to put on my thinking cap as to how I'm going to work this.

Goodwill, 43" LG HDTV, which is UHD (3840x2160). That makes this TV the same resolution as the 55" HDTV hanging on my wall. On top of that, it's a smart TV so it has an ethernet port. Not sure how I'm going to leverage that as I'm already using an Amazon Firestick in my 55".

2024-02-10 18.44.07.jpg

Anyway, cost me $20. The image has it with a blue cast, but I'm fairly sure that can be cleaned up. It looks worse in the picture than in real life. I also ordered a remote off of Amazon for $10 as there seems to be no physical controls other than a power button. Will be here tomorrow.

The new HDTV has no stand (it was wall mounted) so will have to work around that as well (but not a big deal I think). My problem is arrangement.

Still, better to have this problem.

PS. I think I'm done with 23" Cinema Displays, but don't quote me on that. :D

PPS. New HDTV is model 43UH6100.
 

TheShortTimer

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Mar 27, 2017
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View attachment 2348174

Anyway, cost me $20. The image has it with a blue cast, but I'm fairly sure that can be cleaned up. It looks worse in the picture than in real life. I also ordered a remote off of Amazon for $10 as there seems to be no physical controls other than a power button. Will be here tomorrow.

Congrats on the bargain! The blue cast might be due to the picture settings requiring adjustment with a remote. Fingers crossed. :)
 
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eyoungren

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Congrats on the bargain! The blue cast might be due to the picture settings requiring adjustment with a remote. Fingers crossed. :)
Yeah, not too worried about it. I think it will be a primary display for the MacPro, but seeing as the two 30" Cinemas are shared between my MP and my work MBP I have to figure out an arrangement that accounts for those displays still being primary for the MBP.

First world problems. :)
 

broly

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Apr 1, 2020
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i have a 27" led cinema display--purchased at launch in 2010. still going no problem (panel flaws and all).

haha still have my 20" in my basement. jeez it's gonna be 20 years old this year :/
 
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Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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Yeah, not too worried about it. I think it will be a primary display for the MacPro […]
What GPU(s) does the Tower of Power have?

I’m asking because you (probably ;)) want 60 Hz refresh if this is going to be a main display, and it only has (three) HDMI 2.0 inputs. So your GPU needs to have a HDMI 2.0 output or you‘ll be stuck with a pretty much unusable 30 Hz refresh rate, with a laggy mouse pointer and all.

If your GPU doesn’t have HDMI 2.0 but has DisplayPort 1.2, you need an active DisplayPort 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 converter, such as this one, to feed 4K60 into the TV. (Not a passive adapter!)

In this case, you may also have to use a custom CVT-RB timing if your GPU‘s pixel clock limit is less than the 594 MHz required for 4K60 using HDMI timings.
 
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eyoungren

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Aug 31, 2011
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What GPU(s) does the Tower of Power have?

I’m asking because you (probably ;)) want 60 Hz refresh if this is going to be a main display, and it only has (three) HDMI 2.0 inputs. So your GPU needs to have a HDMI 2.0 output or you‘ll be stuck with a pretty much unusable 30 Hz refresh rate, with a laggy mouse pointer and all.

If your GPU doesn’t have HDMI 2.0 but has DisplayPort 1.2, you need an active DisplayPort 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 converter, such as this one, to feed 4K60 into the TV. (Not a passive adapter!)

In this case, you may also have to use a custom CVT-RB timing if your GPU‘s pixel clock limit is less than the 594 MHz required for 4K60 using HDMI timings.
Well, it's two of these: Nvidia GeForce GT 640

s-l500.jpg

Right now I have one 30" Cinema Display attached to each card. So, one card has a 30" Cinema Display and the 55" HDTV and a 23" Cinema Display. The other card has a 30" Cinema Display, a 23" Cinema Display and a 20" Cinema Display. The 23" on that second card is hooked up via HDMI.

So, I'd just be swapping in the 43" TV for the 23" Cinema Display which would be using the same HDMI port. And both cards would have a 30" Cinema Display and HDTV to run, not just the one card as it is right now. Plus the other 23" and 20" Cinema Displays.

The currently supported 55" HDTV gives me no problems. It is at a 30mhz refresh rate, but it works. I mean, I put a browser window up there with YT videos (full size) all the time.

2024-02-11 08.11.04.jpg 2024-02-11 08.11.43.jpg

Note, you can see the dark 23" on the side there. It's supposed to be on.

PS. The 24" displays on the far left and the floor are using a DisplayLink device so they don't count in all this.
 
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Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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So, I'd just be swapping in the 43" TV for the 23" Cinema Display which would be using the same HDMI port.
That means 30 Hz refresh rate.

The currently supported 55" HDTV gives me no problems. It is at a 30mhz refresh rate, but it works. I mean, I put a browser window up there with YT videos (full size) all the time.
Yeah, but this is not the same as using it for a main or even secondary display. Try dragging windows around or doing precise actions with the mouse in e.g. InDesign or Photoshop and see if 30 Hz refresh bothers you.

