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What is your job? Secure PDFs are required to be that way for legal reasons--financial results, personal medical information, etc. What is your job such that clients are sending you PDFs without sending you the passwords?

Just going to add in here, following up on @eyoungren ’s experience:

As a former graphic artist (first career) and also as a scholar (after first career), the ability to unlock PDFs from, respectively, clients and from the occasional time I’d find a citation reference I couldn’t access from within the university’s subscriptions (to most, but not all of the journal distributors), the means to open and annotate for both, respectively, client assets and for my own research, was essential, pivotal for getting the job done.

I know it may seem fatuous to you, dpny, but this was the original purpose, design, and function of the PDF, or portable document format: basically, it was the invention of “digital paper”, arising from Adobe’s postscript encoding for laser printers, and it delivered on the portability to afford the user that portability. This came in especially handy when working with postscript-encoded vectors embedded within a PDF.

And yes, one didn’t start running into many PDFs anywhere until Acrobat 2.1 became 3.0, back in the mid ’90s. All the password security garbage was, as with the security fixes for the world wide web itself, an afterthought… a kludge.

So if we’re going to have a conversation about security and password123s, then we should probably open this discussion to how most technologies online and with modern tech generally is just kludge atop kludge, producing heavy payloads atop jenga foundations.

But from my vantage, it’s a banal and boring discussion to have. You‘re welcome to it, of course.

Did anyone else feel hoodwinked when the Intel switch was announced ?


A bit. When the announcement arrived, I owned two Macs — one of which I’d purchased new, a Power Mac G4, in ’99.

From my vantage then, my frustration was in knowing that, as with the 68K/FAT/PPC transition, a whole lot of what I regarded as “static” software (that is: software which really didn’t require updates very often since their core functions were unchanged… FTP clients come to mind here) would need to be re-purchased, somewhat needlessly so.

Upgrades for my existing hardware would be, definitively, coming to a halt. And, frankly, I was dubious of what Intel had on queue back then as far as chip platforms: the 32-bit stuff leading into Yonah; Itanium (heavy heavy); and the new Xeons (lighter, but still spendy af and fairly energy-hungry like, frankly, the PPC970s). I was disappointed because I had grown up with both 68K and PowerPC architectures — with the latter having been an active user from very start to finish. I had watched them and worked with them throughout their lifetimes.

Without working on the software development side, I nevertheless did know the G5 design with IBM and deployment was a dog’s breakfast. I was, frankly, looking forward to the AIM alliance co-operating a bit better for a lighter, better planned and integrated, 64-bit roadmap for what would have become the eventual PowerPC G6 series — one which would appear in both laptop and desktop form.

Then again, I was not privy to the inner workings of Silicon Valley or its constant and petty drama, so I wasn’t up to speed with the way Apple — or, more to the point, Jobs — had been snubbing and neglecting (for want of a better, less snarky word) their working relationship with Motorola/Freescale.

It wouldn’t be until over three years after the WWDC announcement before I finally started to use an Intel Mac. During the intervening time, I had traded one PowerPC Mac for another PPC model, and bought an open box new iBook G4 to become my daily driver for most of those last two years before moving on to that first Intel Mac. I thought then — and still think now — the iBook G4 case’s ruggedness was better made and more resilient to breakage than the A1181 MacBooks (and time has, more or less, bore this to be so). I also know the iBook G4’s case made access to consumables (namely, the hard drive) to be a pest, but the MacBook need not have been of cheaper case materials.

By the time I bought a second Intel Mac, in 2009, many of the teething pains had been worked out, and the coincident arrival of Snow Leopard made me, at first, a reluctant convert, but over the course of Snow Leopard being refined, made me realize just how solid and stable Snow Leopard was. It was more that Snow Leopard made me a convert — though probably more a convert of Snow Leopard than of, merely, Intel Macs.

Anyhow, tl;dr: I can say I remember exactly where I was when I first heard the WWDC announcement in June 2005, from whom I heard the news, and basically the time of day and the sidewalk on which we were walking. Which is to say: yes, as a longtime user and consumer of Macs, I felt a bit like a bait-and-switch had just taken place.
 
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digidna-misha

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Apr 12, 2022
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No. It was clear PPC was a dead platform: Motorola wasn't really interested in competing in the desktop space any more, and IBM wasn't going to make a G5 which could fit in a laptop without setting it on fire, so Apple had to do something.

This is the key history lesson I'm glad one (!) person here remembers.

As important as the iMac was, without a competitive laptop lineup, Apple would have been toast.

As a bonus, the ability to dual-boot Windows made the Apple price premium more palatable for switchers.
 
