Diablo 2 Resurrected - not for macOS?

[Erehy Dobon]

Your logic is heavily flawed. Despite the fact that there has always been a Mac in my household for the past twenty years, the Mac's videogame library has decreased.

Look, we get that you are frustrated that this game -- and possibly others -- is not on Mac and may never be.

The fact of the matter is that nothing you write here will change the overall situation. There are probably 15-20 major factors that have influenced the state of gaming on the Mac today, it's not just one thing like people being "afraid" [sic]. Mac marketshare has slightly grown (percentage wise) in the past few years and certainly iOS devices make Apple's ecosystem something worth considering to both consumers who want to play videogames and developers who want to sell videogames.

Gripe all you want but Diablo 2 Resurrected isn't coming to the Mac. Neither is Resident Evil Village. Or the next Grand Theft Auto title. Wishful thinking won't help either. You can bury your head in the sand but Mac's trajectory is not headed toward a rich and deep library of quality game titles.

Remember that with Apple's transition to their own silicon, the compatibility of existing titles will drop further.

Your best hope is that these titles will eventually show up on streaming services like GeForce NOW.

Or buy a console.

Or buy a Windows PC.

 

[TBoneMac]

Your logic is heavily flawed. Despite the fact that there has always been a Mac in my household for the past twenty years, the Mac's videogame library has decreased.

Look, we get that you are frustrated that this game -- and possibly others -- is not on Mac and may never be.

The fact of the matter is that nothing you write here will change the overall situation. There are probably 15-20 major factors that have influenced the state of gaming on the Mac today, it's not just one thing like people being "afraid" [sic]. Mac marketshare has slightly grown (percentage wise) in the past few years and certainly iOS devices make Apple's ecosystem something worth considering to both consumers who want to play videogames and developers who want to sell videogames.

Gripe all you want but Diablo 2 Resurrected isn't coming to the Mac. Neither is Resident Evil Village. Or the next Grand Theft Auto title. Wishful thinking won't help either. You can bury your head in the sand but Mac's trajectory is not headed toward a rich and deep library of quality game titles.

Remember that with Apple's transition to their own silicon, the compatibility of existing titles will drop further.

Your best hope is that these titles will eventually show up on streaming services like GeForce NOW.

Or buy a console.

Or buy a Windows PC.

Yay! Buy a console or a windows PC with the money I don't have.

Nah, I just won't play video games. It really doesn't bother me that much I don't need video games to live. It's just a bad business move all-in-all for all these "AAA" video game makers. They're saving some money now by being lazy and not doing their jobs by porting to modern PCs like macOS but they're going to lose money in the long run by not porting//trying to port to macOS/iOS/iPadOS - Windows will hardly be the dominant PC in 25 years and Blizzard will probably not even exist anymore.

it's funny that people always complain about companies being greedy and here you all are defending Windows/Blizzard etc. Not surprising considering you all apparently have so much money that you could just throw it out the window but just so you all know, most people aren't rich like you guys.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Just wait for your stimulus check(s).

Consult a financial professional for more detailed and pointed guidance specific to your particular situation. I can't offer you any advice beyond the generic "get off the Internet and find a better paying job" type of suggestion.

Remember that videogame consoles are targeted at the typical consumer. That's why there are over 100 million PS4s in use.

Or download GeForce NOW right now for your Mac and hope that the games you want to play eventually make it to that cloud service.

Happy gaming!

 

[pmiles]

Yay! Buy a console or a windows PC with the money I don't have.

Nah, I just won't play video games. It really doesn't bother me that much I don't need video games to live. It's just a bad business move all-in-all for all these "AAA" video game makers. They're saving some money now by being lazy and not doing their jobs by porting to modern PCs like macOS but they're going to lose money in the long run by not porting//trying to port to macOS/iOS/iPadOS - Windows will hardly be the dominant PC in 25 years and Blizzard will probably not even exist anymore.

it's funny that people always complain about companies being greedy and here you all are defending Windows/Blizzard etc. Not surprising considering you all apparently have so much money that you could just throw it out the window but just so you all know, most people aren't rich like you guys.

I can't help but roll my eyes.

You are complaining that you aren't rich enough to buy a windows PC or a console and yet you own a Mac. Mac's are expensive machines. Vastly more expensive than their PC counterparts. If money was an issue, you wouldn't have bought a Mac in the first place.

The reason game companies don't port or write for the Mac platform has to do with market share. Why is their market share so small? Oh, I don't know, maybe because they are more expensive and less upgradeable, et al than a windows PC?

