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hafr

macrumors 68030
Sep 21, 2011
2,743
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Even now the simplest way would be "insert from app" then a list off apps appear, you select Adobe Reader (for example) then select the PDF file you want to attach.
No, the simplest way would be having an option saying "insert document" and access a database displaying the files with supported file formats located in /[app]/Documents/ (the exact same way pictures, videos and music is displayed today).

So the simplest way requires rewriting iOS, iOS email client, and every single app that can be accessed. Lol.
It doesn't require rewriting either of them. It requires a small addition to iOS and the email client, nothing has to be done with the apps. "Lol."

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I guess my idea would be a user accessible download folder. Files you download still goto the app. However from that app you can export to this folder. Then apps can access this at the users discretion. "Email (or any app) would like to access 'downloads'". I don't know, there are probably some flaws in that I'm not thinking of right now.
Why? Your pictures and music are located in a whole bunch of folders, yet iOS manages to show and arrange them without problem.

Have iOS (Spotlight) scan the /[app]/Documents/ folders, the database will be synonymous to a /Downloads/ folder you're talking about.
 

hafr

macrumors 68030
Sep 21, 2011
2,743
9
I don't know. Your point is completely irrelevant to this debate.
It wasn't my point - it was yours...

No, I'm not. I'm saying that the great majority of iOS users do not want or need this functionality and any nontrivial additions to the UI would be a distraction at best for a lot of the target audience.
Pilots and university students are two examples of target audience, do you believe these two groups would be distracted and confused by being able to add a PDF to an email reply?

80 year old grandma might be - but the probability that she even knows how to add a picture to an email reply is fairly low, meaning she won't come across the setting.

And considering the amount of other, far more complicated, settings and options in iOS - your point is moot.

Because apps typically have a "Create new document' as well, for one thing. Just look at what you see when you open Pages. See that big 'Plus' icon with the words 'Create Document' below it? You want that to appear when selecting a document for linking in another app?
So removing this option would completely change the UI?

See above. Also, any app that can persist something that the user can create is fair game for being included in your grand scheme. (Please stop talking about PDFs, by the way. Your apparently favourite document format is one of but many.)
Could you please tell me the title of this thread, i.e. the topic of the discussion?

I hate to repeat myself, but images and photos are a very special case of document. As far as the average iOS user is concerned that is exactly what they are, not 'files' or anything else, but images that they can see.
Are you saying the average iOS user couldn't handle choosing the correct document in an app like iBooks, DropBox or Pages?

That is a completely spurious argument. The Settings app is not designed to be used frequently, let's say while you're replying to an email.
The options menu is hidden away and only visible when you want it, it's not disturbing anyone who doesn't care for it.

But hell, let's play your game. How about adding a setting in Settings -> Mail? An on/off switch for the possibility to add files to an email reply, being off as standard? This would, according to you, not be confusing for anyone, nor would it, according to you, change anything else.

What could you possibly have against this, without being inconsistent?

If you take the time to think about the issues involved in detail, there are actually many problems inherent in your grand vision.
There probably are a few hurdles for the programmers, but you're talking about iOS being abandoned by the majority of users due to them being so confused they wouldn't know what to do and simply put down their iOS devices and never pick them up again, should it be possible to add a PDF from iBooks to an email reply.

Do you really not see how ridiculous it is to claim the popularity of iOS devices would stand and fall with not being able to add a document to an email reply?
 

LV426

macrumors 68000
Jan 22, 2013
1,844
2,277
Pilots and university students are two examples of target audience, do you believe these two groups would be distracted and confused by being able to add a PDF to an email reply?

Frankly, yes. People who say this can be done simply and elegantly are ignoring the fact that iOS is designed to be simple to use, applications are sandboxed, and designed to manage their own documents. I imagine there are pilots who would like to have a menu option in replying to an e-mail that would allow them to automatically send their expenses along with the reply. It's not going to happen. Apple consider every addition to the UI very carefully and consider it not just on its merit but how it will affect typical users. As Mr Ive says, they throw away 1000 bad suggestions for every good one. And let third parties provide apps to cater for edge-cases.

So removing this option would completely change the UI?

Of course it would. If new UI functionality is required, e.g. provide Pages with an option to select a document that doesn't involve the option to create documents at the same time, that is by definition a change. Likewise for every other app that creates documents, with the exception of images, which also has separate create (camera) and view (photos) functionality.

Are you saying the average iOS user couldn't handle choosing the correct document in an app like iBooks, DropBox or Pages?

