General Emailing a PDF...

[confucious]

Are you saying Pages, Dropbox etc confuse the average user? Or that average iOS users are somehow dumber than the average desktop/laptop computer user?

Err, YES!

That is why people who hate computers like the iPad, it is designed for people who don't want to know about those things, it is the first computer for people that don't like computers. The first one that just works.

That is why it is so popular.

 

[hafr]

Err, YES!

That is why people who hate computers like the iPad, it is designed for people who don't want to know about those things, it is the first computer for people that don't like computers. The first one that just works.

That is why it is so popular.

Haha, "okay". Do you think iOS devices would be less popular, had it been possible to add PDFs from iBook to an email reply?

 

[Carlanga]

Go complain to the mailbox app forum I guess

 

[confucious]

Haha, "okay". Do you think iOS devices would be less popular, had it been possible to add PDFs from iBook to an email reply?

Yes, if people can't just pick it up and use it then it would have gone the way of any other computer. As it is, it is a consumer device that Canberra used by anyone.

To you, choosing a file is simple, but to someone in their eighties that has never used a computer? To the millions of other people who don't want to know about these things! It is, IMHO, the reason for the iPad's success and the reason why people use iPads more than Android tablets even though more Android tablets are actually sold.

If you want complications buy Android, it will do all sorts of things the iPad won't - if you know what you want and are prepared to make it do what you want.

The iPad, you can pick up and use. And lots of people do.

 

[GreyOS]

Emailing a PDF...

Yes, if people can't just pick it up and use it then it would have gone the way of any other computer. As it is, it is a consumer device that Canberra used by anyone.



To you, choosing a file is simple, but to someone in their eighties that has never used a computer? To the millions of other people who don't want to know about these things! It is, IMHO, the reason for the iPad's success and the reason why people use iPads more than Android tablets even though more Android tablets are actually sold.



If you want complications buy Android, it will do all sorts of things the iPad won't - if you know what you want and are prepared to make it do what you want.



The iPad, you can pick up and use. And lots of people do.

I don't understand why an option to attach files would be so confusing. We're not talking about some in-your-face complete redesign of iOS. Just a new menu option in certain contexts which can be ignored easily. It's adding functionality without changing any existing patterns. There are lots of options in iOS that have the potential to confuse people. The good thing is you can mostly ignore them.

 

[C DM]

My guess is that 99% of users are quite happy with the existing option: 'Insert Photo or Video'.

If iOS provided yet another menu option 'Insert something else...' that could be a problem because the user would then be faced with choosing exactly what he wants to insert, and how he can make that choice. Picking a photo is easy, as they are highly visual by nature, and the phone comes with an inbuilt photo picker. One that doesn't rely on filenames that would confuse the average user.

iOS doesn't want you to know about files, even though objects may be physically stored as files somewhere, and that's unlikely to change.

iOS could provide an additional 'Insert something else' option to the menu, but in order to support that, the user would then be required to select an application type, and be able to invoke the application's 'object' selection user interface.

Say you wanted to insert a Pages document. You could pick 'Pages' in a drop down list, which would fire up Pages document selector (this would not be the same as the selector you see when you open Pages) and choose the relevant document name. Pages could in theory be redeveloped to support this.

But...

What happens when you have hundreds of apps on your device, and many possible document types? The app selector itself could be an issue, as a series of names in a list would not look good. Probably a no-go on Apple's part; that's why we have screens of icons on show when the phone starts up.

Let's plod on anyway...

Then, you would need support of all your document-centric apps to provide you with a document selector. Let's say I have an Astronomy app and I want to attach a horoscope (which happens to be represented internally as XML). Oops, 'Gimme My Future' has just let me down because it doesn't have that select-only UI that it's published as an interface. OK, 'Gimme My Future' and a million other apps do the right thing and get redeveloped....

All of this to keep 1% of users happy who want to add a document to an e-mail reply? I really really can't see it happening.

However do billions of people (many of whom are even less technically inclined than many iOS users) use webmail on computers? It's crazy that an option to attach any file would exist there and people are still somehow using those email providers and not going crazy in large groups, isn't it?

There are or at least most certainly could be ways to do it elegantly if someone spends the time actually looking into it. Saying something fairly basic like this is too complex is just a simple excuse and nothing more really.

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Err, YES!

That is why people who hate computers like the iPad, it is designed for people who don't want to know about those things, it is the first computer for people that don't like computers. The first one that just works.

That is why it is so popular.

Somehow computers are way WAY more widespread than iOS devices, and way WAY more people use email that allows for any attachments on those computers without going crazy.

 

[BaldiMac]

I don't understand why an option to attach files would be so confusing. We're not talking about some in-your-face complete redesign of iOS. Just a new menu option in certain contexts which can be ignored easily. It's adding functionality without changing any existing patterns. There are lots of options in iOS that have the potential to confuse people. The good thing is you can mostly ignore them.

Because it involves changing the whole document and security model of iOS. That said, Apple has recently shown a willingness to say "People get touchscreen UIs now. What can we add at a more complex level?"