If you want to play games... have the largest possible selection of games to play, the ONLY option is to switch to a windows PC for desktop or buy a console. It's really that simple. So simple as to have been the truth for several decades now. Not rocket science. Didn't happen overnight. It's been that way forever.

You can complain about lack of game support until your face turns blue. It's not going to change anything. Now, If you can find a way to marry into Bill Gates or Elon Musk's family, then, you can take all their fortune and buy all the game companies and force them to develop for the Mac platform. That is the only way you're going to get the game companies to develop for the Mac platform. The only way.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Yay! Buy a console or a windows PC with the money I don't have.

If you have the money or not is another story. You can't buy into an ecosystem and complain you're not getting everything you want. It doesn't work this way, it never did. And neither does it make sense.
When you subscribe to Netflix, you don't complain about not being able to watch Star Wars or Marvel series which are on Disney+. If you want to watch those, subscribe to Disney+ instead or both.

Back in the 8-/16-Bit days when someone bought a Nintendo console to play Mario you didn't get to play Sonic from Sega, or Wonderboy or whatever. You had to buy a Sega console as well... or a PC Engine, Neo Geo, Jaguar, 3DO, whatever. I'm not sure where you get the idea of cross platform all the way for everything. Do you complain about Sony not being able to "Last of Us" on the Mac too?

While we're at it, how dare Apple for not offering macOS to be installed on any system out there. I want to go go out buy a AMD CPU and Nvidia GPU now, with any mainboard and install macOS. If Apple don't offer it, they're lazy, they have no idea about what they're doing, they lose money and they will be gone in 25 years.

They're saving some money now by being lazy and not doing their jobs by porting to modern PCs like macOS but they're going to lose money in the long run by not porting//trying to port to macOS/iOS/iPadOS - Windows will hardly be the dominant PC in 25 years and Blizzard will probably not even exist anymore.

Again, I fail to see how they're making money in the long run. When a game costs $150M to make, to port it over to the Mac is another $75M and total number of sales is about 30 million copies for an average of $30, with a 3% market share, then they're not even getting the cost for the port back. So by NOT porting it over, they will SAVE money, not lose it.

Porting really make sense as soon as you flip a switch and put very little time and effort into it. That's what it works so well for "small" games, simple 2D-platformers

Funny you say Windows won't be around in 25 years. I remember people saying that 25 years ago. No offense, but you come over as very, very young. Have you actually looked at what companies are using these days? Microsoft is everywhere, Client/Servers, everywhere. Also as a service like Teams/Skype/Office. If you think this is simply going to change, you have never worked in IT. You can change very specific but niche target markets, like medical, music, audio. You will never have the number of sales as "normal" office machines. Look what Dell is shipping, HP, Lenovo, ...

it's funny that people always complain about companies being greedy and here you all are defending Windows/Blizzard etc.

Who's complaining about it? Money rules the world and if you want to make a new AAA game that costs $150M, then that money has to come from somewhere. It comes from previous games/products. Making AAA games isn't as simple as it used to be anymore 20 or 30 years ago. Look what you get for iOS/macOS... mostly simple games that are easy to make from a technological point of view.

But in the end, you already said you won't play it and that's perfectly fine. Those who want it will play it on the platform of their choice and Blizzard will make the sales there. No one hurt, life goes on.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

If you want to play games... have the largest possible selection of games to play, the ONLY option is to switch to a windows PC for desktop or buy a console. It's really that simple. So simple as to have been the truth for several decades now. Not rocket science. Didn't happen overnight. It's been that way forever.

These points have been pounded again and again by various people in this thread and other threads yet some participants just can't grasp simple concepts. Maybe COVID-19 fried their brains, I don't know.

 

[buttongerald]

I'm amazed this "discussion", is still going. As much as I would love for the game to release on macOS, the cold hard truth is that it just won't.

In the next 1-2 years there are only really 3 games I want to play.. Diablo 2: Resurrected, Diablo 4, and Age of Empires 4. We are more likely to see Sega returning to console development on a scale similar to Sony than we are those games launching on macOS.

It's why I have started tucking away money to switch to PC. Will I have it in time for these titles launch window? Probably not, but I will eventually.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

I think that the move to Apple Silicon will be the best thing Apple has ever done for Mac gaming. I’m sure it will take a while, but having much more powerful processors combined with people not being able to run windows (assuming intel Mac users will run windows games, or to keep selling old 32 bit games for years was the lazy / cheap option that game developers have taken in recent years but is no longer possible). If companies like blizzard don’t embrace the move to Apple Silicon then I’m sure that in time plenty of other game developers - hopefully lots of new ones - will simply take their place.

 

[Washac]

Not bothered about it coming to Mac I will just play it on the Playstation.

