Does the Surface Book have any one second thinking the iPad Pro?

[jmgregory1]

I have to admit, the Surface Book with its detachable hi res large screen is certainly going to make people think hard about it when pitched against the iPad Pro, especially if they aren't already part of the Apple ecosystem.

I had been planning to buy the iPad Pro myself, along with a Pencil, and replace my Lenovo Yoga 13 sometime later, but I'm seriously going to have to reconsider now. It's not that I'd be abandoning Apple (I've made far too big an investment in my kit to do that) but that the Surface Book would cover a lot of bases that would have otherwise required me to buy two separate products.

Well played, Microsoft. Very well played.

The problem with the SP Book is that once you pull the screen off the keyboard, you loose the power of the GPU. So it's a compromise - either needing to be a laptop, with decent specs, or a tablet with ok specs. It is not going to be both. And drawing on a laptop screen is about as challenging of a thing to do as you can get, unless you have herculean strength to hold you hand up in the air AND maintain fine motor skills necessary to draw on-screen.

I think Apple recognized that the iPad Pro was going to become a Wacom competitor, more than a touch-screen laptop sort of thing. Just seeing how they market it tells me Apple recognizes the difficulty in using a touch screen laptop, while Microsoft pretends that it's no issue (while mostly showing people how they use their devices with keyboards connected...

 

[rowspaxe]

Curious to see the pencil vs the new surface pen in real world usage:
http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/6/9461329/microsoft-surface-pro-4-surface-pen

Funny how the pen went from gimmick to competitive flash point in 3 years. I hope both the pencil and ms pen prove to be worthy--may the best stylus win

 

[rowspaxe]

The problem with the SP Book is that once you pull the screen off the keyboard, you loose the power of the GPU. So it's a compromise - either needing to be a laptop, with decent specs, or a tablet with ok specs. It is not going to be both. And drawing on a laptop screen is about as challenging of a thing to do as you can get, unless you have herculean strength to hold you hand up in the air AND maintain fine motor skills necessary to draw on-screen.

Wait--you have to hold in one hand the tablet you are drawing on? Not really. Thats why they have the kickstand in the surface pro. It looks like the reversed surface book screen sets at 10 degrees or so; i use a stand generally

 

[Beavix]

The problem with the SP Book is that once you pull the screen off the keyboard, you loose the power of the GPU. So it's a compromise - either needing to be a laptop, with decent specs, or a tablet with ok specs. It is not going to be both.

But it'll still be a better tablet than the iPad, and a better laptop than the MacBook Pro.

 

[Kendo]

As a Surface Pro 3 owner I will say this.....The Surface makes for an 'ok' laptop, and a terrible tablet. For those that think you can use the Surface to replace your iPad, I think you might be disappointed. There are almost no good tablet apps available. And before you say "what about all of the regular Windows apps you can run?"; most don't work well in tablet mode.

You will find you barely use it as a tablet. In that case it becomes a mediocre laptop.

Great insight. Will definitely keep this in mind when I ultimately purchase either a Surface Book or a Skylake MacBook Pro.

 

[nickyD410]

The SP4 is defiantly intriguing but its more of a laptop replacement in my situation as a designer using photoshop and solidworks. I can do all that stuff already with my macbook pro and want the ipad pro more as a companion to my macbook, to use a sketchbook and do some quick photoshop like renderings.

 

[mashinhead]

It is very nice looking I'll give it that. I would totally get one, if it didn't run Windows!

 

[sracer]

As a Surface Pro 3 owner I will say this.....The Surface makes for an 'ok' laptop, and a terrible tablet. For those that think you can use the Surface to replace your iPad, I think you might be disappointed. There are almost no good tablet apps available. And before you say "what about all of the regular Windows apps you can run?"; most don't work well in tablet mode.

You will find you barely use it as a tablet. In that case it becomes a mediocre laptop.

I concur with your observations with the exception of the use of the word "mediocre" to describe the SP3 as a notebook. But I guess it depends upon how one uses it. SP3 in tablet mode? No argument here. Actually, you were being generous.