I think the fact that Apple made a point to show that file tags sync from the Mac to iOS hints at how they intend to deal with this issue in the future.

 

[confucious]

However do billions of people (many of whom are even less technically inclined than many iOS users) use webmail on computers? It's crazy that an option to attach any file would exist there and people are still somehow using those email providers and not going crazy in large groups, isn't it?

There are or at least most certainly could be ways to do it elegantly if someone spends the time actually looking into it. Saying something fairly basic like this is too complex is just a simple excuse and nothing more really.

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Somehow computers are way WAY more widespread than iOS devices, and way WAY more people use email that allows for any attachments on those computers without going crazy.

The iPad is aimed at different people. If you want those capabilities I suggest you buy an Android device which will give people like you the flexibility you want, for a lot of people the iPad is the first device they have been able to use, they are aimed at different markets.

 

[GreyOS]

Yeah, this idea the majority of people would be freaked out by attachments is hilarious.


Also the idea that all features of iOS must be understood before iOS can be used is hilarious. I find it far more likely these mythical 80 year olds using iPads but scared of attachments would find the VPN options in Settings more confusing. Good job you don't need to know about it to use your iPad.

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Because it involves changing the whole document and security model of iOS. That said, Apple has recently shown a willingness to say "People get touchscreen UIs now. What can we add at a more complex level?"

I think the fact that Apple made a point to show that file tags sync from the Mac to iOS hints at how they intend to deal with this issue in the future.

Sorry but as long as the interface is simple enough, something Apple is certainly capable of, back end changes can't confuse a user.

 

[confucious]

Most people don't use VPN, but lots want to attach a photo. If they wanted to attach a photo and got lots of options most (non computer literate) people would get confused and give up.

 

[GreyOS]

Look, some of the document handling infrastructure, allowing apps to hold files that can be accessed etc. is there already, look at how iTunes works/worked:

Some people just want a similar view within iOS: list of apps, drilling down into their files, and a way to select those files.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Most people don't use VPN, but lots want to attach a photo. If they wanted to attach a photo and got lots of options most (non computer literate) people would get confused and give up.

I agree 100%. All I'm saying is that they should add .PDF as a file extension that the iOS devices recognize as "able to be attached".

There is a difference between simplifying and dumbing it down. We talk about iPads being able to replace laptops or that they're adequate for business use but when simple tasks like emailing PDFs or receiving zip files in email stymie the device it lays waste to the claim.

I say this because I really love my iPad and my iPhone and I wish I could use them more often in comparison to my MBP when I'm out and about, but I still need to lug the thing around because of these minor issues. I don't mind needing the MBP to make remote connections, VPN, emulate Windows software and other more "serious" tasks, but emailing files? C'mon.

 

[C DM]

The iPad is aimed at different people. If you want those capabilities I suggest you buy an Android device which will give people like you the flexibility you want, for a lot of people the iPad is the first device they have been able to use, they are aimed at different markets.

Most of the people who are using iOS for the first time have still used computers at least for some basic things. Sure, some haven't, but I don't think it can be said that most or even a huge number haven't.

 

[BaldiMac]

Yeah, this idea the majority of people would be freaked out by attachments is hilarious.

It's also a red herring. The issue isn't attachments. It's access to the file system.

Steve Jobs explained the situation before the iPhone was even released.
http://oleb.net/blog/2012/06/steve-jobs-on-the-file-system/

My guess is Apple simply wants to spend the time to develop a new and better system that avoids the complexity added by the old file system metaphors.

My bet would be that Jobs describes the basis for the solution in these remarks. An app that creates a document database optionally organized by apps or tags and other metadata. Accessible to other apps through a sheet with similar security as the photo library. (Severely limited in functionality in relation to what "everyone" hopes for, of course. )

 

[C DM]

Most people don't use VPN, but lots want to attach a photo. If they wanted to attach a photo and got lots of options most (non computer literate) people would get confused and give up.

So put an option for photos front an center as is tr case now, but add something like "More..." option that can lead to more for those that might want/need that. It's all actually simpler than figuring out ways of why something like that would bring the end of times.

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It's also a red herring. The issue isn't attachments. It's access to the file system.

Steve Jobs explained the situation before the iPhone was even released.
http://oleb.net/blog/2012/06/steve-jobs-on-the-file-system/

My guess is Apple simply wants to spend the time to develop a new and better system that avoids the complexity added by the old file system metaphors.

My bet would be that Jobs describes the basis for the solution in these remarks. An app that creates a document database optionally organized by apps or tags and other metadata. Accessible to other apps through a sheet with similar security as the photo library. (Severely limited in functionality in relation to what "everyone" hopes for, of course. )

I guess if it took 3 years to come up with copy and paste we shouldn't be surprised that after 7 years they still can't roll out something to allow for even basic attachment support beyond photos/videos.

 

[GreyOS]

Most people don't use VPN, but lots want to attach a photo. If they wanted to attach a photo and got lots of options most (non computer literate) people would get confused and give up.