Apple is not bothered about giving the market something for the gaming community or a reasonably priced Mac Pro desk top other that these all in one super skinny things that you cannot do anything with that they think everybody wants, so I am not bothered to support them anymore like I used to.

 

[Realityck]

I think that the move to Apple Silicon will be the best thing Apple has ever done for Mac gaming. I’m sure it will take a while, but having much more powerful processors combined with people not being able to run windows (assuming intel Mac users will run windows games, or to keep selling old 32 bit games for years was the lazy / cheap option that game developers have taken in recent years but is no longer possible). If companies like blizzard don’t embrace the move to Apple Silicon then I’m sure that in time plenty of other game developers - hopefully lots of new ones - will simply take their place.

I currently play Diablo 3 seasons for so long until bored using a Mac. The next season (23) sometime April does something no previous season did in a long time which takes away some kind of bonus that can be used to the advantage of a group meta away, and places it onto your solo play follower. So now the follower can wear different armor including set items providing its own skills. It’s like taking the game back from group meta so that solo playing is a lot more accented and viable. For all this moaning about the very old campaign limited fancy graphics Diablo2 Resurrected not being available at this time let others have it. Now the only real mystery currently is how useful for gaming will be the next generation of Macs, that has yet to be discovered. Yes all the OS changes have been directed towards the transition, game developers are just as curious as we all are to what’s shown off next at WWDC.

 

[NotTooLate]

MS are locking out everyone else out of gaming , one day at a time , DX is the most locked down API in a big industry ever , basically , if you are creating a game for PC (not using the big engines (Unreal/Unity), but your own engine , which a lot of the big developers use to save the costs) you put so much time and effort optimizing to DX to make your game better , it creates a massive overhead to code it for Metal as well , and as most of your sales will be on PC or Xbox (same API) and PS5 (which does use a different API , but worth to investment due to sales potential)

Microsoft are also throwing their weight around , buying studios left and right , and now they are starting to make them make "PC & Xbox only" games , see Betsheda 7.5B!!! usd purchase just now , as they are so big I would assume more purchases are on the way.

MS are off to the races here , and unless Apple are going to put billions of dollars into gaming studios , this wont happen "naturally" , natural market policies are not applicable in such marketplace anymore , this is even worse then streaming ,as the tech lockdown is crazy on the MS side.

 

[buttongerald]

Lots of words about Microsoft.

Uhh, what? This thread is about Blizzard and their lack of give a **** about macOS. Has nothing really to do with PC gaming as a whole or who is buying out who.

Blizzard just don't care about macOS anymore and are sticking with what works. Plain and simple. Games sell on Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft platforms, and not on macOS based ones. This is what they will be doing going forward.

Microsoft are also throwing their weight around , buying studios left and right , and now they are starting to make them make "PC & Xbox only" games , see Betsheda 7.5B!!! usd purchase just now , as they are so big I would assume more purchases are on the way.

Good. I am in favour of this. Why you might ask? Choice. Make my choice to purchase YOUR console worth it to me. When it came to the last generation consoles there was almost no difference in the hardware and very little exclusive titles. If you want Grade A+ exclusives you'd have to look at Nintendo more so than Sony or Microsoft.

I want to see more exclusive games. Give me a reason to want your console over the other guys. If I had to make a choice between say, playing the new Elder Scrolls or Fall Out on Xbox or playing the new Final Fantasy on PlayStation, that's a damn hard choice and I need to think carefully about it.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

I want to see more exclusive games. Give me a reason to want your console over the other guys. If I had to make a choice between say, playing the new Elder Scrolls or Fall Out on Xbox or playing the new Final Fantasy on PlayStation, that's a damn hard choice and I need to think carefully about it.

As I mentioned elsewhere once before if you have a Windows gaming PC the answer is now quite clear. Get Xbox Game Pass for your PC (for the Bethesda titles) and buy a PlayStation for its exclusive titles.

Remember that existing Bethesda titles aren't going to evaporate overnight. There are contractual obligations to keep those games where they have been. Plus Microsoft doesn't want to give up an existing streams of revenue from the installed userbase.

The Bethesda exclusivity to Game Pass will be for future titles.

If you like modding games (e.g., Skyrim) you're far better off playing on a Windows PC anyhow.

 

[TBoneMac]

Uhh, what? This thread is about Blizzard and their lack of give a **** about macOS. Has nothing really to do with PC gaming as a whole or who is buying out who.