No. I'm saying the average user does not want their out-of-the-box Mail UI compromised by catering for severe edge-cases like the one you imagine, and Apple certainly don't want to compromise it.

The options menu is hidden away and only visible when you want it, it's not disturbing anyone who doesn't care for it.

But hell, let's play your game. How about adding a setting in Settings -> Mail? An on/off switch for the possibility to add files to an email reply, being off as standard? This would, according to you, not be confusing for anyone, nor would it, according to you, change anything else.

Whilst I personally wouldn't have a problem with that per se, I'm sure Apple would. Even the Settings app is something that is considered on its merits, and additional configuration options require a very good reason to get approved. That's why there isn't a configuration setting to colour hyperlinks green. Believe me, there are some users who think something like that would be a great idea.

What could you possibly have against this, without being inconsistent?

The option to add an arbitrary attachment is only half the matter. The issue of app and document selection, sandboxing and security remains.

There probably are a few hurdles for the programmers, but you're talking about iOS being abandoned by the majority of users due to them being so confused they wouldn't know what to do and simply put down their iOS devices and never pick them up again, should it be possible to add a PDF from iBooks to an email reply.

I'm saying nothing of the sort. There are undoubtedly very many programming hurdles, as you put it, to overcome, may of which you will be blissfully unaware. And you're doing it again, harping on about your favourite document format, PDF.

If - and it's a very big if - Apple every got round to linking documents from one app to another, other than the very user friendly example of images, there's a lot more to be considered than just catering for PDFs in iBooks.

Do you really not see how ridiculous it is to claim the popularity of iOS devices would stand and fall with not being able to add a document to an email reply?

I make no such claim.

Do yourself a favour. Get an app that does what you want.
 

hafr

macrumors 68030
Sep 21, 2011
2,743
9
Frankly, yes. People who say this can be done simply and elegantly are ignoring the fact that iOS is designed to be simple to use
Adding an option to add PDF files from iBook to an email reply would make iOS easier, not more difficult, to use for those who want to add PDF files to an email reply, and not be in the way of those who don't.

applications are sandboxed, and designed to manage their own documents.
This would not change.

I imagine there are pilots who would like to have a menu option in replying to an e-mail that would allow them to automatically send their expenses along with the reply. It's not going to happen.
How do you know that? Shall we count the things that were "not going to happen" that all of a sudden did?

Apple consider every addition to the UI very carefully and consider it not just on its merit but how it will affect typical users. As Mr Ive says, they throw away 1000 bad suggestions for every good one. And let third parties provide apps to cater for edge-cases.
Has Ive said anything about this particular matter?

Of course it would. If new UI functionality is required, e.g. provide Pages with an option to select a document that doesn't involve the option to create documents at the same time, that is by definition a change. Likewise for every other app that creates documents, with the exception of images, which also has separate create (camera) and view (photos) functionality.
You don't have to provide Pages with anything in order to have a menu looking like the one in Pages in Mail.

No. I'm saying the average user does not want their out-of-the-box Mail UI compromised by catering for severe edge-cases like the one you imagine, and Apple certainly don't want to compromise it.
Can you back either of these two claims?

I'm saying nothing of the sort. There are undoubtedly very many programming hurdles, as you put it, to overcome, may of which you will be blissfully unaware. And you're doing it again, harping on about your favourite document format, PDF.
Could you tell me the name of the thread, i.e. the topic of discussion?

Do yourself a favour. Get an app that does what you want.
Could you give me a few, or even one, example of such an app?
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,155
Emailing a PDF...

No, the simplest way would be having an option saying "insert document" and access a database displaying the files with supported file formats located in /[app]/Documents/ (the exact same way pictures, videos and music is displayed today).





It doesn't require rewriting either of them. It requires a small addition to iOS and the email client, nothing has to be done with the apps. "Lol."

----------



Why? Your pictures and music are located in a whole bunch of folders, yet iOS manages to show and arrange them without problem.



Have iOS (Spotlight) scan the /[app]/Documents/ folders, the database will be synonymous to a /Downloads/ folder you're talking about.


Apps would need rewritten (not in their entirety) because of the way iOS sandboxes apps. Not all PDF readers can send to Dropbox or email, this is in the apps coding. For example sharing between Instagram and Facebook isn't native to iOS. It was written into the apps at the app level and it wasn't always possible until both apps were coded to do so.

My "idea" is based on the premiss of not having a user accessible file system. For example you need a PDF reader to download a PDF file. You can't just download any file you like (zip file for example) without a means to use it. That seemed more apples style IMO.
 
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