I think it just requires some imagination on how it might be implemented man. Lots of potential innovative UI choices could simplify it.

How intuitive exactly is adding photos to an email within Mail now? No visible option, you have to long press, then hit the arrow to scroll across. But if you know how, that's cool. Why not make that 'insert Photos or Files'? Same list of photo albums come up, but at bottom is 'other files' or something.

I dunno man, just making it up. I really don't see how this HAS to be confusing, I think people just don't have a strong enough imagination, or are unwilling to believe some of the world's best software and UI engineers can imagine something!

 

[BaldiMac]

Sorry but as long as the interface is simple enough, something Apple is certainly capable of, back end changes can't confuse a user.

That's simply begging the point. You are assuming that if Apple did it, they would come up with a simple interface. Well, that's what they are working on!

 

[confucious]

I've always said the iPad is not a replacement for a 'proper' computer.

Where the line is drawn is debatable and I'm sure some features can be added without putting people off.

But look what MS did when they tried to produce a device with all the features people want, the Surface RT was a farce and the pro competes more with the MacBook Air than the iPad Air and is not really a consumer device.

Hopefully additions can be made without alienating the target market. The distinction is not clear cut and I'm sure will change so maybe you will get what you want. Hopefully they will be able to please most people.

 

[C DM]

That's simply begging the point. You are assuming that if Apple did it, they would come up with a simple interface. Well, that's what they are working on!

Its just around the corner...perhaps only a few more iOS versions, like only 15 or 16.

 

[GreyOS]

That's simply begging the point. You are assuming that if Apple did it, they would come up with a simple interface. Well, that's what they are working on!

Some people seemed to be arguing that they are NOT working on it (how do we know either way anyway?), that this will never happen because it's too confusing. I'm just saying these people lack imagination, it doesn't have to be confusing. A new option is not inherently scary

In my post which you replied to, I said I didn't understand why it had to be confusing; I meant to users, not to Apple developers implementing it. That's why when you brought up back end changes I didn't think that was relevant.

 

[hafr]

Yes, if people can't just pick it up and use it then it would have gone the way of any other computer. As it is, it is a consumer device that Canberra used by anyone.

To you, choosing a file is simple, but to someone in their eighties that has never used a computer? To the millions of other people who don't want to know about these things! It is, IMHO, the reason for the iPad's success and the reason why people use iPads more than Android tablets even though more Android tablets are actually sold.

If you want complications buy Android, it will do all sorts of things the iPad won't - if you know what you want and are prepared to make it do what you want.

The iPad, you can pick up and use. And lots of people do.

But these people would most likely never see this menu, even by accident. So why would it make them put down the iOS device and not pick it up again?

In what way would the possibility to add a PDF from iBook to an email make iOS devices any less of a success?

The "go android"-argument as a reply to wanting to add a very, very basic option into the stock email app is proof of lack of actual arguments.

 

[BaldiMac]

I guess if it took 3 years to come up with copy and paste we shouldn't be surprised that after 7 years they still can't roll out something to allow for even basic attachment support beyond photos/videos.

I agree with your point in principle, but the copy/paste thing is a pet peeve of mine. It was released after two years (iOS 3) in July 2009. The part that is ignored is that Android took even longer to release universal copy/paste with Gingerbread in December 2010. So, obviously, it was a more difficult issue than people want to believe.

The perceived difference comes from the fact that Google was willing to release a half finished version just so they could check it off the feature list.

 

[C DM]

Some people seemed to be arguing that they are NOT working on it (how do we know either way anyway?), that this will never happen because it's too confusing. I'm just saying these people lack imagination, it doesn't have to be confusing. A new option is not inherently scary

Look at how scary and confusing new features like notification center or control center are? They completely don't fit in with iOS 7 and would drive way too many people away from it. If someone wants features like that they should go with Android where they can get these features.

 

[hafr]

Because it involves changing the whole document and security model of iOS. That said, Apple has recently shown a willingness to say "People get touchscreen UIs now. What can we add at a more complex level?"

I think the fact that Apple made a point to show that file tags sync from the Mac to iOS hints at how they intend to deal with this issue in the future.

No, it doesn't. Allowing Mail to access a database of files located in different folders, belonging to other apps, in order to add them to an email is already present in iOS. What we want is a small continuation of that.

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The iPad is aimed at different people. If you want those capabilities I suggest you buy an Android device which will give people like you the flexibility you want, for a lot of people the iPad is the first device they have been able to use, they are aimed at different markets.

So people using Numbers, pilots, university students and so on wouldn't like iOS if they could add a PDF to an email because it would confuse them?

 

[BaldiMac]

No, it doesn't. Allowing Mail to access a database of files located in different folders, belonging to other apps, in order to add them to an email is already present in iOS. What we want is a small continuation of that.

I assume you are talking about photos and videos. They are given special privileges as trusted system libraries. Third party apps are sandboxed. There is nothing small about the changes that you suggest.