Blizzard just don't care about macOS anymore and are sticking with what works. Plain and simple. Games sell on Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft platforms, and not on macOS based ones. This is what they will be doing going forward.

yeah, blizzard is not great anymore so it doesn't really bother me. I am expecting Diablo 4 to be good but nothing classic and diablo 2 resurrected is nothing more than a remake so I can easily just boot up windows and play the old Diablo 2 since it's just as good or get a switch if I wanted but I don't really like the idea of supporting blizzard anymore since they don't support their lifetime fans

 

[GrumpyCoder]

So I was reading some stuff about Diablo and PoE earlier today and stumbled across a recommendation for another game called Last Epoch, which has been in Beta for a while now, but with all the bells and whistles for macOS support. Created an account only to find it's $35 for a Beta with no multipler yet (?), but includes the full game when it's released. It's supposed to be a mix of Diablo 2 and PoE, but I couldn't find the Mac version... so did search a little further and found two messages from developers:

Greetings Travelers,

We’ve recently had to make a difficult decision regarding the future of our macOS client for Last Epoch due to Apple’s announced upcoming transition to ARM-based Macs [“Apple Silicon”].

The future of Macs is promising, but at this time Apple’s transition will involve dropping instruction set support for the Intel and AMD CPUs that power most modern computers. Similar to other games, Last Epoch relies on those instruction sets and a number of third-party libraries to function properly. While many organizations have expressed a desire to adopt support for ARM-based Macs, it is unclear whether all of these libraries will be updated as necessary and how long it may take their new versions to become fully stable and feature complete.

Unfortunately, it is not within our means as an indie team with limited resources to properly support these upcoming Macs therefore will no longer be releasing updates on MacOS. However, Mac players will still be able to play the latest Last Epoch content through Apple’s Boot Camp feature and when using computers running Windows or Linux.

And from another developer:

The current Mac client will remain available for a considerable period of time but we will no longer be releasing updates on macOS.

Speaks volumes and exactly what we see with Path of Exile, which isn't running on ARM based Macs either, due to missing instructions in 3rd party libraries. Wouldn't be surprised if the current league in PoE is the last one for macOS.
We'll probably see many more game developers jump the ship and leave the Mac behind. At least Last Epoch is offering Linux support as it seems.

On a side note, I was able to run most stuff I need (except games) on my Macs including my fully specced MBP16 (except for the SSD which is only 2TB). I recently found it's pretty much impossible to keep this up or so time consuming it's not worth it in the current Apple software ecosystem, which is a mess. So today I brought home a Razer 15" gaming laptop with 8-core CPU, 32GB RAM and Nvidia RTX 5000 with 16GB. That way I can run the stuff I need which doesn't work on macOS / Macs while being mobile. It looks like a 15"/16" MBA/MBP with low specs is in my future with Apple, for the lightweight daily tasks, while the rest has to be loaded off to other machines. Sad times.

That being said, I think it's the right move for Apple to go all in on AS/ARM. But it will probably be a few years before we have the software support, so people can work properly again. That is, for everyone who isn't just browsing the web, reading mails and is not a creative person cutting videos or using Photoshop all day long.

 

[TBoneMac]

So I was reading some stuff about Diablo and PoE earlier today and stumbled across a recommendation for another game called Last Epoch, which has been in Beta for a while now, but with all the bells and whistles for macOS support. Created an account only to find it's $35 for a Beta with no multipler yet (?), but includes the full game when it's released. It's supposed to be a mix of Diablo 2 and PoE, but I couldn't find the Mac version... so did search a little further and found two messages from developers:


And from another developer:

Speaks volumes and exactly what we see with Path of Exile, which isn't running on ARM based Macs either, due to missing instructions in 3rd party libraries. Wouldn't be surprised if the current league in PoE is the last one for macOS.
We'll probably see many more game developers jump the ship and leave the Mac behind. At least Last Epoch is offering Linux support as it seems.

On a side note, I was able to run most stuff I need (except games) on my Macs including my fully specced MBP16 (except for the SSD which is only 2TB). I recently found it's pretty much impossible to keep this up or so time consuming it's not worth it in the current Apple software ecosystem, which is a mess. So today I brought home a Razer 15" gaming laptop with 8-core CPU, 32GB RAM and Nvidia RTX 5000 with 16GB. That way I can run the stuff I need which doesn't work on macOS / Macs while being mobile. It looks like a 15"/16" MBA/MBP with low specs is in my future with Apple, for the lightweight daily tasks, while the rest has to be loaded off to other machines. Sad times.

That being said, I think it's the right move for Apple to go all in on AS/ARM. But it will probably be a few years before we have the software support, so people can work properly again. That is, for everyone who isn't just browsing the web, reading mails and is not a creative person cutting videos or using Photoshop all day long.