Ideally, you would hook up six displays like this to get 60 Hz on all of them:

GPU 1:
DisplayPort: 43“ HDTV (with active adapter)
Dual-link DVI: 30“ ACD
HDMI: 23“ ACD (with passive adapter)

GPU 2:
DisplayPort: 55“ HDTV (with active adapter)
Dual-link DVI: 30“ ACD
HDMI: 20“ ACD (with passive adapter)

I’m not trying to rain on your parade, but I went through the same thing: when I got my first 4K display in 2015, I had no system that could run it at 60 Hz so I just ran it at 30 Hz. Initially thinking that it’d be fine and I‘d get used to it, the laggy mouse cursor and lag when dragging windows around or when animations were playing in the OS eventually annoyed me to the point that I didn’t want to use the display anymore.
 

eyoungren

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Aug 31, 2011
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That means 30 Hz refresh rate.


Yeah, but this is not the same as using it for a main or even secondary display. Try dragging windows around or doing precise actions with the mouse in e.g. InDesign or Photoshop and see if 30 Hz refresh bothers you.

Ideally, you would hook up six displays like this to get 60 Hz on all of them:

GPU 1:
DisplayPort: 43“ HDTV (with active adapter)
Dual-link DVI: 30“ ACD
HDMI: 23“ ACD (with passive adapter)

GPU 2:
DisplayPort: 55“ HDTV (with active adapter)
Dual-link DVI: 30“ ACD
HDMI: 20“ ACD (with passive adapter)

I’m not trying to rain on your parade, but I went through the same thing: when I got my first 4K display in 2015, I had no system that could run it at 60 Hz so I just ran it at 30 Hz. Initially thinking that it’d be fine and I‘d get used to it, the laggy mouse cursor and lag when dragging windows around or when animations were playing in the OS eventually annoyed me to the point that I didn’t want to use the display anymore.
I will just say that at some point during COVID and work from home there was a point where I needed to get work done. This was before you and I had figured out the Apple adapters for my two 30" Cinemas in relation to the 2015 MBP. So, I was using the HDTV on the 2015 MBP as a primary display. That was QuarkXPress, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.

Now, quite possibly the MBP was running at 60mhz, I can't recall. But I didn't have any problems with the apps. The only issue I had was craning my neck up all the time. :D

You're trying to improve the situation for me and my thanks for that. We'll see how it all goes. Right now, my issue is that I do NOT want to use this new HDTV as a primary display for the 2023 MBP that work issued me. So, the two 30" Cinemas will still be connected to that via my KVM switch.

So what that means is that physically I can't alter the location of the two 30" CDs and if I can't do that, I can't put the new HDTV front and center (which would have it as a main display). So, it may end up being a hybrid type of thing. And 30mhz may just work because my own demand for design work is not intense. That aside, if I run into problems then adapters are probably in my future - or making the display another secondary.

I guess it's just going to come down to how much any particular thing bothers me.
 
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Amethyst1

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Now, quite possibly the MBP was running at 60mhz, I can't recall.
The 2015 MBP doesn’t have HDMI 2.0, so it was 30 Hz. But if it worked fine for your needs, that’s what matters.

You're trying to improve the situation for me and my thanks for that.
That’s one way of seeing things — another is I blurted out ‘advice’ noone asked for :D
 

eyoungren

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Aug 31, 2011
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The 2015 MBP doesn’t have HDMI 2.0, so it was 30 Hz. But if it worked fine for your needs, that’s what matters.
Yeah, we're going to have to see. The adapters seem to be cheap enough that I can easily do this but it means rearranging my other adapters. Musical monitors instead of musical chairs though - ugh.


That’s one way of seeing things — another is I blurted out ‘advice’ noone asked for :D
That is how I choose to see it (you helping) ;)
 

TheShortTimer

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Mar 27, 2017
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That is how I choose to see it (you helping) ;)

I'd wager that most of us share your viewpoint. :)

When MR turns into Reddit. :D

I have an account on there and I've posted a few times in various groups but its popularity remains a mystery to me. I much prefer this format.

Wait, wait wait. I'm the one around here that has the market cornered on blurting out advice (or opinions) nobody asked for. Everyone else is just helping! :D

tenor.gif
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
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Aug 31, 2011
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If your GPU doesn’t have HDMI 2.0 but has DisplayPort 1.2, you need an active DisplayPort 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 converter, such as this one, to feed 4K60 into the TV. (Not a passive adapter!)
I went and bought two adapters off Amazon for $25. Seller says 4K, Active, 60mhz. I'm going to end up disconnecting everything to rearrange stuff anyway so might as well.

 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
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Aug 31, 2011
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So, remote showed up and I've reset the TV. I guess the blue cast is the reason the TV ended up at the Goodwill. That's okay. It'll serve fine as a much larger secondary display. And I have Blacklight which can apply a tint to the screen that hopefully will even out the blue. I use Blacklight to get rid of the yellow tint on one of my Cinema Displays so it works.

The TV has WiFi (connected now) and Ethernet so that's interesting. May be able to use it without a Firestick although why I need to run two TVs at once for TV programming I don't know right now.

Will see how long it takes me to break down and move stuff.
 

eyoungren

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Aug 31, 2011
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…but I can try to walk you through that.
If we get to that point it will require a lot of hand holding. SwitchRes and I do not have a cooperative history and any time I install it, it becomes a royal pain in the butt to get rid of it. I try to avoid installing it on my primary Macs if I can.
 
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