HomePod Does it Make Sense now to go for the Bigger Homepod vs Homepod Mini ?

[MayaTlab]

Why? U1 chip really means nothing right now. Yeah it has some good possibilities but nothing I can think of that would stop anyone from buying the HomePod.

I'm not sure of it, but perhaps Ultra Wideband technology, which is what the U1 chip enables, could be used for wireless audio.

Airplay's sound quality is great, but as it's based on Wifi it inherently is power-hungry and comes with a lot of lag, making it difficult to implement system-wide for event-based sounds and require video content to be synced with lag. Bluetooth comes with data rate limitations.

Possibly UWB could enable high data rates with minimal lag and low power consumption, basically the Goldilocks of wireless audio. This would then possibly make it easy-peasy for Apple to enable things like system-wide stereo pairing with U1 enabled Macs for example.

This is just me speculating here, on the hypothetical basis that UWB can be used for wireless audio.

 

[MiamiC70]

Just bought 2 original HomePods and I returned my launch day one so, I think so.

 

[AbSoluTc]

Just bought 2 original HomePods and I returned my launch day one so, I think so.

Why?

 

[MiamiC70]

Why?

Anticipation of Atmos support on ATV4K

 

[AbSoluTc]

Anticipation of Atmos support on ATV4K

But why did you return one and buy two? Why not just buy one more?

 

[MiamiC70]

But why did you return one and buy two? Why not just buy one more?

Because, I bought it on launch day 2+ years ago and it SUCKED and was $150 more than I paid for it now.
Now 2 years later it sucks much, much less and if Apple delivers on promises they made at last event it will fill the niche it should have 2 years ago.

 

[AbSoluTc]

Because, I bought it on launch day 2+ years ago and it SUCKED and was $150 more than I paid for it now.
Now 2 years later it sucks much, much less and if Apple delivers on promises they made at last event it will fill the niche it should have 2 years ago.

Oh so you returned it after you bought it 2 years ago. Didn’t catch that. Read like you just returned it.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I think apart from the U1 chip the only advantage the mini has over the OG HomePod is the Price. For me the OG HomePod is still better because it sounds better.

I think the mini is good for putting in other rooms but now that Apple are supporting theatre mode for the Apple TV with the OG HomePod it really makes sense to buy more OG homepods.

 

[nutmac]

Since HomePod mini isn't out yet, not even to reviewers (well, maybe some has them but under review embargo), we can only speculate. But I think this much can be extracted:

• HomePod probably sounds a lot better than HomePod mini, at least in larger room with higher volume. Specifically, I expect substantially better bass and soundstage. HomePod mini is probably more ideal for bedrooms.
• If you are intending to use a pair of HomePods or HomePod minis with Apple TV 4K, HomePod is the way to go. Spatial awareness and home theater with Apple TV 4K (Dolby Atmos and Dolby Digital virtualized processing similar to AirPods Pro) are exclusive to larger HomePod.
• HomePod is frequently discounted to $199 and I expect to see that pricing again around Thanksgiving Black Friday (at least in the US). While the discount still means twice that of HomePod mini, much more reasonable.
• HomePod mini has U1 ultra wideband, which will allow personalized listening suggestions and tactile handoff experience. No big deals but maybe it will also open up other benefits like location-aware HomeKit operations? For instance, if you have HomePod minis in every rooms, perhaps it will detect which room you are in and respond to "Hey Siri, turn on the light" without requiring you to specify the room OR even cooler, walk around the house and it will turn on the lights automatically (with some intelligence for bedtime)? And Find My may respond with "Your phone is near master bedroom" instead of "Your phone is nearby".
• Support for Thread smart home networking standard means absolutely nothing today. But CHIP (Connected Home over IP) can jumpstart its adoption. Since my house is blanked with Eero (which has Thread), I don't need HomePod to provide Thread. But it can be nice to have... eventually.

To me personally, none of the HomePod mini benefits ultimately matter to me, at least not enough to offset original HomePod's superior sound quality and home theater capability. However, HomePod mini has one compelling benefit: it's cheap. For single smart speaker use, such as the bedroom or kitchen, it should be more than capable. And far less important but a factor nevertheless -- it's awfully cute.

I currently have a pair of HomePods. I intend to use them with one of the TVs not served by the soundbar. I will probably get one HomePod mini to be a guinea pig for one of the bedrooms. If it works out, I intend to get one for every bedrooms and kitchen.