Absolutely agreed GCoder. I also noticed that last epoch was giving up on macOS for the current time being.


ill have to invest in a windows pc or boot camp windows for diablo 2 resurrecited and PoE and other games it seems... maybe in 5 or 10 years more developers will be developing for macOS arm systems and we’ll be able to have our cake and eat it finally.. here’s hoping.. I am sure we’ll be chatting in these forums when that time comes gcoder.

I might just get a Nintendo switch for Diablo 2 Resurrected etc... because I’d rather not spend so much on a whole new PC.

 

[Realityck]

 

[TBoneMac]

Uhh, what? This thread is about Blizzard and their lack of give a **** about macOS. Has nothing really to do with PC gaming as a whole or who is buying out who.

Blizzard just don't care about macOS anymore and are sticking with what works. Plain and simple. Games sell on Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft platforms, and not on macOS based ones. This is what they will be doing going forward.



Good. I am in favour of this. Why you might ask? Choice. Make my choice to purchase YOUR console worth it to me. When it came to the last generation consoles there was almost no difference in the hardware and very little exclusive titles. If you want Grade A+ exclusives you'd have to look at Nintendo more so than Sony or Microsoft.

I want to see more exclusive games. Give me a reason to want your console over the other guys. If I had to make a choice between say, playing the new Elder Scrolls or Fall Out on Xbox or playing the new Final Fantasy on PlayStation, that's a damn hard choice and I need to think carefully about it.

I disagree, this has everything to do with MicroSoft and their DX policies. MicroSoft is after all a company that uses any kind of "monopoly" to profit. MicroSoft is a greedy company much like Google. They both buy out people's ideas and then monopolize them or stifle competition. Just look at how Google is basically the only search engine the average person knows of or how 85% of the desktop PC and laptops are windows simply because windows utilizes their power to create pseudo-monopolies over markets as they are doing with PC gaming or how they essentially forced people to use windows in the 90s because of their software and since then many people have opted not to switch away from windows due to familiarity. They knew what they were doing when they had their monopoly with MicroSoft Word and Internet Explorer. What they did was made everyone in the world comfortable with Windows for such a long time that, now, no one wants to switch to macOS. Since it's been like this for about 2 decades, of course most games have been developed for Windows because most people use windows and most people cave in after a certain amount of years and give up on macOS due to the allure of the Windows monopoly (whatever it may be at the time). Currently the windows "monopoly" is over PC gaming.

If you don't think that windows can "buy out" gaming companies whether in public or under the table you're naive. Apple doesn't buy out gaming companies to "have the better OS", Apple simple has the better OS. MicroSoft on the other hand has always done everything they could to keep as many people as possible in Windows even breaking the laws and it's very obvious that MicroSoft didn't care that they had done that. They were just upset that they got sued//split into two.

Don't buy into windows//microsoft. If they don't make games for macOS get a Playstation or a Nintendo Switch but I ask and hope that none of you will buy a windows PC as all it does is support the "pseudo-monopoly" microsoft wishes to keep standing.


As for console exclusives... The reason there's hardly any for Sony and Microsoft is because Sony and Microsoft are not AAAA+ game makers. They're huge companies that do tons of things well but making games was one of the last things they started "doing". Sony is great at making cameras and things like that. Which is why the playstation is quite good, but they're not great at making games, they're good but not great. Microsoft is the same way except they're even worse at making games they're more focused on operating systems and software, not video games. While video games "are" software, it's not exactly MicroSofts speciality. Hence why there's no "mario" of MicroSoft for example. They need other people to make the games for them in other words you're supporting a company that doesn't even make games they just started selling games to people because they saw the opportunity in the monopoly they had created at the time (early 2000s late 1990s)

Anyways. Do what you want but MicroSoft is a monopoly empire and Google is too. They grow by exploiting laws which directly affects the consumer. They both have monopoly systems in place that stifle competition. This is not the kind of company anyone would want to support. I'll gladly wait many years to game on a macOS or just buy a Nintendo console instead of buying a windows PC.

After all, I bought a macOS because it's awesome. Not to game on it. I couldn't care less about games anyways at this point, playing intruments is way more interesting and fun for example. I mean once in a while it's fun to play games but it's gotten pretty old after gaming for my whole life. Honestly would be happy to see games take a nosedive as far as popularity goes. Anyone else feel the same? Like games have been pretty boring for a while now. Nothing new or exciting for a seasoned gamer? I mean the last Zelda game was a lot of fun but I'm not playing it anymore, Stardew Valley was good but it's nothing new per say. I guess nothing is new and that's just how things are right so that's alright. I am hoping for some exciting new games always but I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out.