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zakarhino

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Sep 13, 2014
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Saw this in the sidebar and expected to read a thread about the move from Intel to Apple Silicon and imagine by surprise when what's actually being talked about is the move TO Intel from PowerPC :p:D
 

TheShortTimer

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Mar 27, 2017
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No. It was clear PPC was a dead platform: Motorola wasn't really interested in competing in the desktop space any more, and IBM wasn't going to make a G5 which could fit in a laptop without setting it on fire, so Apple had to do something.

Microsoft made IBM an offer they couldn't refuse and their energies shifted to designing a PPC CPU for the Xbox 360, seeing that Redmond decided to switch from Intel's x86 to PPC for its second generation console. ;)

And when I got my 2010 Mac Pro I was amazed at how fast it was compared to my Dual G5.

Well of course a computer released in 2010 is going to outperform one from five years earlier. That's a huge amount of time in terms of technological advances. It would be more amazing (or worrying!) if it didn't.
 

TheShortTimer

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And then back to x86 (AMD Jaguar) for the Xbox One. ;) (Sorry, just couldn’t resist :D)

giphy.gif
 

Feek

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2009
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If they hadn't changed to Intel, I wouldn't be a Mac user. I started off by playing around with a hackintosh in March 2008 and then in August 2008, I bought a six month old second hand Mac Pro for just £1000 which had barely been used and it all spiralled from there.
 

eyoungren

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Aug 31, 2011
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Unsure why it matters to you that we don't let it go…we're all off here in our own corner not bothering the M series Mac users.

It's not like this thread is in the main Mac forum. You yourself had to go out of your way to get in here and post. If the discussion about PowerPC Macs and things related in the PowerPC subforum bothers you then it's easily to just ignore a subforum you don't have any interest in - by not posting in it.
 
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Elusi

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Oct 26, 2023
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I did laugh though. Apple had spent years publicly shaming Intel and now they were using Intel chips. It taught me a good lesson when I started buying the iPhone. Apple only cares about Apple and they'll say whatever they think people want to hear to sell you something. Just like any company.
I don't feel this was such a case.

For all those years bashing Intel, they were sitting on an equivalent or better line of processors with PPC. Remember that Intel Netburst (the Pentium 4, Pentium D and its derivatives) was pretty awful. It made sense that Jobs could talk negatively about Intel, explain the gigahertz myth, point out IPC and the like.

Apple switched to Intel right when they had shifted over back to P6 and what eventually became Conroe. Remember the only Pentium 4 equipped Mac was the DTK. It's a reasonable assumption here that if it wasn't for the breakthrough with "Core", Apple probably wouldn't have switched to them.
 
I wondered in here to look at the first post date

imagine my surprise

View attachment 2345761

Welcome to the PowerPC Macs discussion sub-forum.

We welcome constructive participation here.

If one isn’t down for that and is only here for laying down the snark, lazy jibes, and copypasta memes, we welcome you to many other sub-forums this forum has on offer — and where such conduct is probably more tolerated. Cheers.
 

eyoungren

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Aug 31, 2011
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I don't feel this was such a case.

For all those years bashing Intel, they were sitting on an equivalent or better line of processors with PPC. Remember that Intel Netburst (the Pentium 4, Pentium D and its derivatives) was pretty awful. It made sense that Jobs could talk negatively about Intel, explain the gigahertz myth, point out IPC and the like.

Apple switched to Intel right when they had shifted over back to P6 and what eventually became Conroe. Remember the only Pentium 4 equipped Mac was the DTK. It's a reasonable assumption here that if it wasn't for the breakthrough with "Core", Apple probably wouldn't have switched to them.
But that's my point. Years of being on a better line of processors and bashing Intel - only to go and use the 'inferior' processor in the end.

I understand the why they went to Intel. But many average PC users of the time period did not. It looked hypocritical.
 
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Elusi

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Oct 26, 2023
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But that's my point. Years of being on a better line of processors and bashing Intel - only to go and use the 'inferior' processor in the end.
Okay..

Following this logic... The scenario below is made-up but illustrates my point.

Back in 2017 I would refuse to get a new Mac because they were throttlemonsters. I call them throttlemonsters and say they are bad. I say "Apple makes bad computers". I bash on Apple in front of all of my friends who care enough to listen.

2020 Apple readjusts their line and now have products that aren't throttlemonsters. I buy a Mac and say "Apple makes good computers now".

In your eyes I'd be a hypocrite, I guess?


EDIT: to be clear eyoungren EDITED their post with a more coherent response after I answered. I did not reduce the above quote.
 
I understand the why they went to Intel. But many average PC users of the time period did not. It looked hypocritical.

It looked hypocritical not only for the years of mocking earlier Intel processors, but also hypocritical to the Apple-IBM-Motorola alliance established upon which the entire turnaround for Apple was based.

