Don’t use TouchID or FaceID if you’re concerned about privacy

[hyperbolic]

A landmark court battle recently found that State & Federal government law enforcement agencies are allowed to compel (read that as “force”) citizens to unlock their phone if TouchID or FaceID is enabled, but they are not allowed to do so if the user unlocks the phone with a passcode that must be typed in.

The ruling generally had to do with the fact that neither TouchID nor FaceID require the user to offer information the government isn’t already entitled to under standard & reasonable search & seizure laws that don’t require a warrant. Meaning, a person can’t claim that their rights are being violated by the “use” of their face, which is always exposed, and neither their fingerprint(s), which are fair game in all cases of law.

However, the court did find that it is unlawful to force a citizen to manually type in a phone’s passcode because that requires intimate knowledge of the person who owns the phone that is protected against unreasonable search & seizure. In fact, neither a warrant nor any court order can be used to compel (force) a citizen to unlock their phone if it’s protected by only a passcode (and not additionally Touch/Face ID).

Just some food for thought if you are at all concerned about privacy and constitutional protections, such as the ones the EFF and other electronic privacy focus organizations advocate.

 

[MacManiac76]

Personally I couldn’t care less. If I am ever in a situation where I would need to give any information that is on my phone using such methods, I think I would have more pressing issues to be concerned about.

 

[Bacong]

Personally I couldn’t care less. If I am ever in a situation where I would need to give any information that is on my phone using such methods, I think I would have more pressing issues to be concerned about.

what if you're mistakenly in this situation?

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Enable press and hold volume power button at the same time to show the call 911/shutdown sliders, problem solved.

 

[redbeard331]

Personally I couldn’t care less. If I am ever in a situation where I would need to give any information that is on my phone using such methods, I think I would have more pressing issues to be concerned about.

What if you’re entering the country from a trip and get taken into custody by jackbooted CBP agents? Think it can’t happen to you? I know of someone who had an encounter with them who did absolutely nothing wrong and their actions were downright evil and draconian. Last thing you’d want is those freaks to now have everything that’s on your phone in their possession.

 

[hyperbolic]

Enable press and hold volume power button at the same time to show the call 911/shutdown sliders, problem solved.

Not if they grab your phone w/FaceID enabled and point it at your face.

 

[hyperbolic]

Personally I couldn’t care less. If I am ever in a situation where I would need to give any information that is on my phone using such methods, I think I would have more pressing issues to be concerned about.

You’re not a fan of the Bill of Rights, I see, but it’s no problem, some people aren’t.

 

[ManuCH]

Not if they grab your phone w/FaceID enabled and point it at your face.

Honestly, if you put yourself in a situation that they "grab your phone and point it at your face" you seriously have done something wrong and you know it. In that case, just don't use FaceID.

If people are worried about issues like CBP when coming back from a country the US doesn't like, just hold the volume and power buttons at the same time as was suggested, and you're good.

 

[MegaBlue]

Up + Down the holding the side/lock button brings up the power menu. Exit the power menu, and now Touch ID and Face ID are disabled until you enter your password again.

Problem solved.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Not if they grab your phone w/FaceID enabled and point it at your face.

Bug is right. Once the action is taken, Face ID / Touch ID don't work and the passcode has to be entered.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Personally I couldn’t care less. If I am ever in a situation where I would need to give any information that is on my phone using such methods, I think I would have more pressing issues to be concerned about.

Good for you. Then this thread isn't for you. You can move along now, nothing to see here.

Just smile nicely, pretend you're beyond happy to cooperate, reach into your pocket for your phone, then hold the power button pressed while you're taking it out of the pocket. No more TouchId until you type the PIN again. Problem solved.
I believe with FaceId you need to hold two buttons pressed, but it's been a while since I had a phone with FaceId, so I'm not sure anymore.
Even if I had nothing to hide, I would still not unlock my phone for them. If they want my PIN, then let them get a court order first. Let them work for it and earn their paychecks. I don't have to make their job easier, especially when they're hostile towards me.

 

[sgtaylor5]

If you’re really concerned about privacy, use a flip phone.

 

[msackey]

Not if they grab your phone w/FaceID enabled and point it at your face.

There's a meme somewhere in which a young adult child of an older woman is trying to get his mom's face to unlock her phone. Each time the adult child points the phone at his mom's face, the mom scrunches up her face and thus not allowing the unlock to occur. One could try that and do it a few times, the iPhone will require passcode to unlock the phone.

 

[Vlad Soare]

If you’re really concerned about privacy, use a flip phone.

Sure, but that would deprive you of the convenience of a modern phone. Ideally you should be able to retain privacy while not giving up other features you may like.

There's a meme somewhere in which a young adult child of an older woman is trying to get his mom's face to unlock her phone. Each time the adult child points the phone at his mom's face, the mom scrunches up her face and thus not allowing the unlock to occur. One could try that and do it a few times, the iPhone will require passcode to unlock the phone.

That should work. Or closing your eyes, too, if you have the attention feature turned on.
With TouchId you could also pretend to try unlocking it for them, but use a finger that isn't registered. A few failed attempts will disable TouchId.

 

[msackey]

That should work. Or closing your eyes, too, if you have the attention feature turned on.
With TouchId you could also pretend to try unlocking it for them, but use a finger that isn't registered. A few failed attempts will disable TouchId.

I love it! I just tested this and apparently the Attention Feature only requires 1 eye to be open. So I would suggest that instead of fully closing eyes (that would mean you can't see what's going on), just close your eyes to a small slit.

 

[Sorinut]

Can you please link to the court case, or at least the case name/number. I follow such issues pretty closely and there is no mention of said court case anywhere. It sounds like it as a state or local case, which doesn't apply outside the jurisdiction of the court.

