Considering Windows laptops during Arm transition

[0128672]

First off, sorry for the long post.

Although my 2018 iPad Pro 12.9/64 + MK is my main device these days, I've been considering a laptop for iPad/iPhone backups/restores, expanded photo and video storage to supplement iCloud and external drives, and as a backup machine for the iPad in case the iPad has an issue/needs repair. And games, I want Windows games.

I waited for the 2020 MPB 13" to arrive in the refurb store and then had difficulty reconciling not feeling comfortable buying a Mac during this Arm transition. I started thinking why not return to Windows? What's available for budget laptops? I'm equally comfortable in both OSes and already have an M365 sub.

I'm definitely a Lenovo fan so not going to touch a Dell, HP or Acer. My budget is under $1000, and having not looked for a bit, I'm amazed what's available in this category.

I haven't owned a Windows laptop for a while and forgot about all the available ports. Being a spec-hound makes it very hard to ignore all the great gaming laptops out there. The temptations are great for a little budget stretch. Four-zone RGB backlit keyboard? Ooooooh.

If anyone has tried/kept/returned the machines I'm considering, I'd love to hear more.

Being able to return a machine in-store locally is important. I don't like to do mail-in returns; I don't mind ordering online, although I'm terribly impatient with the wait. In my area in-store means Best Buy, and (cringing) Staples and Walmart if there's a great deal. The only exception is Lenovo.com, but its site is quite overwhelming even with filters. Last evening while researching several models went out of stock as part of the pre-Labor Day sale. Who can resist a 65% discount?

Features I want

• SSD only 256 minimum
• 10th gen i5 or i7; Ryzen 7 4th gen 4800HS or 5 4600U
• 15" display preferred although 14" is ok; going for larger than the iPP 12.9, and 13.3" isn't enough of a difference
• 1920 x 1080 FHD; I always scale to this anyway
• matte or anti-glare display; I detest glossy screens
• 250 nits is good for my eyes; I always dim the display anyway
• Comfortable keyboard; not especially picky about these
• Good enough graphics; only minimal photo/video editing for personal use.

Features I don't want or need

• 2-in-1, flex or touchscreen (so the Lenovo Yogas are out, and BB has a lot of them)
• mic or camera (but the Lenovo shutter closing mechanism is a nice feature)
• 4-1-in media slot
• long battery life not a priority since I would use it at home
• all aluminium case; some plastic is fine

I have a Dell U2718Q 4K IPS display as well so USB-c to DP or HMDI ports are important.

Machines I'm considering

Lenovo Ideapad 5 15.6" 10th gen i7/16/512 $649 Staples. This is being delivered tomorrow. I tried an Ideapad 5 14" i5/8/256 for $549 (from Walmart!), and liked it so wanted to see what $100 more would feel like. Good specs including DDR4 3200, great ports including USB-C 3.2. The display is 1920 x 1080 TN. I liked the screen on the first Ideapad I tried so this one should be fine too.

I use the Lenovo PSREF spec site because vendors can get them so wrong.

Lenovo Legion 5 15.6" Y600 series from BB $1100 (and an open box for $989). It's DDR4 2933, 10th gen i7, 8/512; RAM upgradeable to 16. Even has Ethernet which might come in handy using my 1st gen Airport Time Capsule for backups. More than I want to spend though but in-store at BB.

The only 4th gen Ryzen 7 4800HS BB has in my price range is the Asus ROG Zephyrus 14 8/512 FHD @$1100. Good ports and DDR4 3200. More than I want to spend but could be fun.

I'm not dead set against a Thinkpad but don't need a business/workhorse/desktop replacement laptop like a P53. Surprised how much of the RAM is soldered. Nice that some on sale come with the 3-year onsite warranty. A bit overwhelmed by all the models. Most of what BB carries are in the $1200-2000 range, higher than I want to spend.

I normally wouldn't consider Asus, but the Vivobook S15 keeps popping up on best of lists and BB has some good offerings. There was a 2nd gen Ryzen 7/12/512 for $599 that sold out last night.

