EU Plans to Regulate Apple Delayed to Spring 2023 Amid Preparations to Enforce New Rules

[jlc1978]

1984 was meant to be a warning, not an instruction manual.

True, but every country regulates speech in some manner. Apple just makes it easier.

Not just Apple… the bigger more pricey App suites like Adobe will be hit hard as you can get a cracked version of the suite on the once implemented new iOS version of the “Pirate Bay.”
Only wonder if this law bleeds over to iPadOS or is the EU really concerned about devs or do they just want to unlock message encryption on iPhones?

I doubt they thought through all teh potential ramifications and just stopped at "Apple can't kep charging 30% if we do this..." You're welcome, Google, EPIC, Spotify....

 

[nastysailboat]

That's what has been forgotten; and I suspect Apple will simply change its pricing model so that things which now are bundled will be a seperaet charge, hurting small developers. I could see them say, sure, use 3rd party payments, we'll just charge for d/l's instead if you offer subscriptions and fall into certain app categories. There is no reason for Apple to underwrite EPIC's hosting for free. Alternatively, if sideloading is allowed Apple could simply say we do not host apps that can also be sideloaded.



I wonder how the privacy vs. access to data will play out. If Apple has to handover data and is not allowed to let users choose not to share it, clearly they are not liable for any privacy violations.



I suspect smal developers may get hurt as well depending on how Apple reacts.

I don’t even think apple will have to hand it over I think it will more be like apple doesn’t have it to begin with some other company will. This whole EU plan is just a way to rid citizens of privacy.

 

[djphat2000]

These two comments, while probably sarcastic, brings up some good points on sideloading. If Apple is forced to allow sideloading, enforcing laws regulating speech become much more difficult. With the Apple store, Apple acted as the gatekeeper for compliance since installing apps outside of it involved jumping through hoops.

With sideloading, the EU could no longer expect Apple to act as their gatekeeper; but will have to go directly to the developer, which in some cases may simply be beyond the EU's control. A developer outside of the EU has no reason to comply if they don't want to; and I suspect some of the more fringe ones will actually take pride in being "silenced" and use it to pump up their importance.

Their is a broader issue beyond the EU - countries such as China will probably not want sideloading to be official since they also no longer have a compliant Apple to control what their citizens can download. Given China's market is as large as the EU's you could see different iPhones for different markets; and the ability to shutdown, or enable, sideloading in software based on geolocation.



I have complete faith in our EU overlords' ability to mess this up and then claim it wasn't their fault.

This I think goes to the greater issue with how Apple has made this all work in the first place. One common device. Yes, we have different models but, no 3rd party models. Everything is controlled by Apple. So they all get equal updates no matter the carrier or place you purchase it from. It's the "same" for all intents and purposes.

Also, the store. Because it's all handled behind the scenes. The consumer has no idea what the mechanics of how all this works so uniformly across the globe (this goes for developers too of course). And more importantly don't have to care about it. And remains as secure as it is. As there is really only one way into the device/iOS.

Now, these governments want to break this up for their local regions. So different rules for the EU compared to Asia and US and so on. This quickly becomes a complicated mess for Apple to even want to bother dealing with. Yes, they have the ability to figure it out. But is it "worth" figuring it out? Are the EU rules so ridged and nonsensical that they would rather sell them a different device/iOS entirely? Or make the same changes in the EU all over the world? Can that even work since each region is going to be different? Different requirements in South Korea vs China, vs US and so on. In my view, it's no longer the same iOS/iPadOS. It's full on macOS, which at present isn't made for iPhones/iPads. So, yet another version of this to better suit these devices.. Not something done overnight.

Apple never wanted it to be complicated, they are the best at making things NOT complicated in the tech space. People like to argue that it's about the money for them, but it's not all about the money. Yes they have to make a profit this isn't free work or a charity. They have to return value to the shareholders and they should be allowed to do so. Forcing them to alter how the system they built works is to me very unfair. And these rules limit in my view any future inovation within the platform. It's moving to a more social benefit, which isn't to say not a good thing at times. But, why does Apple have to benefit Meta? I don't think that makes sense.