 

[Neodym]

Just bought 2 original HomePods and I returned my launch day one so, I think so.

Did you return your 2-year-old device in the package of one of the new ones, pretending to return one of the new ones you bought?

 

[Neodym]

Computational audio is a compensation for the lack of superior audio hardware found in the full size HomePod. Speculating here but I can’t see the audio quality coming remotely close to what the full size HomePod offers.

The question is whether an average / untrained ear can really recognize the difference. When mp3 was introduced, quite some people said that it could never match uncompressed audio. And while that may be true from a technical point of view and perhaps also recognizable for highly skilled / trained ears, the majority of people is more than fine with compressed audio nowadays.

One could argue that people only got used to poor audio quality due to poor audio hardware and compressed sources, but I do see a chance that computed audio may create the illusion to the average listener that the speaker sounds far better than it should, considering its size.

After all, that’s what people said about the HomePod as well: Far too small for the audio it creates, can’t compete with full-size HiFi boxes and amps. And yet here we are, claiming that the HomePod generates unmatchable audio due to its quality components, where HiFi enthusiasts may buy just a cable for their truly high-end music system for the price of a full HomePod.

Technology advances continuously and I see no reason why the mini could not get close to its older cousin in terms of perceived audio quality.

 

[Itinj24]

The question is whether an average / untrained ear can really recognize the difference. When mp3 was introduced, quite some people said that it could never match uncompressed audio. And while that may be true from a technical point of view and perhaps also recognizable for highly skilled / trained ears, the majority of people is more than fine with compressed audio nowadays.

One could argue that people only got used to poor audio quality due to poor audio hardware and compressed sources, but I do see a chance that computed audio may create the illusion to the average listener that the speaker sounds far better than it should, considering its size.

After all, that’s what people said about the HomePod as well: Far too small for the audio it creates, can’t compete with full-size HiFi boxes and amps. And yet here we are, claiming that the HomePod generates unmatchable audio due to its quality components, where HiFi enthusiasts may buy just a cable for their truly high-end music system for the price of a full HomePod.

Technology advances continuously and I see no reason why the mini could not get close to its older cousin in terms of perceived audio quality.

I’m not an audiophile by any means and I get what you’re saying, however I, for one, would be extremely shocked if Apple would sell a product for $200 bucks cheaper that’s just as good, half the size and a fraction of the weight. May as well just kill the full sized HomePod right now. Whether it’s possible or not for the audio quality in the Mini to be as good as the full size using software sorcery, I don’t even think Apple would unleash that power. They’d be cannibalizing sales from a more expensive product that’s already not moving many units. From a business standpoint, there should be a discernible difference between the two. The price difference alone is what makes me think the Mini will be inferior in terms of sound. Once again, speculating here but we shall see in a few short weeks.

 

[MayaTlab]

The question is whether an average / untrained ear can really recognize the difference. When mp3 was introduced,

lossy formats with a good enough compression algorithm and a high decent bitrate can send distortion to objectively inaudible levels, hence why people have repeatedly failed to A/B 320 kbps AAC encoded by Apple's latest encoders from lossless formats in blind tests.

In regards to the HomePod Mini vs. HomePod, at the very least it's unlikely that the bass extension will be as low with the Mini as with the regular Homepod, and while psychoacoustics have been used for ages to compensate for some speakers' limited extension (ex : https://www.researchgate.net/public...proved_transient_and_steady-state_performance), I don't think that these psychoacoustics tricks pass blind tests against speakers with a naturally lower extension.
And that's just talking about bass extension.

That being said given how I'm constantly amazed at what Apple's acoustics team does under the constraints given to them, I have no doubt that the Mini will spank most comparably sized speakers.

 

[Neodym]

I’m not an audiophile by any means and I get what you’re saying, however I, for one, would be extremely shocked if Apple would sell a product for $200 bucks cheaper that’s just as good, half the size and a fraction of the weight. May as well just kill the full sized HomePod right now.

Compared to the market, the HomePod mini is way more competitive (price wise) than the HomePod. So it may indeed make business sense for Apple to focus on the smaller version and axe the big one, once supplies have dried up.

Whether it’s possible or not for the audio quality in the Mini to be as good as the full size using software sorcery, I don’t even think Apple would unleash that power. They’d be cannibalizing sales from a more expensive product that’s already not moving many units. From a business standpoint, there should be a discernible difference between the two. The price difference alone is what makes me think the Mini will be inferior in terms of sound. Once again, speculating here but we shall see in a few short weeks.