There's a 2nd gen Ryzen 5/8/512 for $599 still available. The S15 S532 i7/16/1TB for $999 at BB has this odd Screenpad functionality; not sure I'd be comfortable with it. BB doesn't always get the ports listings correct, so going to Asus.com helps.

So, this is where I am today. Other suggestions are welcome. I'll post more about the Ideapad 5 once it arrives. It might be just the thing.

 

[glenthompson]

I was in a similar situation and planning to buy either a 13" Air or MBP to replace my 2011 MBP 15". I didn't want to get the last Intel Mac or the first ARM Mac. Got a decent deal on a used 13" Air from Craigslist. This will tide me over nicely for a couple of years until the ARM transition is settled. I did have less stringent requirements than you. Can't see going to a Windows laptop now, gave them up when I retired and haven't looked back.

 

[0128672]

I was in a similar situation and planning to buy either a 13" Air or MBP to replace my 2011 MBP 15". I didn't want to get the last Intel Mac or the first ARM Mac. Got a decent deal on a used 13" Air from Craigslist. This will tide me over nicely for a couple of years until the ARM transition is settled. I did have less stringent requirements than you. Can't see going to a Windows laptop now, gave them up when I retired and haven't looked back.

"... last Intel Mac or the first ARM Mac" -- yup, exactly. An MBA is a good way to go too, and certainly even the refurbs are affordable starting at $850. I tried a 2020 MBA and it gave me eye strain right away; I'm not sure why because my eyes are fine with the iPad. It will be an interesting couple of years to watch what happens.

 

[0128672]

I realize it sounds like I'm torn between budget laptops and the lower-end gaming laptops. It's true. It's hard not to have some spec lust, but ultimately the budget will speak loudest.

 

[ctjack]

• matte or anti-glare display; I detest glossy screens

Wow, how do you live with a Macbooks screen?

I tried a 2020 MBA and it gave me eye strain right away; I'm not sure why because my eyes are fine with the iPad.

I also have a 2012 MBP 13. This Retina gives me an eye strain easily. It is so uncomfortable in terms of working, but only really enjoyable when watching movies/videos. I kinda feel that harm to my eyes while working on docs, web sites.

But i had a dell xps 15z, which had glossy and dim screen, but i used it for 9 years with no problem whatsoever. I have spent 9 years starring at it for 8-10 hours a day and my eyesight wasn't moving and i was wearing the same glasses. But i think this is not achievable with Retina screens.

I also have no eye strain while watching iphone se, 6, 8 plus or an iPad for all day.
Something is wrong with Macbook's screen or with me.

I normally wouldn't consider Asus, but the Vivobook S15 keeps popping up on best of lists

It is quite popular. Because it is much of quality for less money. The only problem is that screen is on the dimmer side.

Lenovo Ideapad 5 15.6" 10th gen i7/16/512 $649 Staples.

This one has no dGPU, so playing windows games is very casual.

Asus ROG Zephyrus 14

In the times of unknown future with ARM and Intel abandonment - i am heavily leaning towards this one. It has everything in it.

 

[0128672]

Asus ROG Zephyrus 14

In the times of unknown future with ARM and Intel abandonment - i am heavily leaning towards this one. It has everything in it.

Thanks for your comments. Actually I cancelled the Lenovo Ideapad order yesterday via return shipment request. Support wasn't sure it would go through, but tonight apparently it did. So now I'm leaning more toward this ROG Zephyrus too or a Vivobook S15. BB has the Zephyrus available for pickup so it feels like an easy, solid choice.

 

[ctjack]

BB has the Zephyrus available for pickup so it feels like an easy, solid choice.

I will just leave it here. I am already saving my money for this. Sure thing it needs some tweaking in the system but nothing hard (it is not that hard as a shim for Air).