There was a case that matches your description in 2019, however other courts have found that it violates the 4th amendment. The issue has never come before the supreme court.

 

[Wizec]

You can also just click the power button 5 times. Or turn your phone off.

 

[hyperbolic]

Honestly, if you put yourself in a situation that they "grab your phone and point it at your face" you seriously have done something wrong and you know it.

NOT! I’m not sure where you live, but in the United States people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and they are inherently protected against illegal search & seizure.

The mere fact that people are found not guilty in trials is proof enough that your statement is ridiculous.

 

[hyperbolic]

Can you please link to the court case, or at least the case name/number. I follow such issues pretty closely and there is no mention of said court case anywhere. It sounds like it as a state or local case, which doesn't apply outside the jurisdiction of the court.

There was a case that matches your description in 2019, however other courts have found that it violates the 4th amendment. The issue has never come before the supreme court.

I believe this is where I originally read it, and in this article they point to the case law (I’m not a lawyer).

https://medium.com/@GadgetHax/how-t...-of-your-face-id-touch-id-devices-92f66299387

…and…

How to Quickly Disable Touch ID on Your iPhone for Extra Security in a Pinch

In the US, law enforcement officials can make you unlock your smartphone with a fingerprint, but they can't force you to input a password or PIN, which would violate your Fifth Amendment rights. To help you from ever being in a scenario where you're forced to put your finger on the Touch ID...

ios.gadgethacks.com

 

[hyperbolic]

Up + Down the holding the side/lock button brings up the power menu. Exit the power menu, and now Touch ID and Face ID are disabled until you enter your password again.

Problem solved.

I wouldn’t personally attempt that, because there’s a chance they could attempt to charge you with “obstruction of justice”. I’m not a lawyer, but it seems like that might be considered obstruction… which is tragic when one is supposed to be presumed innocent and protected against illegal search & seizure…

I think the most privacy oriented approach is to not use TouchID or FaceID.

Apple should let the user set a Passcode Reauthorization Interval wherein the user gets to choose how often they need to enter their passcode to re-enable Face/Touch ID. For example 15/30/45/60/120/360/… minutes

 

[Shirasaki]

what if you're mistakenly in this situation?

What if you’re entering the country from a trip and get taken into custody by jackbooted CBP agents? Think it can’t happen to you? I know of someone who had an encounter with them who did absolutely nothing wrong and their actions were downright evil and draconian. Last thing you’d want is those freaks to now have everything that’s on your phone in their possession.

Instead of trying to think about ways to not use FaceID and TouchID, gather support and vote for a better government, or create loud enough noise collectively and see if the law can be changed for the better.

Im not saying Apple's implementation is no longer necessary. Im saying when you are being accused, wrongly or not, law enforcement can always find a way to bypass any security feature in mind, including passcode, to gather the data you need, whether you compell or not, unless there's legal precedent that personal belongings cannot be seized and inspected without sufficient proof.

In short, you hold your phone, and this passcode thing would not be a concern. You don't hold the phone, even if FaceID and TouchID are disabled, LE will always find a way in, at an appropriate cost.

As for bad guys? Just use the trick mentioned a few times above. Should be enough to solve the problem.

 

[ManuCH]

NOT! I’m not sure where you live, but in the United States people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and they are inherently protected against illegal search & seizure.

The mere fact that people are found not guilty in trials is proof enough that your statement is ridiculous.

I'm confused: if people are presumed innocent until proven guilty (I sure hope so!), then why is the whole thing with FaceID problematic? Especially if you're protected against illegal search & seizure?

Anyway, I live in Switzerland and I can assure you that nobody from law enforcement will grab my phone from my hands, and they will also never force me to use FaceID. I believe in our justice systems, and cases where people get convicted unjustly are extremely rare. Of course I know other countries are different.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I'm confused: if people are presumed innocent until proven guilty (I sure hope so!), then why is the whole thing with FaceID problematic? Especially if you're protected against illegal search & seizure?

Because law enforcement has a long history of taking shortcuts whenever they have the opportunity.
Not all countries have Swiss policemen (which, on the other hand, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that's a different story).
I don't foresee this ever happening to me in Romania, either. Or in any other EU country for that matter. But law enforcement works a bit differently in other countries. Every precaution matters.

 

[addamas]

Hold Power down + power until phone vibrate and shows power menu.
Disables touch / Face ID.

Nobody have rights to get your private data without court.

 

[Sorinut]

I'm confused: if people are presumed innocent until proven guilty (I sure hope so!), then why is the whole thing with FaceID problematic? Especially if you're protected against illegal search & seizure?

Anyway, I live in Switzerland and I can assure you that nobody from law enforcement will grab my phone from my hands, and they will also never force me to use FaceID. I believe in our justice systems, and cases where people get convicted unjustly are extremely rare. Of course I know other countries are different.

It's not the US; most laws are handled at the sate and local level, and will be different as soon as you cross the state line. The case that the original poster is referring to was from 2019 in Illinois, and it doesn't affect anyone outside it's jurisdiction. Courts in other areas have found that it violates the 4th amendment, and refuse to allow the evidence into the court case if it's acquired from a forced entry into a phone.

The US is more akin to the EU than a single country. Each state has it's own laws and own rights, and even to transport people to another state to face courts requires an a state extradition.

All that said, I still don't take my chances. I haven't been stopped by an officer in over a decade, despite driving everyday, but I do cross the border into Mexico and Canada somewhat frequently. I fully disable biometrics (via settings) on my phone when I do, though I have never been asked to show my phone or even answer any questions. If I was pulled over, I would disable face id before the officer came to my car with the side-button holding bit. International border crossings are under federal jurisdiction.