Apple has made their mark with a product that was never cheap or meant to be widely available to every common denominator. They built a separate eco-system from what everyone else was doing. It wasn't meant to be the only thing out there. Just by price alone it would never be the dominate platform. Or a monopoly. If you think about all the competition Apple was up against when this started. How they made it this far is rather remarkable. Direct competition with Microsofts already available Windows CE on a variety of mobile devices/PDA's/phones. Blackberry, arguably the most popular in the business world and, even among users that did not need such a device. Nokia, world wide popularity. Sony/Ericssson, Motorola? I mean, how did this work it's way to Apple and Google? And Apple was not looking to be the most popular. They didn't price it to be for sure. They just made it easy for the consumer to use, and WORK.

I have no idea how this will work out well. From what I see here. This is going to be a mess. Apple will not give the EU exactly what it wants, it's already proving that in the Netherlands. And I don't personally want them to give them an inch either.

 

[Danfango]

I have some advice for the EU governing bodies. Design your own smartphone from scratch with your own OS and leave Apple the heck alone. Cripes. They obviously know so much about what the people of Europe want and need; wants and needs that aren’t being fulfilled by Apple.

Europe will never have a technology empire. It is impossible to build moonshot class products in the EU due to a combination of regulatory, taxation, import rules, low supply of raw materials and the absolute terrible nature of European supply chain businesses. I know, I have actually tried. My only option was to build out in China because it's close to the source and the supply chain is tight then get screwed for import and local taxation.

Also people in Europe (I am from Europe for ref) have absolutely no interest in actually doing anything, merely looking like they're doing stuff.

There will never be a European originated Google, Apple or Microsoft.

Some case studies on the consumer side of things (their professional stuff is fine):

Firstly, Philips:

1. Have absolutely zero innovation capability.
2. Buy up every little independent electronics company across Europe
3. Screw them up with bureaucracy.
4. Sell them all to China at a cut rate.
5. Realise you have no business left and start rebranding Chinese crap.
6. Set up a large cartel for price fixing with other manufacturers.
7. Get fined to death.
8. Limp along failing to innovate reshipping Chinese junk.

Secondly, Nokia:

1. Reship the same product in a different shape every 6 months.
2. Laugh at the new guy on the block and say he's an idiot.
3. Drop so far behind the new guy that you need to sell out to an American corp to innovate.
4. Get dropped by the American corp because they turn out to be a schizophrenic crapfest.
5. Use what is left of your brand name to reship Chinese junk.

 

[rme]

There will never be a European originated Google, Apple or Microsoft.

They had the Quaero search engine (Latin for "I seek"(..a bailout)) in 2005. The EU dropped 250 million into that black hole. In 2013 governments didn't want to put more money in and they went bust.

 

[Danfango]

They had the Quaero search engine (Latin for "I seek"(..a bailout)) in 2005. The EU dropped 250 million into that black hole. In 2013 governments didn't want to put more money in and they went bust.

The funny thing is I have never heard of that. Wonder why they went under ?

 

[_Spinn_]

One of the more recent additions to the DMA is the requirement to make messaging, voice-calling, and video-calling services interoperable. The interoperability rules theoretically mean that Meta apps like WhatsApp or Messenger could request to interoperate with Apple's iMessage framework, and Apple would be forced to comply.

This is a double-edged sword here. On the one hand it will be nice to use one app to talk to anyone on any platform. On the other hand iMessage security will only be as strong as the weakest app you are communicating with. Plus not all apps support the same features so the user experience will have to fallback to the lowest common denominator of shared experiences.

This whole thing just feels like government overreach.

 

[nastysailboat]

The EU loves to regulate/ban things. Where would we be without the Nanny State? SOME regulation is NEEDED. However, bodies like this don't seem to know when to stop.

They’re just in it for the money

 

[vipergts2207]

No it does not. They’re going to force Apple to stop on a dime and reverse things create a new iOS version in a matter of days and Apple and iOS will be so horrible and full of bugs.

If only there was a way for Apple to have some kind of indication this was happening so they could start taking action now……

 

[siddavis]

I doubt they thought through all teh potential ramifications and just stopped at "Apple can't kep charging 30% if we do this..." You're welcome, Google, EPIC, Spotify....

They never do and are never accountable for the negative consequences.