 

[maflynn]

Although my 2018 iPad Pro 12.9/64 + MK

What does Apple's transition to ARM has you bothered enough that you're wanting a windows machine and what is not meeting your needs with your 2018 MBP?

 

[1221320]

Interesting thread. I went for a Lenovo X1 Carbon gen 7 last year, as I wanted to replace my aging 13" Macbook Pro with a machine with a best-in-class keyboard.

After a year of use, I'm considering switching back to a 16" MBP for my next laptop. The Lenovo keyboard is great, but I realised a 16:10 screen is better for a laptop than a 16:9, and actually a metal case laptop is ideal for me as someone who is a little obsessed with keeping gadgets clean! My 2012 MBP looks brand new, while my X1C got so dirty after less than a year I went and covered the whole thing with a dbrand skin so I wouldn't have to worry about fingerprints, grease, and other handling marks.

The Zephryus G14 does look pretty good - and has a metal body. But the 16:9 screen is a bummer, and after using a 4K laptop screen on my X1C, I'm not sure I can go back to any lower res - despite the fact that the battery life on this X1C is utterly utterly diabolical (like, 2 hours).

Then again, I've never seen a 120Hz 1080p screen in action, so maybe I'll be convinced, if the battery life is so good.

 

[0128672]

What does Apple's transition to ARM has you bothered enough that you're wanting a windows machine and what is not meeting your needs with your 2018 MBP?

I don't have an MBP, I have an iPad Pro. I had mentioned some reasons in my OP why I decided to geta laptop, basically to do all the things the iPP can't do.

 

[maflynn]

I don't have an MBP, I have an iPad Pro. I had mention some reasons in my OP why I decided to geta laptop, basically to do all the things the iPP can't do.

D'oh, I totally misread your post, my apologies.

 

[0128672]

I decided to just go ahead and get the Asus 4th gen Ryzen 7 Zephyrus 14 this morning, and now have it at home and doing updates and setup stuff. Out of the box it's gorgeous and feels silky smooth to type on it, trackpad feels good, my eyes like the screen, and it's fast. With the specs in mind, in the Best Buy store I compared the same priced i7 Legion with the Zephyrus, and the Zephyrus won. I knew the Legion was a couple pounds heavier (and it's a 15.6" screen after all), but lifting it confirmed that the Zephyrus 14" was a better choice.

Anyway ... it'll be a fun afternoon with the new rig! I'm pretty sure it will be a keeper.

 

[1221320]

I decided to just go ahead and get the Asus Zephyrus 14 this morning, and now have it at home and doing updates and setup stuff. Out of the box it's gorgeous and feels silky smooth to type on it. With the specs in mind, in the Best Buy store I compared the same priced i7 Legion with the Ryzen 7 Zephyrus, and the Zephyrus won. I knew the Legion was a couple pounds heavier (and it's a 15.6" screen after all), but lifting it confirmed that the Zephyrus 14" was a better choice.

Anyway ... it'll be a fun afternoon with the new rig! I'm pretty sure it will be a keeper.

Congrats on your purchase! Could you share some photos? I'm very keen to hear about your experience. Which model did you get?

 

[0128672]

Congrats on your purchase! Could you share some photos? I'm very keen to hear about your experience. Which model did you get?

I got the G14 Ryzen 7 (4th gen) 4800H/8/512 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650. There was a Ryzen 9/16/1TB model but it was $350 more and it's much more of a machine than I need. I can always upgrade the RAM on this one if needed. I'm not sure any photos I could add would be much different than what's shown on the BB site, but if there's anything specific you'd like to see, let me know.

One thing I didn't need was a camera, which this doesn't have, although oddly it has a mic. I've got my iPad Pro for that.

 

[1221320]

I got the G14 Ryzen 7 (4th gen) 4800H/8/512 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650. There was a Ryzen 9/16/1TB model but it was $350 more and it's much more of a machine than I need. I can always upgrade the RAM on this one if needed. I'm not sure any photos I could add would be much different than what's shown on the BB site, but if there's anything specific you'd like to see, let me know.