Graphics are one thing, I mean I know games in the next generation are going to be extremely detailed graphically but to be honest. I really couldn't care less. Graphics =/= Game... But it seems the only innovation for gaming genres//etc in the past 10 years has been graphical improvements and physics improvements but nothing that's been hugely impactful.

 

[NotTooLate]

I disagree, this has everything to do with MicroSoft and their DX policies. MicroSoft is after all a company that uses any kind of "monopoly" to profit. MicroSoft is a greedy company much like Google. They both buy out people's ideas and then monopolize them or stifle competition. Just look at how Google is basically the only search engine the average person knows of or how 85% of the desktop PC and laptops are windows simply because windows utilizes their power to create pseudo-monopolies over markets as they are doing with PC gaming or how they essentially forced people to use windows in the 90s because of their software and since then many people have opted not to switch away from windows due to familiarity. They knew what they were doing when they had their monopoly with MicroSoft Word and Internet Explorer. What they did was made everyone in the world comfortable with Windows for such a long time that, now, no one wants to switch to macOS. Since it's been like this for about 2 decades, of course most games have been developed for Windows because most people use windows and most people cave in after a certain amount of years and give up on macOS due to the allure of the Windows monopoly (whatever it may be at the time). Currently the windows "monopoly" is over PC gaming.

If you don't think that windows can "buy out" gaming companies whether in public or under the table you're naive. Apple doesn't buy out gaming companies to "have the better OS", Apple simple has the better OS. MicroSoft on the other hand has always done everything they could to keep as many people as possible in Windows even breaking the laws and it's very obvious that MicroSoft didn't care that they had done that. They were just upset that they got sued//split into two.

Don't buy into windows//microsoft. If they don't make games for macOS get a Playstation or a Nintendo Switch but I ask and hope that none of you will buy a windows PC as all it does is support the "pseudo-monopoly" microsoft wishes to keep standing.


As for console exclusives... The reason there's hardly any for Sony and Microsoft is because Sony and Microsoft are not AAAA+ game makers. They're huge companies that do tons of things well but making games was one of the last things they started "doing". Sony is great at making cameras and things like that. Which is why the playstation is quite good, but they're not great at making games, they're good but not great. Microsoft is the same way except they're even worse at making games they're more focused on operating systems and software, not video games. While video games "are" software, it's not exactly MicroSofts speciality. Hence why there's no "mario" of MicroSoft for example. They need other people to make the games for them in other words you're supporting a company that doesn't even make games they just started selling games to people because they saw the opportunity in the monopoly they had created at the time (early 2000s late 1990s)

Anyways. Do what you want but MicroSoft is a monopoly empire and Google is too. They grow by exploiting laws which directly affects the consumer. They both have monopoly systems in place that stifle competition. This is not the kind of company anyone would want to support. I'll gladly wait many years to game on a macOS or just buy a Nintendo console instead of buying a windows PC.

After all, I bought a macOS because it's awesome. Not to game on it. I couldn't care less about games anyways at this point, playing intruments is way more interesting and fun for example. I mean once in a while it's fun to play games but it's gotten pretty old after gaming for my whole life. Honestly would be happy to see games take a nosedive as far as popularity goes. Anyone else feel the same? Like games have been pretty boring for a while now. Nothing new or exciting for a seasoned gamer? I mean the last Zelda game was a lot of fun but I'm not playing it anymore, Stardew Valley was good but it's nothing new per say. I guess nothing is new and that's just how things are right so that's alright. I am hoping for some exciting new games always but I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out.

Graphics are one thing, I mean I know games in the next generation are going to be extremely detailed graphically but to be honest. I really couldn't care less. Graphics =/= Game... But it seems the only innovation for gaming genres//etc in the past 10 years has been graphical improvements and physics improvements but nothing that's been hugely impactful.

Totally agree on MS locking things down with DX is the biggest obstacle for gaming on mac or Linux , I wish we had in gaming what we have in movie theater and home media , where the standards are known and used across the industry , apple can’t use DX even if they wanted to license it , so we are left out of gaming, gaming is not for me anymore and my pc gaming machine is idle for most of the year , I am waiting on Xcom3 and POE2 , if blizzard makes a Warcraft 4 or sc3 I’ll play those as well

 

[jeanlain]

Totally agree on MS locking things down with DX is the biggest obstacle for gaming on mac or Linux

No, the biggest hurdle is the insufficient user base. Remember that most games using Unreal Engine or Unity don't have macOS versions, even though these engines work well on macOS.

 

[NotTooLate]

No, the biggest hurdle is the insufficient user base. Remember that most games using Unreal Engine or Unity don't have macOS versions, even though these engines work well on macOS.