 

[CE3]

If companies like Microsoft, Sony, Facebook, Google, etc.. are thinking these sweeping regulations won’t set a legal precedent that impacts their ways of doing business too: They better start Thinking Different™ real soon.

The EU (& US) may intend to single out Apple, but the dominos are going to fall on many others too.

 

[bigboy29]

I can see how EU bureaucracy is excited about increase of bureaucracy.

This next chapter is exciting. It means a lot of concrete preparations. It's about setting up new structures within the Commission, pooling resources... based on relevant experience. It's about hiring staff. It's about preparing the IT systems. It's about drafting further legal texts on procedures or notification forms. Our teams are currently busy with all these preparations and we're aiming to come forward with the new structures very soon.

 

[M3gatron]

Europe will never have a technology empire. It is impossible to build moonshot class products in the EU due to a combination of regulatory, taxation, import rules, low supply of raw materials and the absolute terrible nature of European supply chain businesses. I know, I have actually tried. My only option was to build out in China because it's close to the source and the supply chain is tight then get screwed for import and local taxation.

Also people in Europe (I am from Europe for ref) have absolutely no interest in actually doing anything, merely looking like they're doing stuff.

There will never be a European originated Google, Apple or Microsoft.

Some case studies on the consumer side of things (their professional stuff is fine):

Firstly, Philips:

1. Have absolutely zero innovation capability.
2. Buy up every little independent electronics company across Europe
3. Screw them up with bureaucracy.
4. Sell them all to China at a cut rate.
5. Realise you have no business left and start rebranding Chinese crap.
6. Set up a large cartel for price fixing with other manufacturers.
7. Get fined to death.
8. Limp along failing to innovate reshipping Chinese junk.

Secondly, Nokia:

1. Reship the same product in a different shape every 6 months.
2. Laugh at the new guy on the block and say he's an idiot.
3. Drop so far behind the new guy that you need to sell out to an American corp to innovate.
4. Get dropped by the American corp because they turn out to be a schizophrenic crapfest.
5. Use what is left of your brand name to reship Chinese junk.

Isn't Nokia the top 5G equipment supplier for the US? Together with Ericsson of course.
Also regarding the impossibility of "moonshot class products" to be built in the EU you should take a look at ASML.
Anyway its amusing how apple defenders constantly try to tie EU's technological prowess to not regulating certain aspects that also affect Apple.

And things are just easier and cheaper to built in China, just ask Apple, which is basically dependent on Chinese manufacturing and supply chain capabilities.

 

[CosmoCopus]

Do what we say or we will take millions from you… shouldn’t there be some kind of law against that?

Apple should tell them what they can do with their rules.

 

[emulator]

Same EU/politicans who unable to put real restriction on the ruskies. Go figure!

 

[nastysailboat]

If only there was a way for Apple to have some kind of indication this was happening so they could start taking action now……

Why when it’s not solidified yet. So many thing in government fall through. Why would apple waste the money and resources to build something they might not need. I understand some people see this as something that is inevitable but I think a good amount think this is something that should be stopped and can be. And I don’t think apple thinks it’s too late either

 

[rme]

Same EU/politicans who unable to put real restriction on the ruskies. Go figure!

Actually, there are quite a lot who've been eager for war the past 10 or so years. https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...ive-nato-stance-on-ukraine-a-1022193-amp.html
We're supposed to have forgotten all of that of course. (and fortunately for politicians, most people have)

 

[gsurf123]

The EU loves to regulate/ban things. Where would we be without the Nanny State? SOME regulation is NEEDED. However, bodies like this don't seem to know when to stop.

If you are referring to phones then there already is one: switch to Android if you do not like it.

The consumers will be the ultimate losers in this game.

 

[visualseed]

The trouble with Europe’s broad attack on U.S. tech companies is that it hurts Europe above all. Europe will never be able to regulate its way to tech competitiveness. It has to come from industry, not government. All these problems like privacy, monopoly and, above all the out-maneuvering of European companies by culture-shifting Silicon Valley companies should be solved by European startups, innovation, entrepreneurship not meddling EU commissions, politicians and judges. Sure, European elites can keep Europe as a bubble of privilege, protectionism and heavy-handed government intervention. But that won’t stop the future. It will merely remove Europe from being influential in guiding that future.