One thing I didn't need was a camera, which this doesn't have, although oddly it has a mic. I've got my iPad Pro for that.

Is it the white or black model? How do you find the finish of the body? Fingerprint magnet, or easy to clean? And how's the screen? As I mentioned I'm kinda stuck on the 4K of my laptop, but if full 1080p gets you a tonne of battery life.

How's the keyboard to type on?

 

[0128672]

Is it the white or black model? How do you find the finish of the body? Fingerprint magnet, or easy to clean? And how's the screen? As I mentioned I'm kinda stuck on the 4K of my laptop, but if full 1080p gets you a tonne of battery life.

How's the keyboard to type on?

- It's eclipse gray. Guess that's the equivalent of space gray. I like it! The Ryzen 9 in the store was the Moonlight White and it looked good. I like a darker color (although still miss the glossy white iBooks).
- The finish on the bottom keyboard side is rubberized, so it's soft. So far it's not picking up any smudges or fingerprints in the first couple of hours, and I'm comparing that to the first 30 minutes with the Magic Keyboard, which did easily. Feels like it will be easy to clean. The keys have a bit more texture. The top/screen piece is metal (aluminum I assume), and the bottom is plastic.
- No eye strain with the screen and I've got it dimmed to 50%. I haven't added games yet (and I'm new to Microsoft gaming) so haven't put it through its paces. As I mentioned, my eyes are happy with 1920 x 1080. Text in Word and Firefox is good. I haven't calibrated colors yet, and haven't tested it yet with my U2718Q.
- It was an instant like, which I don't usually feel with a new machine. I feel very confident in this machine so far.

added later: the speaker sound pretty good, and I like the 4 fan speed settings. I don't know if that's common with gaming laptops, but it's a nice feature. I followed the Reddit recommendations about tweaking settings for better battery life earlier, so we'll see if that makes a difference. It's fine as it is, but I'm always up for learning new tricks especially because the Asus apps are new.

Also the 14" size feels just the right amount larger than the 12.9 iPad Pro, which is what I wanted. The weight of this model is good for me and one hand lifting is easy. No eye strain after several hours playing with it (yes, yes, I promise, I took breaks too).

 

[1221320]

- It's eclipse gray. Guess that's the equivalent of space gray. I like it! The Ryzen 9 in the store was the Moonlight White and it looked good. I like a darker color (although still miss the glossy white iBooks).
- The finish on the bottom keyboard side is rubberized, so it's soft. So far it's not picking up any smudges or fingerprints in the first couple of hours, and I'm comparing that to the first 30 minutes with the Magic Keyboard, which did easily. Feels like it will be easy to clean. The keys have a bit more texture. The top/screen piece is metal (aluminum I assume), and the bottom is plastic.
- No eye strain with the screen and I've got it dimmed to 50%. I haven't added games yet (and I'm new to Microsoft gaming) so haven't put it through its paces. As I mentioned, my eyes are happy with 1920 x 1080. Text in Word and Firefox is good. I haven't calibrated colors yet, and haven't tested it yet with my U2718Q.
- It was an instant like, which I don't usually feel with a new machine. I feel very confident in this machine so far.

added later: the speaker sound pretty good, and I like the 4 fan speed settings. I don't know if that's common with gaming laptops, but it's a nice feature. I followed the Reddit recommendations about tweaking settings for better battery life earlier, so we'll see if that makes a difference. It's fine as it is, but I'm always up for learning new tricks especially because the Asus apps are new.

Also the 14" size feels just the right amount larger than the 12.9 iPad Pro, which is what I wanted. The weight of this model is good for me and one hand lifting is easy. No eye strain after several hours playing with it (yes, yes, I promise, I took breaks too).

Sounds really good. Congrats on your purchase!