So how much is a critical mass then ? Mac is 12% market share ? Or a bit less , it’s also probably much higher when it comes to capable gaming machines as most pc are garbage tier hw wise , and that numbers will increase with each new AS machine bought.
I will say that the 12% is also filled with macs that are not capable of running games in a good manner , still if it’s just numbers I think they will be there very soon , but I think it’s not just that

 

[GrumpyCoder]

So how much is a critical mass then ? Mac is 12% market share ? Or a bit less , it’s also probably much higher when it comes to capable gaming machines as most pc are garbage tier hw wise , and that numbers will increase with each new AS machine bought.
I will say that the 12% is also filled with macs that are not capable of running games in a good manner , still if it’s just numbers I think they will be there very soon , but I think it’s not just that

The total market share of Macs is absolutely irrelevant, because not every Mac user is playing games. Not every Windows user is playing games either, so you can't simply look at total number of OS/systems sold. You'll have to look at the market share in relation to those people playing games. And that's about 3% for the Mac when looking at the desktop market (Windows, macOS and Linux). It's just not feasible to port games to macOS unless developers are using off-the-shelf engines that allow to flip a switch and compile for macOS. Ironically that's usually the case for "simple" and "cheap" indie games and not for games costing $50M+.

People also forget Nvidia, which is a major factor for AAA titles as they provide help for major developers for free. Obviously they do it to sell hardware. AMD isn't doing this and neither is Apple. When blowing $100M or more on a game, then better be sure to have Nvidia by your side. Apple and Nvidia are no longer in business. For consoles, MS and Sony are providing similar services directly or through their game studios. Nintendo is a mess when it comes to this.

Funny enough, back in the PPC days Apple provides such service. It was very easy to pick up the phone and call "your guy at Apple" and ask for help. Those days are long gone. And since Apple is only interested to lock people in their own eco-system (Metal and now Mx-SoCs), similar to what MS is doing with DirectX, it makes even less sense to bother about it. Everyone is competing financially and with macOS there's just no profit to be made with games. Pretty simple actually, if developing costs more money than you can make with sales, then it's not worth doing it. In fact you're saving money by not doing it. ?‍♂️

 

[NotTooLate]

The total market share of Macs is absolutely irrelevant, because not every Mac user is playing games. Not every Windows user is playing games either, so you can't simply look at total number of OS/systems sold. You'll have to look at the market share in relation to those people playing games. And that's about 3% for the Mac when looking at the desktop market (Windows, macOS and Linux). It's just not feasible to port games to macOS unless developers are using off-the-shelf engines that allow to flip a switch and compile for macOS. Ironically that's usually the case for "simple" and "cheap" indie games and not for games costing $50M+.

People also forget Nvidia, which is a major factor for AAA titles as they provide help for major developers for free. Obviously they do it to sell hardware. AMD isn't doing this and neither is Apple. When blowing $100M or more on a game, then better be sure to have Nvidia by your side. Apple and Nvidia are no longer in business. For consoles, MS and Sony are providing similar services directly or through their game studios. Nintendo is a mess when it comes to this.

Funny enough, back in the PPC days Apple provides such service. It was very easy to pick up the phone and call "your guy at Apple" and ask for help. Those days are long gone. And since Apple is only interested to lock people in their own eco-system (Metal and now Mx-SoCs), similar to what MS is doing with DirectX, it makes even less sense to bother about it. Everyone is competing financially and with macOS there's just no profit to be made with games. Pretty simple actually, if developing costs more money than you can make with sales, then it's not worth doing it. In fact you're saving money by not doing it. ?‍♂️

Again , you are ignoring the potential growth in gaming capable macs , which until now was reserved to high end macs as the more basic machines were just Intel + iGPU that sucked , you are looking at today landscape and determine the future , which is usually a bad idea of predicting , if you believe Apple doesnt care or dont want to put the money/effort into it , sure thats a stand you can make , but in regards to available market of gamers , i think the transition will present new opportunities , Apple needs to put money in to jump start the thing , but they are growing , and their growth is in the consumer space which is where gaming is sold at.

We can do a review in 1 year and see how we do!!! grumpy coders might not like code reviews as they are grumpy , but we shall have one nontheless , as my predictions involves nothing but guessing sprinkled with some fact i cannot say who is right , sprinkling some bias towards Mac HW , and here we are.

TLDR - once Unity + Unreal5 are native Metal + new AS silicon comes out (hopefully giving us great GPU power and memory BW) we should be seeing games (AAA) coming to the Mac , if in 1 year we wont start seeing the trend changing , i will admit defeat !

