Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Supermallet

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2014
1,925
2,012
People can debate endlessly about whether a resolution is "high" or not. (Is 4K high? Or does it have to be 8k to be high?)

CDs were designed by audio engineers to be "high resolution."

There will always be some difference between digital and analog things (think a beautifully shot Kubrick film versus a "high resolution" digitally recorded movie today). Likewise, there *is* a difference between CDs and vinyl, at least to a significant number of people's ears.

BUT, the compact disc format was designed to be high resolution, taking over 44,000 individual snapshots of an audio signal *each second* and recording them. Do you think your ear can resolve and process more than 44,000 sounds per second ? (it cannot). The "problem" with CD sound is not its resolution (sampling frequency). It's just something inherent in the digital vs audio world that won't be solved by taking 100,000 or 1,000,000 samples each second. The digital reproduction will always sound different than an analog audio (which is how our ears here). And likewise an analog recording is always going to sound different than audio you hear live, unrecorded.

Calling something "high" resolution or not is a bit arbitrary. But CDs were designed by audio engineers to be high resolution, and there is a reason 16-bit audio is the standard. With all the computing advancements, it would be very easy to have 32-bit audio as a standard, and wouldn't cost much more today. But it isn't done (despite such devices existing for niche purchasers). Why? Because there is no need to sample more frequently than the 44,000 / sec which engineers already defined as sufficient to reproduce sounds digitally based on the Nyquist theorem.

Or to quote the following:


So calling a CD low resolution doesn't really make sense. And "raising" its resolution isn't going to do anything meaningful to the audio.

TL;DR CD quality is the digital standard. If you want something better try vinyl or go to a live concert
From Wikipedia: The Recording Industry Association of America(RIAA), in cooperation with the Consumer Electronics Association, DEG: The Digital Entertainment Group, and The Recording Academy Producers & Engineers Wing, formulated the following definition of high-resolution audio in June 2014: "lossless audio capable of reproducing the full spectrum of sound from recordings which have been mastered from better than CD quality (48 kHz/20-bit or higher) music sources which represent what the artists, producers and engineers originally intended."[3] Previously, the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) in March 2014 and the Japan Audio Society (JAS) in June 2014 published definitions, requiring at least 96 kHz/24-bit with the inclusion that a “Listening evaluation process is required by each applicant.”

I was referring to high resolution using these industry definitions, which specifically state that for something to be labeled high resolution, it must be “better than CD quality.” I certainly agree that CDs sound fantastic and the existence of hi-res doesn’t make CDs obsolete or unnecessary.
 

AlexJaye

macrumors 6502
Jul 13, 2010
439
695
Spotify is great for finding new music and suggestions it offers which are particularly good.


That said, I can't wait to cancel them. I can absolutely see them also somehow using this as an excuse to raise the fee for people who don't want the lossless option.
 

svish

macrumors G3
Nov 25, 2017
9,797
25,709
Would have been good if it was available along with the standard subscription. Hopefully the price of the add on will not be high.
 

Richu

macrumors member
Apr 23, 2021
79
139
Psst... you can still buy music either as a download or on physical media.

In fact, vinyl record sales have been increase for years... 17 years straight. 2023 was one of its strongest. Often times there's a digital download of the album with the vinyl record purchase.





View attachment 2368862
Yeah it’s a growing market, but you have to put those numbers alongside the numbers of the other mediums. Despite LPs growth, it is likely minuscule in comparison.

Also if you would plot out LP on a longer timescale (100 years) it would probably be dwarfed by its early years, when adjusted for inflation
 

mcilwraith

macrumors member
Oct 1, 2016
98
251
Glasgow
funny people saying vinyl is better than CD. I grew up with vinyl. scratches, jumps, blips. gets worn down. rubbish! CD was a revelation!! streaming digital is just fine now. 100 million songs in my pocket!!
 

spicynujac

macrumors 6502
May 24, 2012
254
74
I was referring to high resolution using these industry definitions, which specifically state that for something to be labeled high resolution, it must be “better than CD quality.” I certainly agree that CDs sound fantastic and the existence of hi-res doesn’t make CDs obsolete or unnecessary.
The link above goes to a 2015 story about how labels are going to start producing music with a "Hi Res Music" sticker. I've never seen that icon in my life, and it appears to have failed. The article also discusses the top pusher of this new audio format is Neil Young's Pono which failed.

The point is that "high resolution" is a confusing term. And it appears that the market agrees and no one is pushing this "high resolution" music anymore.

And that very article also includes the following:

Objectively, CD quality is as good as it gets. People who think high-resolution audio is silly point out that it's impossible for anything to sound better than CD quality. The CD's 44.1 kHz sampling rate with 16-bit depth isn't some random number devised by the Philips Corporation to ruin our ears.

Without going too deeply into the sampling theory behind how they came up with those numbers, suffice it to say that to human ears 44.1/16 audio is mathematically perfect sound reproduction. The frequencies and dynamics that lie beyond might be there—but we cannot hear them.

Audio codec expert Monty Montgomery explained this at length last year when news broke about Neil Young's plans to promote 192kHz/24-bit audio. He concludes:

Why push back against 24/192? Because it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, a business model based on willful ignorance and scamming people.

My point is simply that calling a CD "not high resolution" is misleading, as it's better than anything our ears can hear. Sure, you can always make a number "higher" but then the term becomes meaningless, doesn't it? Is a million samples per second high when you could always do a billion? It's confusing to call something that is the highest digital sound our ears can hear "low resolution" and it perpetuates the fraud that the "high resolution music" people were pushing.

It would be like calling something "low volume" when it is already above the maximum volume our ears can hear.
 

Supermallet

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2014
1,925
2,012
The link above goes to a 2015 story about how labels are going to start producing music with a "Hi Res Music" sticker. I've never seen that icon in my life, and it appears to have failed. The article also discusses the top pusher of this new audio format is Neil Young's Pono which failed.

The point is that "high resolution" is a confusing term. And it appears that the market agrees and no one is pushing this "high resolution" music anymore.

And that very article also includes the following:



My point is simply that calling a CD "not high resolution" is misleading, as it's better than anything our ears can hear. Sure, you can always make a number "higher" but then the term becomes meaningless, doesn't it? Is a million samples per second high when you could always do a billion? It's confusing to call something that is the highest digital sound our ears can hear "low resolution" and it perpetuates the fraud that the "high resolution music" people were pushing.

It would be like calling something "low volume" when it is already above the maximum volume our ears can hear.
The Hi-Res sticker is used on so much hifi gear, it’s ridiculous. It’s all over the place.

Ikko-Audio-ITX01-8.jpg


24 bit audio is routinely referred to as hi-res, virtually ubiquitously. Here is the page for a hi-res sampler on HD Tracks, one of the biggest sellers of online hi-res music: https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/65d73fa87298fc1a60d47e57

Notice the Hi-res Audio logo at the top which is the same as the sticker.

Tidal, the most well known lossless streaming service after Apple Music, refers to music above red book as Hi-Res FLAC. I could go on, the term Hi-Res is common within the industry and is an agreed upon term for music with a bit depth and sample rate above CD.

The stuff in the article about CDs being all we need is editorializing and also irrelevant to the discussion of what we mean when we use the term Hi-Res audio.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1771.jpeg
    IMG_1771.jpeg
    403.7 KB · Views: 11

spicynujac

macrumors 6502
May 24, 2012
254
74
Right, 24 bit audio is dead. But enough passive aggressive editorializing :D
The interesting thing is the Hi Res audio thing is not dead!
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.