 

[pshufd]

Could you use a desktop? You could probably pick most any Core i7 desktop from the past decade to do what you want and you could probably pick one up on the cheap or even for free. I just gave away one of my 435mt desktops (i7-920, 240 GB SSD, 24 GB RAM) to a security guard at my old employer and he was pretty happy with it. I have another with 48 GB of RAM - I will probably give it away if I do a new build.

People have been throwing these things out for a while - typically consumers buy an HP or Dell desktop, use it until it gets riddled with malware, complain that it's too slow and buy a new computer. A neighbor was going to do that but he asked my son to look at his PC and my son cleaned it up and he kept using it.

You really don't need all that much to do iOS backup stuff. The important thing on Windows, though, is to have a backup strategy. The nice thing about using a macOS device as your backup for iOS devices is that you can backup the Mac using Time Machine.

 

[0128672]

Could you use a desktop? You could probably pick most any Core i7 desktop from the past decade to do what you want and you could probably pick one up on the cheap or even for free. I just gave away one of my 435mt desktops (i7-920, 240 GB SSD, 24 GB RAM) to a security guard at my old employer and he was pretty happy with it. I have another with 48 GB of RAM - I will probably give it away if I do a new build.

People have been throwing these things out for a while - typically consumers buy an HP or Dell desktop, use it until it gets riddled with malware, complain that it's too slow and buy a new computer. A neighbor was going to do that but he asked my son to look at his PC and my son cleaned it up and he kept using it.

You really don't need all that much to do iOS backup stuff. The important thing on Windows, though, is to have a backup strategy. The nice thing about using a macOS device as your backup for iOS devices is that you can backup the Mac using Time Machine.

Thanks for the suggestion and I see that I omitted from the OP that it was a laptop I was after. I had a Mac Mini earlier this year after using Win and Mac laptops for a few years, and found I couldn't stand sitting at a desk now that I work from home when I can just as easily work from a comfy chair.

After using the Zephyrus for a couple of days, I returned it. It's a nice machine indeed, but the 16:9 aspect ratio, the chiclet keys, and uneven backlighting bugged me. For what's available under $1100, I ordered a refurb base config MBP 13". I also considered a Dell XPS 13 but I don't want to deal with Dell. A Mac is the path of least resistance for now and a refurb is low cost enough to consider an Arm MBP in a couple of years.

 

[retta283]

I am no fan of 16:9 screens, especially not on a laptop. Dell, I have had mixed experiences with. I've found the Dell latitude series to be reliable and efficient, although this was in the 2000s so I cannot speak for their current quality. Their consumer level products always broke down quick for me.

You may consider running Windows on the new MBP, as time goes on it might have better software support. Depends how long they support the last Intel machines with new OSes.

 

[0128672]

End of story: what happened after the 13" MBP? I'm embarrassed to say I returned that one too after a day. I ended up with an HP Envy x360 15.6" 10th gen i7/512 with 12GB RAM (upgradable to 32GB) from Best Buy in stock for $999. This is the right one for me. Love the all-aluminum case, ports, and the way it feels. Keyboard and trackpad feel and respond beautifully. Guess I've had my mind opened about HP.

With a 15.6" I don't mind the 16:9 at all; it was only an issue for me on the 13-14" sizes. I also bought a 3-year HP Care Pack on sale for $128 that's refundable if not used. All in all very pleased with this rig. Not sure I can ever go back to something smaller.

I would have liked to find a Ryzen 7 version but apparently they don't make it, only a Ryzen 5 and I'd have to order it from HP directly, which I decided not to do.

I've had this for a week now, and this one is a keeper ... no, really, I mean it. 😉

 

[pshufd]

End of story: what happened after the 13" MBP? I'm embarrassed to say I returned that one too after a day. I ended up with an HP Envy x360 15.6" 10th gen i7/512 with 12GB RAM (upgradable to 32GB) from Best Buy in stock for $999. This is the right one for me. Love the all-aluminum case, ports, and the way it feels. Keyboard and trackpad feel and respond beautifully. Guess I've had my mind opened about HP.