With the HomePod, Apple has demonstrated an amazing long time of good will for a product not meeting their expectations.

The “smart speaker” market did not accept the price point (and also Siri is still lacking) and the audiophile folks did not like the audio (I would subscribe to the notion that it has a bit much bass) and rather went for a full-fledged HiFi rig or took the Echo Studio instead. And many people disliked the lock in to AppleMusic and lack of ports.

But Apple was between a rock and a hard place: Leaving the Smart speaker market to the competition would not have been a wise move. So the HomePod had to stay (and with Apple-typical stubbornness they could not lower the price).

With the HomePod mini, Apple has a better suited product available for the mass market. So now is the first time they could actually call it a day and cancel the first gen HomePod altogether. Or they keep it available as competitor to higher quality smart speakers like the Echo Studio. After all, they now have nearly something like a lineup in the Smart speaker world.

Really looking forward to the reviews and planning to replace the Echo Dot’s in my house.

 

[Itinj24]

Compared to the market, the HomePod mini is way more competitive (price wise) than the HomePod. So it may indeed make business sense for Apple to focus on the smaller version and axe the big one, once supplies have dried up.


With the HomePod, Apple has demonstrated an amazing long time of good will for a product not meeting their expectations.

The “smart speaker” market did not accept the price point (and also Siri is still lacking) and the audiophile folks did not like the audio (I would subscribe to the notion that it has a bit much bass) and rather went for a full-fledged HiFi rig or took the Echo Studio instead. And many people disliked the lock in to AppleMusic and lack of ports.

But Apple was between a rock and a hard place: Leaving the Smart speaker market to the competition would not have been a wise move. So the HomePod had to stay (and with Apple-typical stubbornness they could not lower the price).

With the HomePod mini, Apple has a better suited product available for the mass market. So now is the first time they could actually call it a day and cancel the first gen HomePod altogether. Or they keep it available as competitor to higher quality smart speakers like the Echo Studio. After all, they now have nearly something like a lineup in the Smart speaker world.

Really looking forward to the reviews and planning to replace the Echo Dot’s in my house.

Don’t forget though that these other smart speaker manufacturers also have a bigger more powerful speaker alongside their Mini counterparts. Not sure of the sales figures on those but Google is still selling the Home Max and they’d be the first to axe a product that isn’t doing well. There are different ways to look at this. I’m playing devils advocate here but the the Mini may also drive up sales on the full size HomePod. For arguments sake, let’s say the Mini is a weaker audio speaker, but the other features, like intercom are wow’ing people who don’t own a HomePod. Apple may have just given people a reason to dabble in something a little better that also works with the ecosystem. People who otherwise had no interest in the HomePod before but got a little taste of it with the Mini.

 

[Watom]

Don’t forget though that these other smart speaker manufacturers also have a bigger more powerful speaker alongside their Mini counterparts. Not sure of the sales figures on those but Google is still selling the Home Max and they’d be the first to axe a product that isn’t doing well. There are different ways to look at this. I’m playing devils advocate here but the the Mini may also drive up sales on the full size HomePod. For arguments sake, let’s say the Mini is a weaker audio speaker, but the other features, like intercom are wow’ing people who don’t own a HomePod. Apple may have just given people a reason to dabble in something a little better that also works with the ecosystem. People who otherwise had no interest in the HomePod before but got a little taste of it with the Mini.

I agree - as the introduction of the Homepod mini has made me reconsider buying the original Homepod and making the switch from a Sonos set up to an Apple set up. I've always hesitated investing in the original Homepods as Apple didn't seem to be fully committed to smart speakers, and I didn't want to invest in tech which got ditched a few years later. But I can see Apple keeping both the original Homepod and the Homepod mini as part of a mixed offering to households, where you have a smaller speaker in a bedroom, but might be tempted to get one or more larger speakers for a living room or large kitchen. I can even see them creating a soundbar at some point to create a full immersive audio experience for their 4K TVs.