This was a Jobs move, as he was not involved with the company when the alliance was struck, ca. 1992, but Jobs elevated the PowerPC architecture through plenty of aggressive advertising campaigns and the shartposting equivalent when making live keynotes. It was also under Jobs’s piloting when that balanced AIM alliance began to unravel — something largely held from end-consumer view before the June 2005 WWDC address.

As early as 2000, Jobs was pulling at that yarn string to unravel that alliance, with strains of that being seen in how IBM was pressed into making first-gen G4 processors to fill the shortfall of what Motorola alone couldn’t scale up to produce. The strain, of course, was IBM wasn’t a central partner in the development of the PPC7400 architecture, whereas both IBM and Motorola worked together closely on the PPC750 (G3) — created just before Apple bought NeXT. The PPC750, arguably, was the most robust, stable design of all the AIM-era PPC processing generations — so much so that they’re still being used in current space exploration missions launched some twenty years after Apple ditched the G3. This is because the best minds from two parties in the alliance worked closely together to produce a high-quality, stable, and low-power foundation lacking with subsequent generations.

Then, for Apple to turn on Motorola further by throwing the ball solely into IBM’s court for the PPC970, that strain reached a break point: Apple expected the AIM partner with limited experience producing laptop-appropriate CPUs on their own, to come up with one so without any involvement from the partner whose experience was extensive in mobile computing CPUs.

Apple had become the (intentional) weak link in the alliance.
 
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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
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Okay..

Following this logic... The scenario below is made-up but illustrates my point.

Back in 2017 I would refuse to get a new Mac because they were throttlemonsters. I call them throttlemonsters and say they are bad. I say "Apple makes bad computers". I bash on Apple in front of all of my friends who care enough to listen.

2020 Apple readjusts their line and now have products that aren't throttlemonsters. I buy a Mac and say "Apple makes good computers now".

In your eyes I'd be a hypocrite, I guess?
As much a hypocrite as I am for saying in the iPhone section that I was not going to buy another iPhone until Apple stopped using the camera bump as a design feature. That lasted until February 2015 when I upgraded from my iPhone 5 to a 6 Plus.

But to answer your question directly - no. Apple changed a condition about their product that you objected to. Once they did that you no longer had the objection. All this hypothetically of course.

But to me the spun scenario doesn't wash. Apple didn't change a condition. They spent years trashing a particular manufacturer, touting how superior another one was over that one. Then they went with the manufacturer they'd been trashing. Not because that manufacturer changed, but because Apple ran out of options.
 
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Elusi

macrumors regular
Oct 26, 2023
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The Pentium M was introduced in 2003 and could outpace the G4, yet Apple were still banging the Think Different drum...
I'm trying to frenetically google Jobs or Apple talking down on the Pentium M but can't find. Maybe you can help me? Genuine request. I'm all for facts.

As for not changing the entire line the second Intel has one good CPU that was only meant for small laptops, I think that speaks for itself that they needed more than that to switch. As well as building up software for a good transition.

As much a hypocrite as I am for saying in the iPhone section that I was not going to buy another iPhone until Apple stopped using the camera bump as a design feature. That lasted until February 2015 when I upgraded from my iPhone 5 to a 6 Plus.

But to answer your question directly - no. Apple changed a condition about their product that you objected to. Once they did that you no longer had the objection. All this hypothetically of course.

But to me the spun scenario doesn't wash. Apple didn't change a condition. They spent years trashing a particular manufacturer, touting how superior another one was over that one. Then they went with the manufacturer they'd been trashing. Not because that manufacturer changed, but because Apple ran out of options.
In my scenario, replace Apple with Intel, not Apple with Apple.

The manufacturer did change. That's just the fact of the matter. Conroe was miles better than Netburst. It made sense to not have Intel before, as well as explaining to your consumers as to why, and it made sense to switch to them when they were producing the best CPUs on the market.

As for how it looked in consumer's eyes. I would say that the prerequisite to all of this is that if you would be following Apple and the industry to the point that you were listening to what the CEO of a tech company thought about a processor architecture. And if you were doing that already (aka you were a huge nerd), understanding the context of why Apple used to "bash" on Intel wasn't unattainable.

I bet regular consumers never ever thought of the CPU wars.
 

Dronecatcher

macrumors 603
Jun 17, 2014
5,209
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I'm trying to frenetically google Jobs or Apple talking down on the Pentium M but can't find.
I’m pretty sure there weren’t any Pentium M bashing slideshows - how could there be as the M had a significant performance lead?

Apple had fuelled the megahertz myth for years with the RISC superiority angle with cherry picked benchmarks - this isn’t about the raw facts that Intel eventually pulled ahead with their chips but the audacity of Jobs to effortlessly switch sides as if no one would notice.

Of course, it was all about marketing bravado - Jobs was never going to explicitly acknowledge the 360 degree switcheroo.