 

[jmgregory1]

Wait--you have to hold in one hand the tablet you are drawing on? Not really. Thats why they have the kickstand in the surface pro. It looks like the reversed surface book screen sets at 10 degrees or so; i use a stand generally

Drawing is best done with the surface you are drawing on, flat on the desk - or at a slight angle, much like drafting tables provide. Drawing on a screen that is set at an angle, like that of a laptop, is impossible to do with any precision. If you're using the "kickstand" or another cover / case to hold the screen at an angle, it has to be strong enough to support the weight your wrist and pen strokes will put on it.

And to my point about the GPU? If you pull the screen off, you loose the GPU power, which will then relegate your SP to that of a not great tablet...or you run it flat with the keyboard still attached, which just seems ridiculous. So where does the keyboard go - between your arms or you set the thing upside down and have the keyboard out in front of you.

 

[Supermallet]

The SP line has always felt like jack of all trades, master of none. I know a lot of people are frustrated at the limitations in iOS, but I think Apple made a very deliberate decision not to put full OS X on the iPad Pro and focus it as the ultimate iPad for creatives. I think they want to push developers to develop actual tablet apps for a tablet that doesn't have to be switched into laptop mode to really get all the performance.

And as many people here have said, the new hardware looks fantastic, and it's nice to see Microsoft really trying and succeeding at having their own vision, but all of these devices still run Windows and every time I use Windows I can't wait to get back to OS X or even iOS.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Drawing is best done with the surface you are drawing on, flat on the desk - or at a slight angle, much like drafting tables provide. Drawing on a screen that is set at an angle, like that of a laptop, is impossible to do with any precision. If you're using the "kickstand" or another cover / case to hold the screen at an angle, it has to be strong enough to support the weight your wrist and pen strokes will put on it.

And to my point about the GPU? If you pull the screen off, you loose the GPU power, which will then relegate your SP to that of a not great tablet...or you run it flat with the keyboard still attached, which just seems ridiculous. So where does the keyboard go - between your arms or you set the thing upside down and have the keyboard out in front of you.

Attach the keyboard to the back?

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/first-look-at-the-microsoft-surface-book/#slide=3652314

 

[sracer]

The SP line has always felt like jack of all trades, master of none. I know a lot of people are frustrated at the limitations in iOS, but I think Apple made a very deliberate decision not to put full OS X on the iPad Pro and focus it as the ultimate iPad for creatives. I think they want to push developers to develop actual tablet apps for a tablet that doesn't have to be switched into laptop mode to really get all the performance.

Yep, it's easy to simply say, "throw OSX in the iPad" as a way to address the lack of pro-ness of the iPad. There are many things that Apple could've done to move the ball further down the court without getting OSX into the picture. IMO, they took a baby step.

And as many people here have said, the new hardware looks fantastic, and it's nice to see Microsoft really trying and succeeding at having their own vision, but all of these devices still run Windows and every time I use Windows I can't wait to get back to OS X or even iOS.

I own a Surface 2 and Acer Aspire Switch 11... they make fine netbooks/notebooks, but the tablet experience is still pretty weak.

 

[fob]

Never mind keeping them on their toes. Microsoft just cut Apples feet off. The only issue I have is that they run Windows.

It'll be interesting to see Apples next move.

The question now remains can you run hackintosh on it.

 

[Supermallet]

Yep, it's easy to simply say, "throw OSX in the iPad" as a way to address the lack of pro-ness of the iPad. There are many things that Apple could've done to move the ball further down the court without getting OSX into the picture. IMO, they took a baby step.

Time will tell if that baby steps helps Apple or hurts them, but I understand the logic. Right now, the iPad Pro will make total sense to anyone who's ever used an iOS device. The eventual differentiation that will come for the Pro line will be more gradual and in theory more intuitive. We'll see.

 

[JustMichal]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9693/microsoft-announces-the-surface-pro-4-from-900

128GB SSD in 900$ sku of SP4 makes iPad pro pricing even more ridiculous.

 

[joeblow7777]

It is very nice looking I'll give it that. I would totally get one, if it didn't run Windows!

That's pretty much how I feel about Macs.

 

[RickTaylor]

For me, the surface book isn't a competitor to the iPad pro (something I wasn't going to get anyway) as much as it is to the Macbook Air. It's something I could use primarily as a laptop, with additional functionality. I'd love to be able to write an exam in Latex on it, then use the pen to add diagrams and graphs to it.

As for Microsoft vs Apple, they're two different companies pursuing two different strategies which is great; I don't see one as "destroying" the other. I still love my iPad mini and won't be getting rid of it anytime soon. I'm glad it doesn't try to run a desktop operating system, and focuses on being stream lined and easy to use.