With a 15.6" I don't mind the 16:9 at all; it was only an issue for me on the 13-14" sizes. I also bought a 3-year HP Care Pack on sale for $128 that's refundable if not used. All in all very pleased with this rig. Not sure I can ever go back to something smaller.

I would have liked to find a Ryzen 7 version but apparently they don't make it, only a Ryzen 5 and I'd have to order it from HP directly, which I decided not to do.

I've had this for a week now, and this one is a keeper ... no, really, I mean it. 😉

I haven't touched HP products since I had a bunch of QC problems with a desktop we bought in 2005. I mark that as their QC issues, along with Mark Hurd's approach to management ("chainsaw Mark"). But I had a look and, Wow! My first thought was that it's an LG Gram. I went over the specs and it's very impressive. I looked at the specs for the 17.3 inch model They don't give you a lot of options but it looks very nice for an ultraportable. I would even consider buying one if it came with a 4k screen (the Gram comes with a QHD screen). But congrats on a very nice system. This class of system is in an area that Apple doesn't compete in. The price is quite reasonable too.

 

[filu_]

what happened after the 13" MBP? I'm embarrassed to say I returned that one too after a day

Hi, why did you return the MBP? I know you wanted Windows games, did that prevail?

I was about to buy a Mac to close the ecosystem, now I'm thinking about abandoning Linux and returning to Windows or abandoning iPhone and iPad and switching to Android and staying on Linux or switching to Android and Windows

 

[pshufd]

Hi, why did you return the MBP? I know you wanted Windows games, did that prevail?

I was about to buy a Mac to close the ecosystem, now I'm thinking about abandoning Linux and returning to Windows or abandoning iPhone and iPad and switching to Android and staying on Linux or switching to Android and Windows

I actually like various aspects of Windows over macOS. Windows provides so many tools and languages. If you can program, then you can build your own solutions to the deficiencies or inconsistencies in Windows. You may be able to find existing tools to do what you want as well though sometimes you have to pay for them yourself.

One thing that really bugged me about Windows was the workflow for a screen snippet. On macOS, it's Shift-Alt-Delete, select and the image is on your desktop. On Windows, it's Win-Shift-S, select and the snippet is copied to the paste buffer and a popup allows you to edit and save it. Click the popup and an image editor comes up. To save the image, hit the file button and then click save to save it. I wanted something as easy as macOS so I coded a PowerShell script. I hit PrintScreen, do the select and then click on a button in the taskbar which saves the snippet as an image on my desktop. So it is as efficient as the macOS approach. I do a lot of charts during the day and need to do screen snippets so the Windows default workflow really bugged me. I looked at third-party programs but none of them had the really short workflow of macOS.

 

[0128672]

Hi, why did you return the MBP? I know you wanted Windows games, did that prevail?

I was about to buy a Mac to close the ecosystem, now I'm thinking about abandoning Linux and returning to Windows or abandoning iPhone and iPad and switching to Android and staying on Linux or switching to Android and Windows

No doubt the MBP is a great machine, but I returned it because of the screen size, and it's a little hard to describe, but I felt in comparison to the Windows machines I had already tried, it was quite boring and limited and expensive for what you get. And I'm quite bored with macOS these days too.

The last machine I posted about here was an HP Envy, a very nice machine, but I returned that as well and went once again for a Asus Zephyrus G14 but higher spec this time (Ryzen 9/16/1TB/Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 Max-Q/Moonlight White) after Best Buy put it on sale for $100 off (so it was $1349). I was trying not to spend more than $1100, but realized spending a little more I got a lot more, so worth it to do that. The port selection is 2 USB-A, HDMI, 2 USB-C, headphone jack. To get anything close to this in a Mac would have cost a lot more.

I've had the G14 now for a couple of weeks and whew, this thing is speedy. Playing lots of great games and getting work done easily. I've used Macs for 35 years and plenty of Windows machines along the way, and I'm very comfortable with Windows 10 these days.