 

[Itinj24]

I agree - as the introduction of the Homepod mini has made me reconsider buying the original Homepod and making the switch from a Sonos set up to an Apple set up. I've always hesitated investing in the original Homepods as Apple didn't seem to be fully committed to smart speakers, and I didn't want to invest in tech which got ditched a few years later. But I can see Apple keeping both the original Homepod and the Homepod mini as part of a mixed offering to households, where you have a smaller speaker in a bedroom, but might be tempted to get one or more larger speakers for a living room or large kitchen. I can even see them creating a soundbar at some point to create a full immersive audio experience for their 4K TVs.

There’s also a new rumor now from a reputable source (Mark Gurman at Bloomberg?) saying that Apple is considering a mid range HomePod now too. Something in between the HomePod and the Mini.

Would love an Apple Soundbar with Siri support!

 

[Watom]

There’s also a new rumor now from a reputable source (Mark Gurman at Bloomberg?) saying that Apple is considering a mid range HomePod now too. Something in between the HomePod and the Mini.

Would love an Apple Soundbar with Siri support!

That’s really exciting news! Makes a lot of sense because it would round out the ‘home audio’ selection nicely. They’ve clearly got the technology and have invested in the manufacturing facilities, so a mid range HomePod, a bit more like the Play One, might just convince enough people to switch to Airplay for both their smart home set up and their audio set up.

It would also be a good marketing ploy, because whilst I can’t see many people buying a mini HomePod, then making the leap to the original HomePod (which is 3 times the price) they might just convince people to make the jump to a mid range HomePod. It could also work as a centre speaker, with 4 minis making a decent surround system.

I’d love it off they produced an Airplay bridge, focussed on audio, like an Apple TV without the TV(!) so you could connect AirPlay to any analogue hifi set up. For the time being I’m thinking of switching my Sonos amp for my current Apple 4 TV to run my hifi, and then getting an Apple 5 TV (for actual TV)

 

[Neodym]

I’d love it off they produced an Airplay bridge, focussed on audio, like an Apple TV without the TV(!) so you could connect AirPlay to any analogue hifi set up.

Easy. Just need to revive the old Airport Express line of devices.

 

[Phil77354]

I've had four HomePods since they were first released. Sound quality is absolutely fantastic and I haven't regretted the purchase (much) even with the relatively high price.

May opinion is this - if you simply want a smart speaker that is part of the Apple product family, and aren't particularly interested in spending more to get the sound quality of the bigger HomePod, then get the smaller speaker. Otherwise, wait until the HomePod goes on sale again and get it.

I plan to purchase at least one of the new HomePod Mini speakers as soon as they come out, to see how it performs.

 

[Watom]

@Phil77354 Stupid question, but can the Homepod connect to 5G WiFi? I ask because the Sonos speakers can only connect to 2G, and my new router annoyingly forces me to create two separate channels, one for 2G and one for 5G. The 5G obviously has the better download speed, so I'm connected to that most often, but then when I want to connect to a Sonos device I have to manually change my Wifi connection, which, whilst a small step in itself, gets frustrating over time!

 

[Phil77354]

I have 4 HomePods in my home, all of them are connected to my WiFi at 5GHz (I assume that is what you mean). My router has both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz.

If you're referring to 5G as is now becoming available on cellular networks, then I think you're mixing up two different things because obviously the HomePod is not connecting to cellular, it is connecting only to WiFi.

My home WiFi is Google WiFi and is a couple of years old. It does not, as far as I know, give me the ability to decide which band will be used for connecting to any particular device, that is all done by the WiFi automatically.

 

[Watom]

Thanks - that answers my question. Yes, I meant whether it connected to the WiFi at 5GHz, not 2.4GHz - although I appreciate that the advent of cellular 5G is now likely to start confusing such issues.

My previous router (with Virgin) would automatically switch between 5GHz and 2.4GHz depending on what was connecting to it and how good the signal was. This was helpful because a number of my 'not so smart' home devices will only connect via the 2.4GHz signal and I could simply connect everything to the same WiFi connection. But my new 'advanced' router separates the signals, meaning that I have to switch between a faster connection speed on 5GHz, and being able to access my smart devices (Phillips Hue is the same as Sonos in this respect). I just wanted to check that the Apple Homepods could connect to the 5GHz signal before I decide to switch over

 

[AL2TEACH]

Apple’s HomePod will soon support Dolby Atmos with the Apple TV 4K

But HomePod mini buyers will be out of luck.

www.theverge.com

was really hoping Apple would continue to update the software stuff for the HomePod. Glad I have them and for me, I would never even consider getting the mini HomePod.