 

[leman]

Your logic is heavily flawed. Despite the fact that there has always been a Mac in my household for the past twenty years, the Mac's videogame library has decreased.

This surprises me, as my impression is exactly the opposite. Nearly every game I am interested in nowadays has macOS support, with good performance. My steam library has hundreds of games, most of them with native Mac support. I suppose it also depends on the genre. AAA shooters for example never had a foothold on macOS due to their higher demands on the graphical subsystem.

Going back to the context of this thread and the question of Diablo II on macOS, the situation appress to be fairly simple. Blizzard is shipping the game using the old 32-bit code and as such it is not compatible with 64-bit only Macs. If you want to play that game, you will be able to do so via a Windows virtual machine.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Again , you are ignoring the potential growth in gaming capable macs , which until now was reserved to high end macs as the more basic machines were just Intel + iGPU that sucked , you are looking at today landscape and determine the future , which is usually a bad idea of predicting , if you believe Apple doesnt care or dont want to put the money/effort into it , sure thats a stand you can make , but in regards to available market of gamers , i think the transition will present new opportunities , Apple needs to put money in to jump start the thing , but they are growing , and their growth is in the consumer space which is where gaming is sold at.

Of course it's a chicken or egg problem. There's always potential. There's also potential the whole gaming industry will switch to a proof-of-concept operating system I wrote ages ago to learn how these things work. Chances are slim to none though.

What I see is Apple locking down their software ecosystem further and further to the point where you need two dedicated versions of a game to support Windows and macOS. Leave aside artwork, servers, etc. This is expensive and that's what matters. The whole research and prototyping field is already moving away from Apple because of this, so that doesn't help either. The gaming industry is moving towards Nvidia, away from AMD even in Windows-world.

When you can make the money back, no problem. I've developed OS X and iOS exclusive software for a very specialized field for many years. Could have ported it to Windows/Linux, but didn't to keep the ecosystem of the software clean. Servers were based on Linux. In the end, when selling such a system for $500k+ and the hardware you put in costs you $100k, then the $400k difference is made by of-the-shelf software licenses + consulting/installation. Well worth it, considering how much time is put into development. You can scale this up of course to $1M, $5M, ... * number of sales per year.

If they'd start selling games for $500 per macOS game, the story might be different. For now we're facing very high development costs, due to the size of teams and long development times in the game sector. In the end it's simple math. Can you make a profit off macOS games considering costs of porting and maintenance. If that's a yes, we'll see macOS games. If a no, then we won't.

If anything, we'll see more indie games made with Unity/Unreal that require a flip of a switch to port it over. If anything platform specific is in the game, be it a custom engine or even with Unity/Unreal as an engine, that'll be much harder and expensive. For a AAA game, if you're lucky the port is maybe 50% of the overall cost. If you're not so lucky, it can go much higher.

The other side isn't sleeping either. Nvidia is reaching out for the market big time. There were some interesting talks from game developers at GTC (which isn't even a game conference) this year. So in addition to providing the hardware, they also have to up their game for the technology (hardware and software) itself. Right now, the M1 GPU for games is at a level just below a Nvidia 1650 which retails for $160. That's amazing for a SoC, but for gamers not so much. I'd sure like to see "DLSS" and "RTX" from Apple, in a similar quality to what Nvidia is providing even if it's just a proof-of-concept.

Looking at the neural engine, there's much more potential in the M1 as it can easily beat a 2080Ti for DL training as long as the models are not too large due to lack of memory. There is a reason we're using RTX8000 on simple desktops where the card comes with 48GB of memory and link them for even more. The bigger problem is the software, where what Apple provides is pretty useless and the fork they started for Tensorflow is in a catastrophic state.

Ironically the parts where Apple is ahead of the competition (CPU and NE part of the SoC) are the parts that matter little for gaming. The GPU that matters, is lacking behind. That is ignoring the energy consumption, which the gamer at home doesn't care about. For the M1 power consumption, it's simply a phenomenal chip.

The people I spoke to in the gaming industry this year all say, if it's not too much trouble and time consuming to port things over, then they'll take it. But if they have to put too much work and effort into it, it's a hard pass. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Personally I'll just use what's required. If that's Windows or a Playstation so be it, but I won't play games such as Diablo 2/3/4 or PoE on a console. ?‍♂️

My steam library has hundreds of games, most of them with native Mac support. I suppose it also depends on the genre. AAA shooters for example never had a foothold on macOS due to their higher demands on the graphical subsystem.

Yes, that depends on the game/genre. Looking at my Steam library, I have about 5% of the games available for macOS. That is 64-bit macOS, it used to be more in the past.