 

[Kendo]

It never occurred to me to ever buy an iPad Pro. If you want a productivity machine, buy a MacBook which is the best laptop money can buy. If you want a tablet (for consumption), buy an iPad Air 2 which is the best tablet money can buy.

The Surface Book is an amazing product, but I'd rather have a separate laptop and tablet that is a 10/10 laptop and a 10/10 tablet, rather than a single laptop/tablet hybrid that can function as an 8.5 as a laptop and an 8.5 as a tablet.

Mad props to MS for even getting an 8.5/10 into a hybrid. Most hybrids fail miserably at each function

 

[MikhailT]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9693/microsoft-announces-the-surface-pro-4-from-900

128GB SSD in 900$ sku of SP4 makes iPad pro pricing even more ridiculous.

It's 950$ for the iPad Pro with 128GB and we don't even know the full story yet of how fast the new SSD controller is in iPad Pro. The iPhone 6S lineup is also using something of a SSD controller with fast NANDs.

$50 more is not that ridiculous unless you're talking about the whole device and not just the SSD, in that case, that's true considering how much more you can do with SP depending on your needs.

Also, keep in mind the base SP4 is using Core m3, 4GB and 128GB. The base model is probably on par with iPad Pro in terms of power but we have to wait a few months to compare them. A9X is a beast on its own and iPad Pro will use 4GB as well.

 

[kerbero9]

It's 950$ for the iPad Pro with 128GB and we don't even know the full story yet of how fast the new SSD controller is in iPad Pro. The iPhone 6S lineup is also using something of a SSD controller with fast NANDs.

$50 more is not that ridiculous unless you're talking about the whole device and not just the SSD, in that case, that's true considering how much more you can do with SP depending on your needs.

Also, keep in mind the base SP4 is using Core m3, 4GB and 128GB. The base model is probably on par with iPad Pro in terms of power but we have to wait a few months to compare them. A9X is a beast on its own and iPad Pro will use 4GB as well.

It's actually $150 cheaper if you consider that even the base model of the SP4 comes with the Surface Pen and you would need to buy the $99 Apple Pencil to get the same functionality on the iPad Pro.

 

[ssls6]

SP4 is missing LTE so not an option for me. The SB looks pretty nice for a Windows Notebook but I'll stick with MacBooks for that. Life is full of compromise.

 

[MikhailT]

It's actually $150 cheaper if you consider that even the base model of the SP4 comes with the Surface Pen and you would need to buy the $99 Apple Pencil to get the same functionality on the iPad Pro.

Agreed, once you start piling up on the accessories or even bumping up the spec, Surface Pro will be more powerful and you get more bang for the bucks, no one is disagreeing on that. However, purely saying that SSD pricing is ridiculous in iPad Pro because Surface Pro 4 has it as well for 50$ cheaper, well, it doesn't really matter that much for 50$.

I would say that the fact it has a pen included is what makes the pricing of iPad Pro ridiculous. Apple should include the Pencil by default for the same price.

 

[Mivo]

lol @ horrendous problems with privacy. everything can be disabled before install by simply selecting custom install.

You can also just disconnect it from the internet.

Windows 10 removes a lot of control from the user, and yes, there are plenty of privacy concerns with it. From that view, it's the worst Windows version so far.

The Surface Book does look good, and it is essentially (well, in principle anyway) what I would have liked the MacBook Air or iPad Pro to be. But I'm not sure it's good enough for me to deal with Windows 10 and the subscription model that Microsoft is headed to. The hardware is impressive, though, based on what we know so far (most of which is marketing blurb). The $1499 tag is also just for the entry model.

Perhaps this will be a wake up call for Apple.

 

[jazz1]

Ouch! But I still can't do Windows.

 

[rowspaxe]

Drawing is best done with the surface you are drawing on, flat on the desk - or at a slight angle, much like drafting tables provide. Drawing on a screen that is set at an angle, like that of a laptop, is impossible to do with any precision. If you're using the "kickstand" or another cover / case to hold the screen at an angle, it has to be strong enough to support the weight your wrist and pen strokes will put on it.

Hard to follow your thinking--your previous post clearly envisions users holding a tablet in one hand and drawing with the other--and how problematic this is with a large tablet like the sbook