 

[The Cappy]

Ah that old dream of socialism: government controlling the means of production. Wise politicians obviously need to call the shots; they're better than the rest of us because they care so much. How many industries have been destroyed by that nonsense. Later, the state ends up saddled with all these industries they've destroyed, and then they have to figure out how to divest. In the modern age, they've hit upon that oh so delightful alternative: regulation. The politicians using the power of the state dictate all the behavior of the company, but when the company is harmed, they can just skate on by, because it's a private company.

 

[jlc1978]

Now, these governments want to break this up for their local regions. So different rules for the EU compared to Asia and US and so on. This quickly becomes a complicated mess for Apple to even want to bother dealing with. Yes, they have the ability to figure it out. But is it "worth" figuring it out? Are the EU rules so ridged and nonsensical that they would rather sell them a different device/iOS entirely? Or make the same changes in the EU all over the world? Can that even work since each region is going to be different? Different requirements in South Korea vs China, vs US and so on. In my view, it's no longer the same iOS/iPadOS. It's full on macOS, which at present isn't made for iPhones/iPads. So, yet another version of this to better suit these devices.. Not something done overnight.

Apple has customized phones for market to accommodate different cellular network frequencies and protocols. In some ways this is easier as they could do it in software and region lock the phones. Which would create a grey market that Apple would have to deal with; and upsetting customers when they discover their EU specific software can't be installed on a US phone they're getting for a warranty exchange while in the US. Want an EU phone? You'll have to go back to where you bought it.

 

[vipergts2207]

Why when it’s not solidified yet. So many thing in government fall through. Why would apple waste the money and resources to build something they might not need. I understand some people see this as something that is inevitable but I think a good amount think this is something that should be stopped and can be. And I don’t think apple thinks it’s too late either

This happens all the time in industry. Even examples specific to Apple exist. When the original iPhone was still in development the teams were working on multiple potential solutions: making the iPod into a phone, a Linux-based device, and an OS X-based device.

 

[visualseed]

This happens all the time in industry. Even examples specific to Apple exist. When the original iPhone was still in development the teams were working on multiple potential solutions: making the iPod into a phone, a Linux-based device, and an OS X-based device.

R&D and product development is a lot different than regulatory compliance. Apple is probably already working on general things that they may need in order to comply with some of the big ticket items, but even those things are not certain to be needed. Coming from the telecommunications industry I can tell you the fastest ways to go broke is to try to hedge your bets against future laws and regulations. I have seen so many industry shifting laws evaporate inches from the finish line never to be heard of again and costly out-of-the-blue legislation added to and passed in midnight sessions on unrelated bills to ever consider making contingencies anything other than generalized. When you need them, lawyers and lobbyists are much easier to find than engineers.

 

[robco74]

Ah that old dream of socialism: government controlling the means of production. Wise politicians obviously need to call the shots; they're better than the rest of us because they care so much. How many industries have been destroyed by that nonsense. Later, the state ends up saddled with all these industries they've destroyed, and then they have to figure out how to divest. In the modern age, they've hit upon that oh so delightful alternative: regulation. The politicians using the power of the state dictate all the behavior of the company, but when the company is harmed, they can just skate on by, because it's a private company.

That's communism. Socialism is the dream of labor controlling the means of production.

In any case, I take issue with fines based off of global revenue. The EU should only be able to fine companies based off of EU revenue. Governments should only be permitted to base fines off of sales/revenue in their respective jurisdiction - this includes the US.

As for Apple, and other tech companies, taking preemptive measures, that's difficult when the regulations are still in draft stage and details haven't been solidified. It's a moving target. Doing business in the EU is like battling a hydra.

 

[Danfango]

Isn't Nokia the top 5G equipment supplier for the US? Together with Ericsson of course.
Also regarding the impossibility of "moonshot class products" to be built in the EU you should take a look at ASML.
Anyway its amusing how apple defenders constantly try to tie EU's technological prowess to not regulating certain aspects that also affect Apple.

And things are just easier and cheaper to built in China, just ask Apple, which is basically dependent on Chinese manufacturing and supply chain capabilities.

ASML are slowly being replaced. They are only dominant due to a couple of technology innovations ironically from Taiwanese engineers. China is throwing a lot of people and money into immersion litho kit as are non TSMC supply chains.