But you’re right, the average Apple buyer wasn’t really aware of the architecture change.
 
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Member2010

macrumors regular
Jun 28, 2013
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What's always bothered me about this is that people say the word "Intel" in this context like it's an architecture. They didn't switch "from PowerPC to Intel." It would be more accurate to state either both brand names ("IBM to Intel") or both architectures ("PowerPC to x86").

I think that, from now on, anytime I hear this silliness, I'm going to respond with the opposite extreme to help point it out ("IBM to x86").
 

mmphosis

macrumors regular
Jan 3, 2017
219
298
What's always bothered me about this is that people say the word "Intel" in this context like it's an architecture. They didn't switch "from PowerPC to Intel." It would be more accurate to state either both brand names ("IBM to Intel") or both architectures ("PowerPC to x86").

I think that, from now on, anytime I hear this silliness, I'm going to respond with the opposite extreme to help point it out ("IBM to x86").
Motorola/Apple/IBM PowerPC to Intel/AMD/Zhaoxin/Fujitsu/Harris Corporation/IBM/Intersil/Matsushita/Mitsubishi/NEC/OKI/Renesas/Rochester Electronics/Siemens/Sharp/Sony/Zilog/SHS-Thomson/Texas Intstruments/Montage/Hygon/MCST/Space Electronics/Maxwell/Kombinat Mikroelektronik Erfurt/Eagle Memories with whatever Intel marketing brand name they were using at the time and I am still confused to this day by Intel's naming of their chips. On some of the other OSes it is confusingly named amd64. Is it an architecture, or is it something like a Transmeta chip doing 386 dynamic binary translation via System On a Chip with modified-Minix spyware in the firmware? My Intel Macs are all dead. My PowerPC G3 and G4 Macs are all still running. I am a little bit jealous of the G5 owners on this forum especially those with 16 GB RAM.

Here are some (unused) folders on my PowerPC Mac:

/usr/include/architecture/i386
/usr/include/i386
/usr/include/libkern/i386
/usr/include/mach/i386
/usr/include/mach-o/i386
/usr/include/pexpert/i386
/usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/i386
/usr/standalone/i386


Apple was testing and running Mac OS X on Intel way before the switch to Intel.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,367
11,510
On some of the other OSes it is confusingly named amd64.
Confusing or an "artifact" of history: AMD came up with the x86-64 extensions to x86 in 1999, whereas Intel had come up with the IA-64 architecture earlier. Intel licensed the x86-64 extensions from AMD and named theirs EM64T. Microsoft introduced the x64 term when they released NT 5.2 for both AMD's x86-64 and Intel's EM64T CPUs. (The early x86-64 betas were indeed AMD-only.)

Apple was testing and running Mac OS X on Intel way before the switch to Intel.
Yes, because it made sense to have a backup plan just in case. Rhapsody or Star Trek anyone?
 
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dpny

macrumors 6502
Jan 5, 2013
268
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Microsoft made IBM an offer they couldn't refuse and their energies shifted to designing a PPC CPU for the Xbox 360, seeing that Redmond decided to switch from Intel's x86 to PPC for its second generation console. ;)
I don't think it had much to do with that. I think the biggest issue was simply that IBM would never make back the money it would take to design a new PPC chip. In the early to mid-2000s Apple was selling about 3-4 million Macs a year. That's not enough sales volume to generate the money IBM would've needed to recoup their costs, as getting G5 performance into a 25 watt laptop chip would've been a huge undertaking.

The other issue is larger: by the mid-2000s IBM was clearly looking to leave the consumer PC space except as a fab partner for some very specific projects would could bring in lots of revenue. They had stopped making any desktop machines, and in 2005 they sold Thinkpad to Lenovo. IBM was pretty clearly going back to their roots--business sales--and Apple's consumer focus didn't interest them.
 
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dpny

macrumors 6502
Jan 5, 2013
268
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As a former graphic artist (first career) and also as a scholar (after first career), the ability to unlock PDFs from, respectively, clients and from the occasional time I’d find a citation reference I couldn’t access from within the university’s subscriptions (to most, but not all of the journal distributors), the means to open and annotate for both, respectively, client assets and for my own research, was essential, pivotal for getting the job done.

I know it may seem fatuous to you, dpny, but this was the original purpose, design, and function of the PDF, or portable document format: basically, it was the invention of “digital paper”, arising from Adobe’s postscript encoding for laser printers, and it delivered on the portability to afford the user that portability. This came in especially handy when working with postscript-encoded vectors embedded within a PDF.
I've been in print production for 30 years. In the mid-90s I was hand editing Postscript to fix rendering errors on Postscript 1 RIPs. I know all about Postscript, PDF in all it's different versions, and the ins and outs of Adobe's rendering engine.

I know what I'm talking about just a little.
 
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